Omicron-where things stand lately

[Eicca]

Until there's a better way to keep the hospitals from being overrun with dying people, the vaccine is THE thing that everyone MUST do.

Serpent on a staff.

 

[tech25]

A huge issue that's not going away is allowing politicians to run the response to COVID. In NYS there is zero consistency and a huge amount of bias which made many distrust the government and their directives. Firing Doctors and Nurses for not taking a vaccine and replacing them with unvaccinated national guardsmen is a delusional and ridiculous plan.

The CDC is clearly influenced by outsiders. It took a long time (till now) for them to admit most masks don't work. Let's not get into reusing PPE that until COVID was supposed to be thrown out after certain amount of time of airborne exposure (ie N95-meningitis). Remember, scarves are ok for healthcare workers to use?

Also how does natural immunity factor in?
I have been working in a busy ER since before COVID officially started. many of my colleagues and I never tested positive or had S/S of COVID. That's not mentioning that staff "might be" eating and drinking at workstations due to lack of breaks and shortage of staff.

 

[tech25]

I am pro vaccine. It's working. We are seeing vaccinated patients generally have better outcomes, lower mortality rates and less severe symptoms. Yes, one can still get the virus while vaccinated but it's working.

There are many questions not answered, look at Israel they are up to multiple boosters and they still have a high infection and hospitalisation rates. Why?

The vaccine mandation for healthcare while exempting federal employees and congress, hiding research and not allowing lawsuits is not going to help put this behind us.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

This sure won't help. More than $10 million in PPE was left sitting outside in the rain outside Bay Area event center. Someone needs to be held accountable for this.

 

[scout24]

Looks like the warehouse pics from Puerto Rico after the hurricane. And, outside in the weather since September? Lol. I wonder what they needed the space for that justified this equipment sitting outside.

 

[bykfixer]

Here's an article that indicates the term vaccine is changed after the covid-19 jab was invented. It helps make things a bit more accurate since nothing living or ever lived is injected. And it also notes a change in verbage to help clear up it is not a cure.
So yes it seems the covid shot is a vaccine under the new Webster definition.

Fact check: Missing context in claim that Merriam-Webster changed 'vaccine' definition

Merriam-Webster changed "immunity" to "immune response" in its definition of "vaccine" to be more scientifically accurate, the dictionary said.

www.usatoday.com

I don't disagree with the change in definition but do disagree with the hype "get the shot and the virus will POOF magically go away" (no more than the flu shot does) and the new definition confirms that. Under the old definition it would appear that previous vaccines were not a cure either but they sure did wonders to thwart a lot of bad stuff so the masses just assumed they were, much like many believe the covid shot will too.

 

[turbodog]

...

Went to get tested this morning and they turned me away because the line was too long. Everywhere else I looked was the same story or 5-7 day turnaround for results. Way to effectively manage a pandemic.
...

That's the subtle part of a pandemic... it overwhelms everything it touches.

 

[turbodog]

... If a vaccine doesn't make you immune, doesn't provide protection from getting sick for any length of time, and you can still get other people sick, why is it considered a vaccine?

Sorry... your assertions are not found in fact. Someone w/ current shots is still around 75% protected from getting latest mutation and 90% or protected against serious illness. I'll take those results any day of the week.

And we are darn fortunate that it's been as effective as it has against the various mutations.

 

[scout24]

I have no interest in arguing, but you didn't answer HOF's question. And there's been very little if any addressing the effectiveness of the shot(s) dropping off a cliff after a brief period of the effectiveness you espouse.

 

[turbodog]

I am pro vaccine. It's working. We are seeing vaccinated patients generally have better outcomes, lower mortality rates and less severe symptoms. Yes, one can still get the virus while vaccinated but it's working.

There are many questions not answered, look at Israel they are up to multiple boosters and they still have a high infection and hospitalisation rates. Why?

...

We are far enough along in this to get some more accurate data than in 2020, so describing Israel's situation as "high" paints them in an inaccurate light.

Their infection rates are slightly lower than the US, but their death rates are 1/4 of ours, give or take.

Clearly they are doing something far better than we are.

And regarding hospitalization rates between our two countries.

Number of COVID-19 patients in hospital per million

An interactive visualization from Our World in Data.

ourworldindata.org

And hospitalization rates are 1/4 of ours also.

 

[scout24]

Perhaps they are using treatments that we are discouraged or outright banned from using here because they aren't beholden to our FDA and CDC. Off to investigate!

 

[turbodog]

I have no interest in arguing, but you didn't answer HOF's question. And there's been very little if any addressing the effectiveness of the shot(s) dropping off a cliff after a brief period of the effectiveness you espouse.

A reminder that this is a complex issue. We sort of grouping all variables under one nice big umbrella. We anecdotally compare the US against this country or that country without taking even a brief glance at huge differences in the countries: data accuracy, population age, vaccine percentages, vaccine administration date, population's overall health, etc.

But to specifically answer his question... if it's made to prevent infection (and does so) and lessen breakthrough infection severity (it does so)... then what as we _supposed_ to call it? All vaccines wane over time, full stop. Do we call Tetanus vaccine a non-vaccine because it doesn't work as well after X amount of time?

Edit: and if I have to take an hour out of my day for a booster every 6 months to protect myself, others, and prevent the economy/society from collapsing... I really don't mind it.

 

[idleprocess]

I'm sympathetic to anyone who cannot be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. But at this point if working in healthcare I'm not sympathetic to the conscientious objector position.

I'm saying I'd rather have a healthy nurse or doctor treat me who has some natural immunity from already having COVID but wasn't vaccinated than one who is vaccinated and carries a resistant strain of the virus now.

That's not how that works.

Per a CDC study:

Among COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations among adults aged ≥18 years whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, the adjusted odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine who had no previous documented infection (95% confidence interval = 2.75–10.99).

Engineered immunity is markedly better than acquired immunity - something that's been confirmed in numerous studies. Having acquired immunity plus being vaccinated confers maximum immunity, but that bump from acquiring immunity is a matter of degree.

 

[scout24]

A reminder that this is a complex issue. We sort of grouping all variables under one nice big umbrella. We anecdotally compare the US against this country or that country without taking even a brief glance at huge differences in the countries: data accuracy, population age, vaccine percentages, vaccine administration date, population's overall health, etc.

But to specifically answer his question... if it's made to prevent infection (and does so) and lessen breakthrough infection severity (it does so)... then what as we _supposed_ to call it? All vaccines wane over time, full stop. Do we call Tetanus vaccine a non-vaccine because it doesn't work as well after X amount of time?

Edit: and if I have to take an hour out of my day for a booster every 6 months to protect myself, others, and prevent the economy/society from collapsing... I really don't mind it.

I'll be 54 this year, have been working with my hands my whole life. I've gotten I can't tell you how many tetanus SHOTS in my life, I have never heard it called a vaccine. By any medical professional who has ever been involved in administering it. There is a difference between a vaccine and a shot, a difference not only in function but public perception. These are not vaccines by Oxford dictionary defenition or by required repeated doses based on decreasing effectiveness over time. Same as the flu shot. It's not a flu vaccine. Smallpox? Sure. MMR? Sure. This lack of distinction, very intentional, (not on your part.) I find disingenuous. I don't think I'm alone in this. You are happily entitled to your opinion and views on this, and I think no less of anyone who holds a different point of view. I hope that point is reciprocal.

 

[turbodog]

... tetanus SHOTS in my life, I have never heard it called a vaccine. ... Smallpox? Sure. MMR? Sure. ... You are happily entitled to your opinion and views on this, and I think no less of anyone who holds a different point of view. ...

It's a tetanus vaccine, administered via 'shot'.

Vaccination is the best way to protect against tetanus

CDC recommends tetanus vaccines for people of all ages.

www.cdc.gov

Smallpox vaccine good for lifetime? No.

MMR good for lifetime? No.

We are at herd immunity for smallpox, MMR, etc... so declining efficacy is tolerable. Hot spots do happen... and with anti-vaccine activity, will increase.

When hospitals hire people they check antibody levels for MMR, etc (due to declining antibodies). If your antibodies are not at "X" level... you must get booster(s) to work there.

What is an Antibody Titer?

An antibody titer is a type of blood test that determines the presence and level (titer) of antibodies in the blood.

www.news-medical.net

These are facts, not my opinions. I'm working to keep those in check.

 

[scout24]

I can't consider anything that is down to average of 50% effectiveness in six months a vaccine. A shot? Sure. Smallpox- Effective on 95% of the population for 3-5 years (CDC) but as you say we have herd immunity here at the moment. MMR? Lifetime as per CDC if administered after 1967, but I'm sure your level checking for healthcare workers is a valid point. Tetanus? Booster at 10 years. (Also, CDC.) And I've still never heard it called a vaccine in any setting I've gotten the shot. Clinic, ER, doctor's office, etc. Semantics in this case I guess.

 

[scout24]

And sending me disparaging PM's (you know who you are) (Not turbodog, for the record.) because I have the audacity to have an opinion is pretty sad. I've cited CDC literature for my posts, sorry if it contradicts your world view. Also, thanks for clarifying your position on my final remark in post #114. Staff here is allowed, last I checked, to have their own opinions (researched, mind you.) I'm not out here being rude, condescending, nasty, or throwing false information about claiming it's gospel. Different. Opinion. Based on a lifetime of "life experience", and more than a bit of research. If that's unacceptable to you, it says more about you than it does about me. Carry on.

 

[nbp]

"Shot" is just a colloquial term or slang for any injection, like "jab" in UK English. It isn't any kind of accepted medical terminology to describe what is inside the injection, so let's not bogged down comparing a "shot" to a "vaccine" when that isn't even a comparison of two equal things. That's like comparing carbohydrates and spoons.

 

[knucklegary]

Many folks take 3 finger shots..

 

[scout24]

I've not partaken in 30 years, but that sounds enticing right about now.