River Rock 0.5w 2AAA

[UnknownVT]

InfidelCastro wrote: "I sure would like to, could you tell me an easy way to do this? I have a couple of multimeters. Want to be careful not to burn out the fuse."

To get the current draw of the River Rock 0.5w 2AA -

Unscrew the tailcap of the flashlight.

Set your multimeter to a range that can take at least 200mA**.

Place the negative probe on the negative end of the battery -
now touch the positive probe to the body tube end - make sure you make good contact.

The multimeter should be giving your the current draw reading.

These simple steps apply to almost any flashlight -
except ** the range chosen -
often Luxeon LED lights can and will draw 300 - 1,000mA (sometimes more for higher powered Luxeons) - so choose the range that is capable of handling those currents. If in any doubt start with the 10A scale - take the initial reading - the resolution may be too low to get enough significant digits if the reading is below about 100mA - once the initial rough reading is known - switch to the more appropriate scale/range if necessary, to get the better resolution.

Of course if you have an auto-ranging Digital MultiMeter - then you don't need to set the range - other than to make sure the current range can take the estimated current you're about to measure.

For the River Rock 0.5w 2AAA - this should be more than likely < 200mA - ie: in the range of about 60 to 120mA.

 

[UnknownVT]

Vikas Sontakke wrote: "I always use the 10A scale on my DMM. I trust those number more than the one I get at the lower range. The lower range goes upto 400mA. Also on my DMM, 10A input is different and is fuse protected. It must be lot less less load on the cicuit to use the 10A scale."

I use the 10A scale alot too - but when a current reading goes below 200mA I switch to my next scale which is 200mA.

The problem is the actual resolution using the 10A scale - 100mA is 1% of the full scale - this is about the margin of error specs for meters ie: a 1% error of the full scale of 10A is actually +/- 100mA - so the reading may well be pretty dubious, or even meaningless, as 100mA is exactly the rated 1% error
So strictly the reading is 100mA +/- 100mA -
which means it could be anywhere between 0 to 200mA......

Whereas using your 400mA scale 100mA is now 25% of the full scale and if the margin of error is still 1% then your resolution will be +/- 4mA

Vikas Sontakke wrote: "I will try to find fresh alkaline AAA and see what readings I get. Edit:- Just measured 2AAA, each no-load 1.567V, input current 120mA."

I don't doubt your reading on the 10A scale, since I also got 100mA on my 10A scale with fresh batteries.

Please just humor me and please take a reading on your 400mA scale?

Also I would like to know what you measure for the current draw for good but not fresh batteries - ie: ones that have been used - but the light still looks bright to you. Again please use the 400mA scale.

Vikas Sontakke wrote: "I am little bit concerned that your beamshots show that River Rock is approaching your Fenix. Yes, your Fenix L1 is brighter, but it does not seem to blow River Rock out of the water. Am I expecting too much from Fenix?
If it is a camera trick, can I request you to underexpose 2nd shot more? "

There is no camera trick - why on earth would I do that? :huh2:
Please read my explanation of the River Rock vs. Fenix beamshots in my preceding post #14 - the one immediately before yours.

Here on the one hand you're saying my River Rock is underperforming because of my current readings -
then the River Rock is not blown away by my Fenix L1 -
so is the River Rock all of a sudden brighter? -
or is the Fenix underperforming too?

Please make up your mind.

I do take time and effort to get my beamshots right -
I do side-by-side comparison beamshots because then the exposures are on the same shot -
to eliminate problems about different exposures, focus, framing, scale, and color balance.

and yet I am still accused of possible camera trickery.........
I can't win, can I.......

 

[InfidelCastro]

The current draw on mine (the one with the brightest hotspot) fluctuates from 115-120mA on the 200mA scale. Mostly seems to hang around 118-119mA.

I'll have to check the other one next time I get a hold of it, but I assume it's the same. Will check to make sure though.

 

[Vikas Sontakke]

I apologize if I came across as doubting your camera
skills. That was far from my mind. You have the best
beamshots in this forum, bar none.

The "camera trick" was bad choice but was not intended
as an insulting comment.

I do not have Fenix but itching to buy one. You have given
explanation about the 2AAA and Fenix comarison shots. Even
at -2 stop underexposure, 2AAA seems to be comparable to Fenix

When I compare 2AAA with either Costco 2AA or S1801 in my
house, there is NO comparison.

I will use the 400mA scale later over the weekend.
From observing my DMM, the 10A scale seem to have 10mA
resolution. I agree with you that the acuracy is probably
not as good as 10mA but the relative repeatability should
be very good. To put it another way, I do not expect 10
different readings taken on 10A scale for one specific
configuration to vary more than 10mA. Further along
the line, if S1801 is taking 500mA on the same scale, I can
be quite confident in stating that it is indeed taking 5 times
the current than the 2AAA. So for relative comparson, I
stick with the same scale.
Interestingly, couple years ago, I had opportunity to use
very expensive Fluke DMM at my work and my cheap DMM matched
the readings quite well.

Once agin, I really feel bad that you felt maligned but
I can assure you that was the furthest thing on my mind.

- Vikas

 

[UnknownVT]

Vikas Sontakke wrote: "I apologize if I came across as doubting your camera skills. That was far from my mind. You have the best
beamshots in this forum, bar none."

Hey, no problem, I wasn't angry. So don't worry about it.


Vikas Sontakke wrote: "When I compare 2AAA with either Costco 2AA or S1801 in my house, there is NO comparison."

Ah, OK, with the S1801 and Costco 2AA you have a very good idea how the Fenix is likely to perform. These are very much in the same ballpark of brightness inspite the fact the Costco has very different beam characteristics.

I find at closer distances like less than about 9feet the River Rock 0.5w 2AAA holds up quite well against the Fenix and any of the other 1w you've cited.

But go beyond 10feet or more then the 0.5w River Rock will seem to be "blown away".

Since 9feet is like standing in the middle of an average large'ish room - the 0.5w River Rock would seem to at least to hold its own against most 1w Luxeons.

BUT if you go to the end of the room and shine them right across the full length - then the 1 watters are very obviously brighter.

My beamshots are taken at short distances (9" or so) to be able to show the full side-spills on two lights - so that would be their limitation.

Vikas Sontakke wrote: "From observing my DMM, the 10A scale seem to have 10mA resolution. I agree with you that the acuracy is probably
not as good as 10mA but the relative repeatability should be very good. Further along the line, if S1801 is taking 500mA on the same scale, I can be quite confident in stating that it is indeed taking 5 times the current than the 2AAA."

You have corroboration of about 115-120mA current draw as measured by InfidelCastro the post above yours.

Like I said I also got 100mA on my 10A scale - but for some reason when I switched to the 200mA scale it read 75mA on fresh batteries - so maybe there is something wrong with my 200mA scale. I'll do some more measurements.

Just a side comment - if your S1801 draws 500mA - that's the same as my readings (obviously on the 10A scale) so it would appear that our DMM's somewhat agree.


I just posted this in the Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) thread -

It would appear that the River Rock 0.5w 2AAA might be fully regulated -
as the same light is sold under the Nuwai label -
0.5 Watt LED Flashlight (Nuwai 2AAA batteries) N2FX-TM311H - the AmondoTech.com webpage claims -
"DC/DC circuitry maintains stable light output for maximum duration, light output does not drop off like unregulated LED. "

However I just seen Roy's reply Post #10 - where his runtime plots seem to refute this.

 

[Vikas Sontakke]

Even with the Fluke DMM, I used to get very different
readings on the two scales. Does your DMM use different
physical plug for 10A? Mine does and because of the low
resistance introduced in the circuit, causes least disturbance.
I recall that once I had noticed less bright light when I
used the 400mA scale.

A while ago, Peter G of Arc had given very nice explanation
of different kind of regulation and the compromises involved
in choosing one over the other. The voltage boost circuitry
in 2AAA (or 1AAA) can be designed in such a way to minimise
the drop in the brightness agaist the battery strength. For
example, 25%drop in battery voltage might drop the voltage
supplied to LED by 15% etc.

I am eyeing Orb, Jill, Fenix, Q3, SL ProPoly but will have
to select at most one. My better half is already fed up
with my fetish and I need to choose very wisely.

- Vikas

 

[InfidelCastro]

Mine dimmed noticably after a bit of runtime. I can't imagine the light is fully regulated. I put some old used (but in better shape) batteries after the originals started to get dim and there was a good increase in brightness.

 

[UnknownVT]

InfidelCastro wrote: "Mine dimmed noticably after a bit of runtime. I can't imagine the light is fully regulated. I put some old used (but in better shape) batteries after the originals started to get dim and there was a good increase in brightness."

Yep, both you and Roy's runtime plots would indicate this is not the full regulation we know.

The River Rock 0.5w 2AAA packaging actually says:
". Regulated Circuitry
Provides Maximum Light
Output throughout Entire
Battery Life"

Whereas the TM-311H on the Shykuang page does NOT mention any regulation (Shykuang is the actual manufacturer of the light) - so it would appear that the marketing companies are claiming regulation when there is only a DC/DC step-up.

 

[UnknownVT]

Vikas Sontakke wote: "Even with the Fluke DMM, I used to get very different readings on the two scales. Does your DMM use different physical plug for 10A? Mine does and because of the low resistance introduced in the circuit, causes least disturbance."

Yes, I do have to change sockets to use the 10A scale.

My DMM can give quite different current readings between the 10A and the 200mA scales and even if this happens as you say on an expensive Fluke DMM - this still does not inspire confidence in my readings -

Here are some more readings - I used 2 pairs of alkaline AAA batteries - Duracells, and reputable supermarket own brand (Kroger) they all are in good condition and as far as I can see they all seem as bright as each other.
These are the readings on the River Rock 0.5w 2AAA without any further comments -

(A) = 10A scale
(B) = 200mA scale

2x Duracell alk AAA 1.485V + 1.484V
current = 0.06A (A) 54.6mA (B)

2x Kroger alk AAA 1.461V + 1.468V
current = 0.06A (A) 57.0mA (B)

Despite the low looking readings - this River Rock 0.5w 2AAA still looks very bright and holds up well against my Fenix, and is slightly just noticably brighter than the two Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) I have.

Click on that link to see how widely the 10A scale can differ from the 200mA scale in the readings in post #13

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

I don't have a really great multi meter but on the 200Ma scale my RR2AAA pulls ~119.5Ma which seems to be inline with what others have seen.

 

[onthebeam]

It's not my cup of tea but is only $9 this week on sale. . .

 

[UnknownVT]

PlayboyJoeShmoe wrote: "I don't have a really great multi meter but on the 200Ma scale my RR2AAA pulls ~119.5Ma which seems to be inline with what others have seen."

That very much seems to be the case - thank you for your input.

Just about everyone is getting about 100-120mA current draw out of their River Rock 0.5w 2AAA - and I am at a loss to be able to explain why mine only draws now less than 60mA.

The batteries are in very good condition - they have not had anywhere near their max runtime use probably less than 1hour total. I used two sets - and by my eyes the RR 0.5w looks bright and definitely within expectations, and I do a lot of side-by-side comparisons using known reference and similar flashlights.

I know I am not deluding myself as half the current draw should mean about half the brightness - mine is definitely not that dim.

OK so the only other thing that could cause this discreprency is my DMM - it's only a cheapo and the way there is a difference between the 10A and 200mA scales does not inspire confidence in me. But up to this point and flashlight all my readings have been more or less in line with other people's on the same flashlights - there are obviously going to be some small % difference - but NOT to the magnitude of 2X.

Not only that I just checked my RR 0.5w 2AAA against my old analog Russian multimeter that I do know is accurate - and I got the same under 60mA reading on both the 600 and 60mA scales......

So what's going on?

 

[Kryosphinx]

That might also explain why the 1AAA version is about as bright as the 2AAA version. IIRC, the 1AAA is much dimmer than the 2AAA.

 

[InfidelCastro]

Not only that I just checked my RR 0.5w 2AAA against my old analog Russian multimeter that I do know is accurate - and I got the same under 60mA reading on both the 600 and 60mA scales......

So what's going on?

Do you have a variable probe? Maybe it's set to X.5 or 2X? Have you tried different connectors?

 

[UnknownVT]

Kryosphinx wrote: "That might also explain why the 1AAA version is about as bright as the 2AAA version. IIRC, the 1AAA is much dimmer than the 2AAA."

Sounds like it - from the other reviews -

LED Museum -

Nuwai TM-310H 0.5W 1xAAA Flashlight 55,600mcd

Nuwai TM-310H 0.5W 1xAAA Flashlight 238,000mcd

FlashlightReviews -

Nuwai 0.5 Watt TM-310H
Throw (Lux) ~ 71 at beam center. (8.42 equivalent)
Overall Output ~ 285 (2.85 equivalent) ~ 285 (2.85 equivalent)

Nuwai 0.5 Watt TM-311H
Throw (Lux) ~ 147 at beam center. (12.12 equivalent)
Overall Output ~ 700 (7.00 equivalent)

Thanks for pointing this out.

I'll have to take the flashlight back for exchange, then and see if the replacement is is any brighter and different in current draw.

 

[InfidelCastro]

In case anyone is interested, I just tested the current draw of my Mini-mag with Night-Ize 3 LED conversion I bought from Target awhile back. It draws approximately 200mA compared to the >120mA of the River Rock.

200mA is also the same current draw of my 1AAA Mag Solitaire with the standard incandescent bulb.