kaichu dento
Flashaholic
This too.
Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight
- Thread starter ddaniel
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archimedes
Flashaholic
Ok, OP has asked for advice here .... Let's all try to participate constructively, please.
iamlucky13
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Hi Daniel, I will be very interested to see what your company produces. Good luck with this project.
Hopefully the many different suggestions you're getting here are not too confusing. Each of us has different ideas about the perfect light, but I think between what we say here, and seeing what other companies have had success with, you'll be able to come up with a useful light.
My first thought is that your specialty seems to be the LED's themselves, not the products that use LED's. Have you tried partnering with existing flashlight manufacturers to have them produce lights with your LED in it?
For example, Lumintop and Manker seem like companies who are willing to partner with others in the lighting world to make special edition lights. Singfire has also worked with members of Budgetlightforum.com to create a very simple, 1 mode flashlight that is very affordable, using the Nichia 219B series LED - referred to as a BLF-348 light. I think some members might similarly be interested in a "Yuji-348."
I also once wrote to Fenix suggesting they make a version of their low power E01 light with your BC-series 5mm LED in it, because the E01 is a popular low power emergency light, but they apparently did not think my idea was very interesting. Perhaps a proposal from your company explaining the excellent lighting quality of your product would interest them?
With that said, if you prefer to create a light independent of other companies, from what I know of your product line, I think a light powered by a single AAA battery is a very sensible starting point, since your 3030 series is a symmetrical product with a power rating similar to other 1xAAA lights.
I currently have a 1 x AAA light using a 5mm LED that I installed one of your BC series LED's in. Because it is probably only around 8 lumens and that is spread out over a very wide beam, I use it only in very low light situations but it has a very pleasant, comforting light quality none of my other lights matches. It produces a very wide beam of light, but if I had a flashlight that produced in the 50-100 lumen range, I could use it in more situations. A light with a reflector or refractive optic that focused the beam into a slightly tighter angle would also help make it more versatile to me.
Two or three modes would be great and probably help make the light more popular, but if you don't want to commit to that in your first product, I understand.
As you have probably seen, the most popular format is an aluminum body with control either by twisting the head, or using a mechanical tail switch.
Thanks for taking our input!
Hopefully the many different suggestions you're getting here are not too confusing. Each of us has different ideas about the perfect light, but I think between what we say here, and seeing what other companies have had success with, you'll be able to come up with a useful light.
My first thought is that your specialty seems to be the LED's themselves, not the products that use LED's. Have you tried partnering with existing flashlight manufacturers to have them produce lights with your LED in it?
For example, Lumintop and Manker seem like companies who are willing to partner with others in the lighting world to make special edition lights. Singfire has also worked with members of Budgetlightforum.com to create a very simple, 1 mode flashlight that is very affordable, using the Nichia 219B series LED - referred to as a BLF-348 light. I think some members might similarly be interested in a "Yuji-348."
I also once wrote to Fenix suggesting they make a version of their low power E01 light with your BC-series 5mm LED in it, because the E01 is a popular low power emergency light, but they apparently did not think my idea was very interesting. Perhaps a proposal from your company explaining the excellent lighting quality of your product would interest them?
With that said, if you prefer to create a light independent of other companies, from what I know of your product line, I think a light powered by a single AAA battery is a very sensible starting point, since your 3030 series is a symmetrical product with a power rating similar to other 1xAAA lights.
I currently have a 1 x AAA light using a 5mm LED that I installed one of your BC series LED's in. Because it is probably only around 8 lumens and that is spread out over a very wide beam, I use it only in very low light situations but it has a very pleasant, comforting light quality none of my other lights matches. It produces a very wide beam of light, but if I had a flashlight that produced in the 50-100 lumen range, I could use it in more situations. A light with a reflector or refractive optic that focused the beam into a slightly tighter angle would also help make it more versatile to me.
Two or three modes would be great and probably help make the light more popular, but if you don't want to commit to that in your first product, I understand.
As you have probably seen, the most popular format is an aluminum body with control either by twisting the head, or using a mechanical tail switch.
Thanks for taking our input!
twistedraven
Flashlight Enthusiast
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Around 300 lumens for 2 hours powered by an 18650 with constant regulation would be ideal.
Low around 1-2 lumens
Medium round 40 lumens
High around 300 lumuns.
If the high can't achieve 300 lumens, at least make the 3 brightness levels appear to equally spread apart in subjective brightness, so something like:
1 lumen
15 lumen
150 lumen
Low around 1-2 lumens
Medium round 40 lumens
High around 300 lumuns.
If the high can't achieve 300 lumens, at least make the 3 brightness levels appear to equally spread apart in subjective brightness, so something like:
1 lumen
15 lumen
150 lumen
markr6
Flashaholic
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I like that. And no fancy gimmicks or extras (strobe, usb charging, window breaker, unicorn deterrent, etc.) Just a simple L-M-H cycle with instant access to low and high (or just low at the very least). SHORT (1 second) reset time.
U should be careful about 1 thing here
All of us wants the best UI and everyone of us have different Definition of ( perfect User Interface UI )
The best UI On the planet is ( User Programable ) and that's what everyone here wants ( the power of choosing light output on the start ) So please think about this very carefully..
All of us wants the best UI and everyone of us have different Definition of ( perfect User Interface UI )
The best UI On the planet is ( User Programable ) and that's what everyone here wants ( the power of choosing light output on the start ) So please think about this very carefully..
markr6
Flashaholic
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Yea we will never all agree on the perfect UI since that changes from person to person. But there are some out there that simply don't make sense and I'd love to omit those from the start. I won't even mention them since those are probably the perfect UI to others.
iamlucky13
Flashlight Enthusiast
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I would venture to say low, medium, high, with a reverse clicky switch is probably the most popular interface, even though I know of several users here who don't like that sequence, and some keychain users who prefer twisty heads, but it's probably an irrelevant discussion since Daniel said they were not sure they can do a multi-mode light for their first product.
Since single-mode lights aren't as popular, that's why I suggested trying to partner with a company that has existing lights. In particular, I think an Lumintop Tool with a Yuji 3030 LED would be interesting (even better if programmed with Low, medium, high interface). I assume a couple small changes would be needed, but how radical could they be? Different MCPCB with the proper solder pad? Maybe a different reflector shape?
Yuji doesn't have a small, square emitter than can produce 300 lumens. Their 3030 LED is rated for about 90 lumens in the 4000 Kelvin version. To get higher output would require multiple emitters, or else an unusual LED size for a flashlight.
Since single-mode lights aren't as popular, that's why I suggested trying to partner with a company that has existing lights. In particular, I think an Lumintop Tool with a Yuji 3030 LED would be interesting (even better if programmed with Low, medium, high interface). I assume a couple small changes would be needed, but how radical could they be? Different MCPCB with the proper solder pad? Maybe a different reflector shape?
Yuji doesn't have a small, square emitter than can produce 300 lumens. Their 3030 LED is rated for about 90 lumens in the 4000 Kelvin version. To get higher output would require multiple emitters, or else an unusual LED size for a flashlight.
ssanasisredna
Enlightened
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This was my original suggestion. I can't see why Yuji would want to compete with their own potential customers. This is not an Apple/Google Pixel deal where the technology investment is enormous as are the volumes.
Zebralight has said in the past that they will not use Nichia, it is doubtful they would try Yuji, partly because ZL is about serious brightness capability in a small package. Imalent?.. Manker maybe. What about Mountain Electronics? Aren't there are quite a few overseas companies that will put your name on a host, build the engine you spec and let you distribute it? Or build the engine in-house. Isn't that what Skylumen did some years back?
Medical personnel could definitely use a HI CRI to examine mouth color, etc. Electricians and communications folks could use good color rendering to distinguish colored wires. Those of us who would like to check how done the food is on the barbeque. Others like us just prefer not to be distracted with dingy illumination trying to find a keyhole or a dropped baby pacifier in a movie theatre. None of these tasks (and many more) require more than 90 lumens or so.
Who knows if maybe someone at Yuji has some idea that is not a repeat of a Lumintop (which has accidental activation issues for some of us) but more like a smaller, lighter Manker LAD that has double click maximum, single click gives efficient medium, and click hold to get fraction of a lumen. Use the same rechargeable battery as the LAD or similar.
The new Ultratac A5 is interesting for a AAA flashlight. It needs something like a Yuji emitter although once again, like the user interface wars, some of us would much prefer what Yuji can do with a 5600K excellent color rendering LED (The 5mm Yuji 5600K emitter is in a modified Photon pinch light residing on my key chain this very moment)
Even Yuji doing something with a COB LED putting out ~1000 lumens would be interesting indeed. Single mode? Sure!
Medical personnel could definitely use a HI CRI to examine mouth color, etc. Electricians and communications folks could use good color rendering to distinguish colored wires. Those of us who would like to check how done the food is on the barbeque. Others like us just prefer not to be distracted with dingy illumination trying to find a keyhole or a dropped baby pacifier in a movie theatre. None of these tasks (and many more) require more than 90 lumens or so.
Who knows if maybe someone at Yuji has some idea that is not a repeat of a Lumintop (which has accidental activation issues for some of us) but more like a smaller, lighter Manker LAD that has double click maximum, single click gives efficient medium, and click hold to get fraction of a lumen. Use the same rechargeable battery as the LAD or similar.
The new Ultratac A5 is interesting for a AAA flashlight. It needs something like a Yuji emitter although once again, like the user interface wars, some of us would much prefer what Yuji can do with a 5600K excellent color rendering LED (The 5mm Yuji 5600K emitter is in a modified Photon pinch light residing on my key chain this very moment)
Even Yuji doing something with a COB LED putting out ~1000 lumens would be interesting indeed. Single mode? Sure!
twistedraven
Flashlight Enthusiast
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If it's only a 90 lumen emitter, sounds like we'd need a triple optic. Source it to Mtn Electronics or somebody. I personally would prefer an optic with a more concentrated hotspot as opposed to the overly diffused ones.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
Two more points I fully agree with!
brickbat
Enlightened
Forget it.
Focus your efforts on establishing a US-based distributor for your LEDs.
Think Digikey or Mouser.
i have seen lights with domeless 3030 in a reflector that did fairly well.
i thought it would be nice to use the yuji leds to mod things.
but the barrier to entry being high means that we fall back to what is tried and true.
if these leds could be obtained easily i bet you would see a lot of mods and customs using them.then you would already have insight as to what works well.
you might post at budgetlightforum.com too
i thought it would be nice to use the yuji leds to mod things.
but the barrier to entry being high means that we fall back to what is tried and true.
if these leds could be obtained easily i bet you would see a lot of mods and customs using them.then you would already have insight as to what works well.
you might post at budgetlightforum.com too
Best of luck for your endeavor !
I suggest you to keep the size of flashlight small so that it do not cover the area, but instead works for what it meant to be. Flashlights are for decorative purpose and it should not show2 itself but illuminate others.
I suggest you to keep the size of flashlight small so that it do not cover the area, but instead works for what it meant to be. Flashlights are for decorative purpose and it should not show2 itself but illuminate others.
Sadly the market for high-CRI flashlights is fairly limited. Most people only care about brightness. I'd love to see Olight make lights with high-CRI emitters.
On the other hand, there is a big market for video continuous lights with high CRI, and a panel like the Manfrotto Spectra will feature hundreds of LEDs:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1032915-REG/manfrotto_mls1x1s_1x1_led_daylight_5600k.html
On the other hand, there is a big market for video continuous lights with high CRI, and a panel like the Manfrotto Spectra will feature hundreds of LEDs:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1032915-REG/manfrotto_mls1x1s_1x1_led_daylight_5600k.html
BloodLust
Enlightened
This! Would love a high CRI dedicated headlamp and a triple angle light.
degarb
Flashlight Enthusiast
Another chirp from me: just occurred to me where we all need high cri edc, but are now limping by with subpar leds : INDOORS WITH OUR POCKET CAMERA PHONES!!
Christmas mornings, birthdays, selfies-all-need a better led on phone, and a high power, tiny, pocket able, high cri flood that we could carry around, until this gets built in, or just to augment. Pure flood, so you could save $20 on the optics.
As a high cri agnostic, lacking proof that high cri helps me see subtle color variations when using or color matching, after 12 years and thousands of tests, including 150 close shades charts on one page, the improvement of high cri in camera was certain. Human made cameras are 100 cri optimized, and less able to adjust than human eye.
Christmas mornings, birthdays, selfies-all-need a better led on phone, and a high power, tiny, pocket able, high cri flood that we could carry around, until this gets built in, or just to augment. Pure flood, so you could save $20 on the optics.
As a high cri agnostic, lacking proof that high cri helps me see subtle color variations when using or color matching, after 12 years and thousands of tests, including 150 close shades charts on one page, the improvement of high cri in camera was certain. Human made cameras are 100 cri optimized, and less able to adjust than human eye.
Last edited:
ssanasisredna
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No not really. Cameras can do just fine with <100 CRI, even with fairly poor CRI, though somewhat flat spectrum helps. Biggest issues are monitor calibration, trade-offs in the RGB pattern demosaicing, differences between capture filters and display spectrums, etc. Trying to catch the subtlety of color with only three broadband sensors results in trade-offs, though in theory if the capture and display have the same spectral characteristics, you can get very close. You are adding in narrow band reflectance issues of the objects you are viewing/etc.
As opposed to high-cri, dual white point LEDs systems are being used which creates more data points.
Most people are happier with colors that are more saturated than reality and would pick those almost always anyway when it comes to photography.
neutralwhite
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'll Consider an aaa 4000k and an 18650 5600k!.
Im in!.
Love to Yuji!.
Im in!.
Love to Yuji!.
