P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

[Flash_25296]

maybe....indeed it is ringy and it is Orange peel too! But according to my tests with Cree OP amd smooth reflectors the original reflector still has the tightest spot...

Ok I will have to play around with it more to see.

 

[Fichtenelch]

I just wanted to say that if you purchase the Cree MC-E LED 3-Mode 410-Lumen Drop-in Module w/Copper Heatsink Base from DX plan on buying another reflector. The reflector that comes with this module creates a terrible set of rings. I purchased this as well as the Cree Q5 LED Drop-in Module (3.7V~18V Input) and when I switched reflectors the rings are virtually non-existent I also tested with my Deree CL1H OP reflector and also very good performance with no rings. If you are going to spend $24 bucks on a MC-E P60 dropin its worth the extra few bucks for a good reflector.

Got the same DX MC-E Dropin, but it's pulling only ~400 mA...So, need to change the driver...and the reflector

 

[kramer5150]

Got the same DX MC-E Dropin, but it's pulling only ~400 mA...So, need to change the driver...and the reflector

Somethings wrong if your DX-MCE is only pulling .4A. This module should draw 2.65A with an AW-IMR. IMR cells are the only way to get the 350-400L OTF. With my red Sanyo 18650 cells it draws 2.35A, those are my lowest resistance non-IMR cells. Even my highest resistance 18650 cells (Sony, Samsung, Trustfire-whites) still deliver ~1.2A.

So if you are only drawing .4A, you might want to thoroughly inspect your host and 18650 cell in addition to the DC-DC board.

 

[Fichtenelch]

Somethings wrong if your DX-MCE is only pulling .4A. This module should draw 2.65A with an AW-IMR. IMR cells are the only way to get the 350-400L OTF. With my red Sanyo 18650 cells it draws 2.35A, those are my lowest resistance non-IMR cells. Even my highest resistance 18650 cells (Sony, Samsung, Trustfire-whites) still deliver ~1.2A.

So if you are only drawing .4A, you might want to thoroughly inspect your host and 18650 cell in addition to the DC-DC board.

Already tried it with an AW Cell, also my alternate trustfire cells power my mte p7 worklight with 2.3 Amps, which is limited by the driver in this case. Battery seems not to be the problem on that MC-E Drop-in, i think more that the driver is.. When did you get your DX MC-E? Already heard of some recently done changes on these drop-ins, it's also somewhere in a thread here with the output comparison.

 

[kramer5150]

Already tried it with an AW Cell, also my alternate trustfire cells power my mte p7 worklight with 2.3 Amps, which is limited by the driver in this case. Battery seems not to be the problem on that MC-E Drop-in, i think more that the driver is.. When did you get your DX MC-E? Already heard of some recently done changes on these drop-ins, it's also somewhere in a thread here with the output comparison.

Mine is relatively old. bigchelis bought this one when they first came out. He sent it to Gary to measure and it did 397L OTF on a cold start, but dropped to 350L after 1-2 minutes. On Low it measured 150L. All testing was done with an AW-IMR. At some point the soldering cracked on this module so bigc sent it to nailbender to repair it. I bought this one from bigc a little while after that, and it has served me very well the past ~14 months in an 18650 modded 6P.

In all honesty, I don't really use it THAT much on Hi. I mainly use it at the lower 150L setting, I don't want to overheat the emitter.

Yeah DX's suppliers have been known to make un-announced changes to their product... many times for the worse

But definitely, .4A draw is way too low for this module. Sounds like you have a solid grasp on it though. I also suspect your DC-DC board is bonkos.

:thumbsup:

 

[Fichtenelch]

Mine is relatively old. bigchelis bought this one when they first came out. He sent it to Gary to measure and it did 397L OTF on a cold start, but dropped to 350L after 1-2 minutes. On Low it measured 150L. All testing was done with an AW-IMR. At some point the soldering cracked on this module so bigc sent it to nailbender to repair it. I bought this one from bigc a little while after that, and it has served me very well the past ~14 months in an 18650 modded 6P.

In all honesty, I don't really use it THAT much on Hi. I mainly use it at the lower 150L setting, I don't want to overheat the emitter.

Yeah DX's suppliers have been known to make un-announced changes to their product... many times for the worse

But definitely, .4A draw is way too low for this module. Sounds like you have a solid grasp on it though. I also suspect your DC-DC board is bonkos.

:thumbsup:

Yeah, think so...I'm going to replace it as soon as i get some 7135-circuit boards and put something over 2 amps on it...

 

[wwglen]

I just got a SureFire 6P and want to put something into it. I have a couple of the DX 11836's and the DX 17593's in some other lights but I would like somthiing with a fairly moderate output (40 Lumens) and a LONG run time.

Is there anything that meets this in a drop in? (Prefeably CHEAP).

wwglen

 

[Policetacteam]

Ok, I apologize for only having read through the first 5 pages but I'm curious why at the beginning of this thread the several examples on the Lumens Factory website there is no mention of how many lumens. I'm considering a P60drop-in from them, single mode, but I would like to know how many lumens they are outputting.

 

[Justin Case]

See MrGman's sticky with his integrated sphere measurements. The LF D26 drop-in is listed there.

 

[Flash_25296]

Got the same DX MC-E Dropin, but it's pulling only ~400 mA...So, need to change the driver...and the reflector

I received my MC-E P60 Drop in from DX on Firday Nov 6th, ordered Oct 21!

I have measured the tail cap current draw on mine with 2 freshly charged AW 18650's of the 2200 mAh variety, less than 1 year old, maybe 5-8 cycles each. The best of each is posted below.

I have used 2 P60 hosts: Dereelight CL1H V4 (DL) & Ultra Fire 504B (UF)

MC-E Results:
High: DL 1.85 A; UF 1.88 A
Low: DL .183 A; UF .187 A
Seizure mode: DL .430 A; UF .425 A

Well below the rated max current and advertised modes:
Hi (2800mA, 410LM) > Lo (1000mA, 100LM) > Strobe (1500mA, 200LM)

Perhaps the internal resistance of my batteries are the limiting factor for not achieving the advertised modes. I will try later with a bench top power supply and see what I get. My guess is they changed the driver and now the actual performance is lower then advertised.

Anyone know what driver module is in this pill? I will probably tear into it anyway but it would be nice to know ahead of time what I was looking at.

 

[kramer5150]

Since this is getting some attention, I set up this informal test to try and show how much current draw can vary depending on the cell used.

Pics...

Host: Modded 6P with a ~1 year old DX-MCE drop in.

Cells from L-R
AW-IMR (I have two on loan, but only 1 is pictured... thanks Big-C!!)
Samsung ICR18650 (Pink)
Unsure of brand (light teal)
Sanyo 18650 (red)
Panasonic 17670 (purple)

All cells freshly charged in a WF-139, measured 4.17 hot off the charger

AW-IMR #1 = 2.49A
AW-IMR #2 = 2.77A
Samsung ICR18650 (Pink) = 2.10A
Unsure of brand (light teal) = 2.05A
Sanyo 18650 (red) = 2.30A
Panasonic 17670 (purple) = 1.65A

At one point I had some blue and green Sony cells but their internal resistance was horrid.

Details of my setup...
DX:MCE - Remove the large spring. Tighten brass pill all the way down into the reflector. Wrap tightly in copper tape. These measures will help increase thermal conduction and help ensure a solid electrical contact. I generally try and use P60 hosts and modules without the large spring. if yo udo it right you can get the brass pill to bottom out firmly against the body tube. This increases thermal conductivity, and helps to reduce the possibility of an intermittent body contact.

Surefire 6P - Grind bezel down so its about 2-3 mm shorter than stock. This helps ensure a firm electrical contact between the brass pill and body tube. In the macro pic you can see a slight gap between the shoulder of the light and the bottom of the bezel. Mine has ben spun on a lathe to accept an 18650 cell.

Z41 - Stock Z41 has very low internal resistance. Its also has a very high current capacity and doesn't require current to flow through the tailcap threads. Lubed threads can be a high resistance conduction path.

Pics:twothumbs

 

[kramer5150]

I was poking around inside my 6P and I realized the glue from the copper tape gunked up the inside of the body tube. I used some iso-propyl alcohol and cleaned it off and re-measured the tailcap draw from the IMRs.

Cell #1

Cell #2
:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:

It looks like my probes are touching, but you'll have to trust me they aren't. The one thing I am not sure of is the accuracy of my meter, I have never compared it to a higher quality model.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Huh. Since I have no AW 18650 it is almost assured I'm leaving a LOT of light on the table in my two MC-E and one P7 lights.

Maybe after my job gets going good I can get some decent batteries!

 

[Winx]

Huge difference.

I got 2.8-2.9A from a fully loaded 2200mAh AW and blue Trustfire when I tested my homemade MC-E drop-in. It has Shiningbeam's low-med-high 2.5A (2.8A) driver. Download is also selling the same driver in Multisink thread.

Some old member wrote in some thread that copper tape's glue increases resistance. Maybe, but I have wrapped it around of all of my drop-ins, Dereelight 3SD, Malkoff M30, Q3 5C, MC-E and a few more. I haven't noticed anything negative. Heat transfers quickly and all of those works great. M30 draws about 1.5A(!) from a full battery so wrapping it a with copper tape wasn't a bad idea.

I was poking around inside my 6P and I realized the glue from the copper tape gunked up the inside of the body tube. I used some iso-propyl alcohol and cleaned it off and re-measured the tailcap draw from the IMRs.

Yes, same here. Some of my drop-in got loose after some of the glue "slides" off. I've thought about wrapping one round of tape more and make a tight fit again.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

I just wanted to say that if you purchase the Cree MC-E LED 3-Mode 410-Lumen Drop-in Module w/Copper Heatsink Base from DX plan on buying another reflector. The reflector that comes with this module creates a terrible set of rings. I purchased this as well as the Cree Q5 LED Drop-in Module (3.7V~18V Input) and when I switched reflectors the rings are virtually non-existent I also tested with my Deree CL1H OP reflector and also very good performance with no rings. If you are going to spend $24 bucks on a MC-E P60 dropin its worth the extra few bucks for a good reflector.

Same here, got the DX mc-e p60 dropin, and the reflector focus was horrible, couldn't tighten it more, and loosening it made it worse. Swapped reflector with solarforce reflector, got ready to adjust it for focus, noticed it was already perfect, minimal rings, minimal doughnut hole.

 

[Policetacteam]

Superdave,

From your pictures I would agree that the hotspot is much brighter on the LF R2 than than the Malkoff M60. I'm currently checking my options because I am not overly thrilled with the hot spot on my M60. Gene was great about exchanging it but I have another with the same almost hollow hot spot. I realize its just part of the Cree lottery but when you are spending good money I really don't want to buy a lottery ticket. I want to know that the spill, beam, and hot spot will look fairly uniform from one unit to the next. The build is far superior to anything else out there but I'm just not impressed with the newer M60's! I'm going to try a few Lumens FactoryD26 R2's (both smooth and OP reflectors) and see what comes of it! I will post some pictures when the two drop-ins arrive compared to the newer M60 I currently run in my weapon light. You guys be the judge.

 

[Policetacteam]

Just heard back from Lumens Factory...D26 R2 is 250 lumens out the front.

 

[kramer5150]

Just heard back from Lumens Factory...D26 R2 is 250 lumens out the front.

I doubt it does that much OTF. Factoring in refractive loss through the lens, reflective loss from reflector absorption and bezel obstruction... they would need to push the XRE to ~280 emitter lumens. Driving an XR-E that hard in a P60 drop in host would drive up emitter temperatures and decrease efficiency as a result. P60 hosts have relatively poor thermal cooling perofrmance. So even if it doe 250 OTF, they are only good for a 60-120 second cold start. After that, the output drops to the point of diminishing return and they'd be better off driving it at a lower output from the get go.

I would ask them what measurement method they used to achieve that much light, and what their drive current is for the XRE.

 

[bugsy714]

Thinking about moving from my p7 nailbender to a sst90 nailbender, anyone else made the move?

My p7 does 550 on 1Ximr and 650 on 2X primaries

 

[outersquare]

i went from 3 level regulated MC-E to single mode SST90 direct drive

when batteries new the SST90 has a hotter hotspot than the mc-e,
about the same when batteries have been used for a while.

when batteries about to die, the direct drive SST90 starts sort of flickering
the MCE just falls to the lower mode

the biggest benefit i see is the beam pattern is very smooth now, even with MOP the MCE still had the clover looking pattern.