ROAR of the Pelican (CR123 Explosion during use, firsthand account)

[tvodrd]

Icebreak, Thank you for doing the experiment! (I've been consternating over the result for a couple days!) I am also consternating over window glass "shrapnel" including enough H2F to result in a "chemical-exposure" injury. I am also curious as to the term "cryogenic sodium." All the "emitted/ignited" hydrogen theories(sp) neglect the Hindenburg disaster. H2 simply burns at 1 Atm- doesen't go "boom" except when confined, as in a room. The volume of O2 available in an O-ring-sealed flashlight, IMO, isn't sufficient when combined stoicometrically(sp) with H2, and ignited to produce sufficient overpressure to dissassemble much. I've done "flame and vents," and have no doubt they would be capable of explosively dissassembling an O-ring-sealed aluminum flashlight! This is an other unfortunate incident involving lithium call technology, be it primary or rechargeable. We need to get a scientific handle on what can go down, and how to avoid/mitigate it's recurrance!

Larry

 

[Lunarmodule]

I would like to propose, as others have, that this issue is not exclusive to Pelican PM6 lights or Battery Station batteries. The PM6 has been highly suggested as a dang good light with a great warranty. (I don't like the non-tactile switch) Battery Station is a highly favored vendor. Statistically it is not surprising to me that we see ~3:1 ratio of reported PM6 to other manufacturer's CR123 driven flashlight failures at CPF. However, that's just my initial take. Hopefully we will see a definitive answer.

It's possible that this is one of the most useful and informative threads that has ever been posted. All of us have some expertise in flashlight technology. Many members are expert in defined trades, disciplines, professions and sciences that relate to flashlight engineering. I've learned quite a bit from this discussion.

I would like to encourage all relative questions, proposals and theories. Speculation is good. Or as I like to call it, "logical analysis of the sequence of events presented".

PLUS ONE on those words, the second sentence highlighted is the reason I'm glad it happened, especially that I have the benefit of first hand experience with this "demon" . I lingered over the Pelican M6 exploding thread many months ago, it gave me the willies, but ultimately I concluded "this happened to a light in storage in a cupboard. there was no one present at the time of combustion. that saw exactly what happened, no one knows for certain what batteries were involved, except that they were not the same (a giant no no, battery safety 101 stuff). Until I hear about someone saying "yeah, MY light actually "vented with flame" I have to regard this as a fluke. What happened to me is also a very isolated incident, but I take great solace in the fact that I observed this phenomenon and could report it immediately after it occurred.''


Very well said, Icebreak~~~~ CHEERS


Learning from this was the basis of my decision to post this account here,

 

[bwaites]

The LA incident involved alkaline cells, at least that's what the LA news station that I pulled the report from said. I kept that file for a while, but when I upgraded computers it got lost. Here is the best info that I currently have on it, but they were C cells, so the alkaline theory is probably accurate:

http://www.batteriesdigest.com/id396.htm

It's entirely possible that the Army issue was one of those "urban legends" kinds of stories, but my brother in law says they were fairly common place, or at least the stories were.

As far as that goes, Costco sold a pair of 123 lights 2 or 3 Christmases ago, and they ended up being recalled because of batteries exploding:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/dorcy.html

And Browning Flashlights:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/browning.html

A fairly quick search of the Web turns up this story in a blog, it's especially interesting because the light was not in use at the time and was a Japanese built light:

http://www.xanga.com/Cr0c0?nextdate=5/28/2006+23:58:38.060&direction=n

And in a non-rechargeable battery pack for an automatic defibrillator:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face9939.html

Sometimes stuff happens because of a chain of events that cannot be replicated. We may never know.

BUT...other manufacturers HAVE had the problem, too.

As far as the military, it will be interesting to see if they come up with any data for us!

I'm just glad that Steve is getting better, in reality, we can figure out the issue with the light at our leisure. If you are uncomfortable with the PM6, by all means ship it to me!

Bill

 

[frisco]

Hey Lunar,

Thanks for takin one for the team !!!!! OK... I gotta word this right..... I'm glad this happened to you (did that sound right?) What I mean is I'm glad it happened to a guy like you who will open this up for study and discussion with the sole purpose of learning, sharing and improving. Gives a chance for everybody (manufacture to end users) to learn more about stored energy, good and bad. We are all surrounded by batteries in general everyday life and as time goes on these batteries keep getting stonger and more dangerous.
I truly believe that your accident and injuries will stimulate accelerated studies on battery safety.

Mahalo, frisco

 

[Alloy Addict]

I can't write anything here that hasn't already been written, but I'm glad you're okay Lunarmodule.

:twothumbs to Lunarmodule for not playing the blame game, and to batterystation for the replacements and concern.

If I understand, this isn't much of a problem with single cell lights. Could it happen though? I keep looking at my Fenix P1 and wondering where the gases could possibly vent. I'll just make sure that I change the battery as soon as it goes out of regulation and starts to dim.

 

[snakebite]

Snakebite,

Kevin of Batterystation already did a controlled test to simulate the spring winding around the outside of the nub and could not produce a short. That was eliminated as a possible cause. .

not what i said.failure of the insulater in the crimp was my theory.this bypasses the ptc and alows a dead short with no protection.

 

[dirtie]

hey i also wish ya well. what a terrible thing to have happen..i am a newbie..my only flashlite so far is a sf e2 executive. when i first got it .it was in my front rt pocket.awhile later i felt a hot warmth there , and removed from pocket wow it was really hot.almost too hot to handle..i have noticed that if i run too long it will get warm.i shut down right away. is this normal?.

 

[batterystation]

Steve,
Please try the email again today. I turned off the filter on this new DSL system and think I should see it. Not sure why it is not making it. We are preparing (glasses, etc.) to do a few attempted explosions etc. I am sincerely greatful that Steve is doing better and rest assured, this has affected us here in positive ways. I still feel bad that this happened. Also, I am not sure I see an order for you but just need to get this tester and light off to you Monday via Express Mail as requested. Absolutely no charge!!!

On another note, I was just looking at some of the tests that we planned to attempt today and a few are identical to the UL testing such as heat and crush and vibration testing. Just because something passes UL approval does not mean everything is perfect, but they do a pretty good job and it is not a cheap process either. This is what makes us lean more toward attempting to get something to happen IN a flashlight.

 

[paxxus]

I've read this thread with interest (while keeping a nervous eye on my two new CR123A based lights) and I really hope that Lunarmodule is feeling better now - what a weird thing to happen :huh:.

What I don't understand though is the debate over whether to suspect the PM6 or not. Focusing only on CPF, and it's safe to assume that the number of lights owned by CPF members represent a more than adequate statistical basis. As I understand it three Pelican lights have failed in this way, now assuming that every 10th of all multi CR123A cell lights owned by CPF members is a PM6 we should expect about 30 similar failures of other lights. However, as i understand it only 1 or maybe two has been reported (again only focusing on CPF member owned lights). The probability of that happening is slightly more that 1 out of 1000. Given how many different lights that is out there I would guess that less that every 10th muli CR123A light is in fact a PM6, which makes the probability even smaller. For example, if only every 25th light owned by all CPF members is a PM6 the probability is less than 1 in 10000.

In other words: the probability that the PM6 is *not* more susceptible to these catastrophic failures than other lights appears to be very very slim.

To me everything points to the PM6. I'm new to these forums so I feel that I'm missing something here, maybe more than half of all multi CR123A lights are indeed a PM6?

 

[MikeF]

hey i also wish ya well. what a terrible thing to have happen..i am a newbie..my only flashlite so far is a sf e2 executive. when i first got it .it was in my front rt pocket.awhile later i felt a hot warmth there , and removed from pocket wow it was really hot.almost too hot to handle..i have noticed that if i run too long it will get warm.i shut down right away. is this normal?.

Dirtie, this is quite common with high power flashlights. I have been carrying SF lights in my pocket since I bought my first P6 when it was still made by Laser Products, probably around 1983(?). I melted the case on my alarm clickie for my car alarm before I noticed the P6 was on. Even with LED flashlights you can get that burn. I EDC a TW4 (KL4 w/E1E body) and a LionCub, and if they get switched on eventually you will definitely know it!

:lolsign:

 

[bwaites]

There were at least 5 incidents of the Spyder, and at least 2 of the Browning.

Neither light has anywhere near the market penetration of the PM6.

You simply cannot draw conclusions based upon the tiny cluster of problems that we on CPF have seen.

Bill

 

[chevrofreak]

batterystation, maybe you could trade StoneDog some new cells for whatever he has left of the old batch. It could be something in that specific batch that's causing it.

 

[batterystation]

I would be willing to trade any suspect batteries, but I must point out that there are no links to any particular date codes indicating any trouble. We routinely test 10 out of 1000. That is ten out of a case. We are now testing every cell. The ZTS tester does in fact seem to be a very good way to at least insure that cells are "matched" for use in multicell lights. No success yet today in attempting to cause an explosion. They just keep dying out quietly even when mixing brands fresh and dead.

Edit: We are using two cameras to both film in mpg and still shots of anything that might go astray during these tests.

 

[dyyys1]

If the first explosion was from the battery closest to the bezel, why did the glass lens shatter on the second explosions from a battery that was farther away? Also, I would like to second the question by Minjin:

For those of us that don't have a PM6, can someone explain how the explosion blew out the front lens when the lamp assembly held its seal? I'm just not understanding where the air went. Thanks.

 

[recalled]

Re: ROAR of the Pelican (CR123 Explosion during use, underwear change required)

I have never been that concerned about the danger of using batteries of different type, brand, charge or chemistry in multi cells lights until this incident.

What an eye opener!

I agree. I have heard safety mentions of "always use the same battery" and "don't mix old and new" and such, but typically dismissed this as a way of selling more batteries. That has now changed, if for no more than benefit of doubt safety...


- recalled

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

mabe the glass was weakened by the first battery and shattered with the shockwave from the second.

regards.

 

[dyyys1]

By the way, batterystation, if it wouldn't be way too much trouble I think it would be very informative for you to film the tests. If you do induce an explosion, then seeing it on film might help CPF users help you figure out what's going on.

 

[Topper]

I would guess that the lens was compromised when the light was dropped a small crack maybe? That might cause it to be more likely to blow out when the second cell vented. Just a guess.
Topper

 

[Brighteyez]

I think you'll find that Costco was not one of the stores listed in the link that you posted regarding the recall. The Dorcy Spyders that were sold through Costco were packaged with Duracell batteries, not the Fuji/A&T Fuji's cited in the 2004 recall.

On another note though, it seems that Costco tracks everything you buy through the front registers and will use that information to notify you by letter if something that you have purchased has been recalled. Received one of those letters a few months ago regarding some canned items that had been recalled.

As far as that goes, Costco sold a pair of 123 lights 2 or 3 Christmases ago, and they ended up being recalled because of batteries exploding:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/dorcy.html

 

[bwaites]

Good point Brighteyez, and I misstated what I intended.

I simply meant that a light that had also been sold by Costco had been recalled.

As you mentioned, the Costco version I saw had Duracells, but the lights were the same.

Although, Costco sometimes buys from 3rd parties. I was told by a reliable DeWalt insider that DeWalt tools were intially bought through a distributor and Costco was not an authorized dealer. That may not be true at this point, though.

Bill