Surefire Cree L1 owners with issues

[JNewell]

Too bad about the dealer.

If you're not in a hurry, definitely send it back. But phone them, don't email. And, I always get best results if my approach is "I had such high expectations, is there anything you can do to help?" rather than "you guys are jerks, your product is ____ and your customer service is laughable," which seems to be the line some like to take.

 

[IanH83]

I've just been to the SureFire website and in the last day or so it has changed... where it used to say get the L1 from a retailer, it now allows you to add it to your cart and buy it on the SureFire site. Either they have decided to start selling faulty lights on their own site, or they have fixed the problem, or they are taking orders but not sending them.

 

[IanH83]

God I have to stay off that SureFire site, I felt the urge to buy another light.

I managed to resist as I would rather wait for another leap in the technology before buying such an expensive light.

 

[luminata]

Sorry to hear you have become an L1 Cree dud member Ian. :shakehead

Things are definitely even more complicated for you being overseas.

Great advice from Jnnewell!! Definitely dont call them jerks and such !!!! There are many, many , some lurk amongst CPF who seem to think this approach is the best way to get results .
Also a couple more points of advice
1) When you do call/email please limit yourself to one question only .. more can be taken as pestering a person already extremely busy processing repair requests. Also , do not waste your one question with any thing like "will you be testing my light for the non-existant problem some have been having , before you return it to me?" This question will either be ignored completely or the response will be "this is the first I have heard of it" and then you will be out of questions.
2) Be prepared to wait. and wait. and wait. After about 1 and 1/2 months when you havnt seen or heard a thing you can by then safely call again and not be seen as a pest . They will either tell you it's still in the works or they have misplaced it. At this point just sit back relax and wait, and wait , and wait ... after another cpl months repeat step two again.

through it all keep cool, show respect to your SF CS Agent (cause he has you by the proverbial you know what), expect information to be inaccurate and contradictory with a little bit of attitude mixed in and above all else know that someday you will indeed have a fully functional L1 Cree in your hands (after you run a cpl expensive cr123 primaries thru it just to see if it is indeed fixed before you can trust it)
Hey , what did you expect for $150 bucks ...Perfection?

 

[JNewell]

I don't think you have to wait that long. Last time I had a part sent, they told me "if you don't have it in six days, feel free to call to check on the status." Since I'm in MA and they're in CA and ground shipping is 5 days, that meant he was estimating it'd be shipped the next day.

Granted, that ain't happ'nin' with this situation. My guess (and that's all it is) is that something got overlooked in either design or production. Sometimes things like this happen because the production people make what they think is an inconsequential departure from the original spec. Dunno. In any case, this problem could certainly involve a wait. Frustrating, but worth it, we hope.

As far as perfection goes...dunno about that either. Our most recent Ford (2003), which cost many, many times $150, has never really worked right. It's annoying, but it happens...perfection, on the other hand...seldom happens.

 

[270winchester]

I talked to them yeasterday. The CS lady told me that they are working hard to sort the issue out and should be sending the warranty repaires out next week.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

luminata, I've been following this thread for quite a while, and it is sort of unsettling to me. I understand your frustration, and believe me, I am not about to rush out and get a new Cree L1. I was initially interested in the feed back that 270winchester was inviting about the L1, but the thread has mostly been taken over by you. Maybe it is time for you to back off and just let others report their concerns about their L1's.

Bill

 

[adamr999]

luminata, I've been following this thread for quite a while, and it is sort of unsettling to me. I understand your frustration, and believe me, I am not about to rush out and get a new Cree L1. I was initially interested in the feed back that 270winchester was inviting about the L1, but the thread has mostly been taken over by you. Maybe it is time for you to back off and just let others report their concerns about their L1's.

Bill

+1

 

[afraidofdark]

Trying not to be a silent and lazy owner of a good L1 Cree so I'll post my test results: on high for 25+ minutes, strong, warm hotspot, solid as a rock.

Sure is hard trying to use the computer, with that little supernova at the corner of your peripheral vision.

Oh, details: A01857, lens every so slightly frosted.

 

[luminata]

Sorry to annoy you Billyboy and Adam.:kiss: I'll give it a rest ...for now

 

[woodfluter]

This may belong on this thread, or possibly not. Feel free to holler if not...

I had previously tested my Cree L1 for 5 minute periods with a SF cell. Tonight I tested it for 55 minutes on high continuously while running with the dogs. The results weren't quite what I expected, considering this is supposed to be regulated - but it could be a battery issue. Please inform me if you can!

Being the cheap and possibly foolish ******* that I am, I used a Battery Station lithium cell for this (starting voltage 3.6V) instead of a SF. That may be significant. Sorry for the lack of brightness readings - this started out as a simple "flicker or no flicker" test - I am a scientist after all!

(1) I was holding the light only by a lanyard attached to the clip and to the front of the light to avoid thermal issues of any sort, helpful or otherwise. I frequently checked warmth by touching the light with my lips, which are more sensitive to temperature than hands. The head section never became warmer. The battery section warmed noticeably, but never became remotely "hot". For the record, the 5 minute tests with SF batteries had the exact same thermal results.

Question: Is this a sign of very good heat dissipation by SF's engineers, drawing heat away from critical components? Certainly a very different pattern that what I've experienced with any other light. But how on earth could this square with other posters' observations like "Temperature head (max): 45 C / 113 F" and "When I shut it off, it was hot, but still possible to hold" ?? Does this mean there is something wrong with mine?

(2) During the run, the light dimmed gradually. No flickering at any point, and no step-down. I briefly tested the low beam at intervals and it appeared to be dimming gradually as well. By 29 minutes, high was getting quite dim and low was barely usable even close up. At end of test, side by side center beam comparison at a distant target showed Inova T3 was at least 4x brighter, although pre-test the Cree L1 was significantly brighter. My Luxeon L-1 on low was far brighter than the Cree on low.

Question: Although the regulation may be less than perfect on both high and low (see www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2076061&postcount=1If), should this light be dimming continuously from around 20 minutes into a test, on both high and low settings, if it is regulated at all? Or is this just a battery issue? Should I consider returning the light or testing further?

(3) Subjectively comparing in dark room, the Cree L1 on high with the used BS cell appeared only a little brighter than the low setting with either a new SF or BS cell. End voltage was 1.73V (!) After 5 minutes rest 2.66V, after 32 min 2.81 and the light was now just a little dimmer on high than the T3.

Question: Is this entirely a battery issue? Would the results have been different if I used one of my Surefire cells?

Final Question: Was this light ever intended to be used for protracted periods on high? If not, should Surefire have stated this? (For the record, I really like almost everything about this light, at least the one I have.)

Sorry for the length, and any insight is gratefully welcomed.

- Bill

 

[half-watt]

Question: Is this entirely a battery issue? Would the results have been different if I used one of my Surefire cells?

can't answer that for your particular case. i only know from observing first-hand my own experiences that batteries CAN make a world of difference. i've had runtimes as low as 50%-60% with "el-cheapo" cells (NOT a Brand name, though with the way they performed, perhaps it should have been - at least my expectations would have been lower!!!). also, i've found "el-cheap" cells seem(??? my impression based upon performance) to sometimes AGE FASTER.

it just may be that the quality of the cheaper cells is NOT as good??? meaning, that some perform rather well, but a greater percentage are substandard. don't know.

i've learned to only spend money on the best quality Primary cells whether CR123A, AA, AAA, C, D, 9V, Li coin cells, alkaline or Lithium. i've had fewer problems that way.

now, currently employ the same rule (most, not all) of the time for Li-ion cells too. only deviate when the better cells won't fit in an application.

it seems with batteries one very often gets what they pay for.

however, QB on his FLR website has some relatively good reviews of lower cost CR123A cells. there seems to be some variation in their performance based upon current draw though.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Woodfluter, I'd recommend reading some of of Quickbeam's posts on batteries. He has done some independent battery testing. He is not selling batteries and he knows what he is talking about. Personally, I prefer to see empirical tests than hear anecdotes. It can be easy to just accept the marketing. It can be very persuasive.

When a flashlight company sold a light they used to be able to sell a steady stream of replacement bulbs. Now LEDs are popular, so that cuts into the bulb sales. To make matters worse, other companies have started selling discount replacement bulbs.

Battery sales are one way for flashlight companies to make a little extra. There is nothing wrong with that. If they want to say they have great batteries and the competition makes bad ones, I say "prove it".

 

[woodfluter]

Thanks for the replies, and I know and agree with what you both said about batteries. However, and I mean this in the nicest way, I'm not sure the point of the post was understood. It boils down to this:

(a) If the light is regulated, and the initial brightness, even with an inferior battery, is the same as that with a good (e.g. Surefire cell), should you see gradual continuous dimming on both high and low, almost from the start? With my HDS EDC, I can insert the same kind of battery and the brightness at any level will remain the same. If the voltage drops too low to power one level, the next lowest level will still be powered at full brightness. That was what surprised me about the L1. It wasn't acting like that at all.

(b) Heat. If other users were saying the head was heating up, even after a few minutes, and mine wasn't heating at all, why? Comparison with other lights of known throw indicates that nothing was wrong with the output. Shorter runs on high with good Surefire cells weren't heating mine up at the head either. At all. What gives?

- Bill

 

[litlmh]

(b) Heat. If other users were saying the head was heating up, even after a few minutes, and mine wasn't heating at all, why? Comparison with other lights of known throw indicates that nothing was wrong with the output. Shorter runs on high with good Surefire cells weren't heating mine up at the head either. At all. What gives?

- Bill

Well, with my light, I haven't exactly timed it, but I remember my thoughts while trying it out. I was holding my light for the entire time while playing with it.

For the first 6-7 minutes or so, it did not feel very warm. I'm not sure if it was me holding it that warmed it up or actual heat from the light at this point. However, while still holding it, around 10 minutes into the test, I remember it felt noticeably warm, and then around 15 minutes, it felt hot, but not uncomfortably so. At this point I stopped playing with the light.

 

[woodfluter]

More the fool I. Well, I spoke a bit too soon. Just ran another test of sufficient duration with a good battery and may have partially answered my own question - sorry about that!

Room T = 83F, air still.
Battery: Surefire, slightly used, initial voltage 3.22V
Alcohol thermometer with head resting on "Caution - Hot" engraving.
2 min = 84F
4 min = 86F (continues rising 1 deg F/min until..)
14 min = 95F
16 min = 96F
18 min = 96.5F
20 min = 96.5F
Battery voltage 5 minutes after test end 2.90V

So if I run it long enough with a SF battery, it really does heat up. Plenty to measure and feel. Reaches equilibrium temperature at 13.5 degrees F above environmental temperature at around 18 minutes. No flickering or apparent dimming through a 20 minute test.

You guys are right, I think the BS batteries are just not adequate to power this light at high output. They have functioned adequately in some other lights, suffering only in the runtime category, but I think "high" on the L1 Cree must be a pretty high-drain application!

- Bill

P.S. Now I can rest easier, knowing I haven't lost in the apparent QA/QC lottery.

 

[Art Vandelay]

With the Battery station Batteries you were walking around at night. The night air from the wind, or from dangling on the lanyard would have helped cool the light.

It sounds like the Surefire battery test was done indoors, with the flashlight laying still on a table. The measurement you gave showed that even in those conditions the light did not go above body temperature.

One big advantage of the Cree LEDs is that they do not put off nearly as much heat as previous LED versions. Surefire chose to go for runtime instead of maximum brightness with the L1. It is not surprising that the light does not get that hot. If you hold it in your hand, it should not get too hot for comfort.

When you look at a runtime chart it's clear that most Surfire's don't have regulation as flat as Fenix lights. Surefire does have good regulation. I can't notice the light dimming in real life. Surefire also has more of a tail or a "moon mode" than Fenix, some people like that.

I use Battery Station batteries often. I've used them in my L4 with no problem, and the 5 Watt Surefire L4 is more demanding than the L1 Cree.

 

[woodfluter]

Thanks Art -

Info about Cree running cooler etc is very interesting. Doubtless a reflection of the efficiency. I am one of those who doesn't mind the longer tail.

Yes, dangling from the lanyard the air could have cooled it, but that night air was around 82F also. I left it on after I got home, and felt it again before I shut it off and tested voltage. It couldn't just be cooling - it was like nothing.

And the light dimmed continuously, from the start, with the Battery Station cell. Just like it was a completely unregulated light working with an alkaline cell, nothing like the high and low L1-Cree runtime curves shown by someone on this list.

I still think it was the battery, pending better experiments, if I ever get around to that. The cell appeared to be incapable of delivering enough power on the high setting to maintain regulated levels or even to heat up the head, and when stressed that much couldn't deliver enough to even maintain regulated low. (My best guess as of now.)

Still, that doesn't fit well with your use of BS cells in the L4, does it? Unless you are like me and typically only use high-output lights or settings for brief periods. If so, maybe you never got to the point I did with this test? I doubt I would ever have occasion to leave mine on high for nearly an hour uninterrupted, and very seldom for 20 minutes. I really like this light.

I too use the Battery Station 123 cells very frequently. They are nice folks to deal with and the bulk price makes them cost-effective. This experience just leaves me uncertain about theirs being the best choice with this light if you expect to crank big lumens for a long spell.

All the best,
- Bill

 

[270winchester]

BTW Last Friday when I called at 1PM, the CS lady took the RMA and called me back within an hour and half. The 800 number is there for a reason folks.

 

[mick53]

It's something that happens when a new, innovative product hits the market.

Bologna anyone? How about a little QC? Maybe work the bugs out before foisting a defective product on the unsuspecting public.

Surefire commands rather high prices for their products, $135 for this gem. They could at least make sure they got it right before they turn it loose.

I understand customer loyalty, I do not understand blind customer loyalty.

Give their warranty a close read. You send it back, (and you pay for the shipping back) and THEY will decide it it's defective or not and THEY will decide whether to repair, replace or refund your hard earned dollars.

It doesn't matter if you're disgusted with them for releasing this product prematurely and you want to wash your hands of them. They have your money and they'll give it back IF they feel like it.

The water is circling the bowl on this greedy little company. They need to turn things around or their high flying sales will come back to earth in a year or two and then they'll slide into the choppy waters of an ocean of unsatisfied customers and drown.

If they made flashlights as well as they market them their prices might be justified.

Mike