The death of the tactical flashlight?

[peter yetman]

6P size is really too big for clipped pocket carry....

BIGGER POCKETS!

 

[Chadder]

I get what you are saying about the high lumens. I guess I missed that. I have a surefire E2O with momentary switch. I have the lumens factory single mode led drop in that runs around 300 lumens. It is perfect. I ended up putting the drop in in my original e2d and e2e also. I can run them on primaries or on 2 16340s. I then put one in my old incandescent TL2. I guess that's the answer. You have to make one yourself.

 

[recDNA]

It would help if OP described exactly what tactical means to him. Lumens, clickies etc?

 

[Brigadier]

I get what you are saying about the high lumens. I guess I missed that. I have a surefire E2O with momentary switch. I have the lumens factory single mode led drop in that runs around 300 lumens. It is perfect. I ended up putting the drop in in my original e2d and e2e also. I can run them on primaries or on 2 16340s. I then put one in my old incandescent TL2. I guess that's the answer. You have to make one yourself.

That is what it is looking like. Find and old Surfire E series and add a LED engine that isn't crazy bright.

 

[Brigadier]

It would help if OP described exactly what tactical means to him. Lumens, clickies etc?

For use in conjunction with a handgun. The proper way. Quick flash then move then flash again. On most lights, that will put you into some stupid low mode or strobe.

 

[recDNA]

For use in conjunction with a handgun. The proper way. Quick flash then move then flash again. On most lights, that will put you into some stupid low mode or strobe.

Does it require a forward clicky or a Surefire silent type push on release off or will an ordinary clicky be OK? What lumen range? I get that you want single mode,that's easy but there are other criteria. Do you want flood, throw, what? Does tint matter? The LX2 sounds great to me as a tactical option but of course it is 2 modes.

 

[Brigadier]

Does it require a forward clicky or a Surefire silent type push on release off or will an ordinary clicky be OK? What lumen range? I get that you want single mode,that's easy but there are other criteria. Do you want flood, throw, what? Does tint matter? The LX2 sounds great to me as a tactical option but of course it is 2 modes.

I have an LX2 and even though it is two modes, a hard push on the tailcap is high, every time. The only thing I don't like is the spill is very narrow....unlike my E2E.

Switch must be a forward activating switch, clicky is optional. Preferrably under 300 lumens. I nice hotspot with a wide spill. The Lumens Factory LED drop in in my E2E is ideal. But again, that is an old, discontinued light. Not a new light...and hard to replace....

 

[Tachead]

800 lumens? Really.

Ok all you try this. Wake up in the middle of the night and the house is dark. Go out into your white walled hallway, and hit a flashlight with 800-1200 lumens on high, and blind yourself........not cool.

Like I said, the true tactical flashlights are dead.

There is a low mode if needed that is safely located and not easily accidentally activated. Plus, I have done what you are saying with more lumens, that were more focused, and I was not blinded. Sure it was a bit harsh of my eyes but, not much worse then flicking the AC light on and I still was more then able to focus and maintain my situational awareness. Keep in mind too that the Tactician uses an extremely floody beam(MV) meaning it doesn't seem as bright as a more focused light and causes less glare and reflection.

You do know the Tactician is designed buy a highly experienced firearms tactics instructor and ex SWAT team leader right? His company even specializes in low light tactics. The Tactician has also been praised by many other highly experienced professionals and dimed the best improvised firearm flashlight of all time.

So, while your definition of "true tactical flashlights" may be different, many people that very likely dwarf your experience and training ten fold don't agree.

 

[Brigadier]

There is a low mode if needed that is safely located and not easily accidentally activated. Plus, I have done what you are saying with more lumens, that were more focused, and I was not blinded. Sure it was a bit harsh of my eyes but, not much worse then flicking the AC light on and I still was more then able to focus and maintain my situational awareness. Keep in mind too that the Tactician uses an extremely floody beam(MV) meaning it doesn't seem as bright as a more focused light and causes less glare and reflection.

You do know the Tactician is designed buy a highly experienced firearms tactics instructor and ex SWAT team leader right? His company even specializes in low light tactics. The Tactician has also been praised by many other highly experienced professionals and dimed the best improvised firearm flashlight of all time.

So, while your definition of "true tactical flashlights" may be different, many people that very likely dwarf your experience and training ten fold don't agree.

Well, one of the best instructors out there agrees with me that the newer lights are too much, and ruin your night vision. Of course, most of these famous tactical teachers do it wrong, too. They turn the light on and leave it on, hey, just like in the movies and on TV!!!:ironic: But if you do it right, flash and move, you are blasted with the backlash of 800+ lumens and then in the dark again, blind. That is why Surefire is coming out with Intellibeam....

 

[carrot]

That is what it is looking like. Find and old Surfire E series and add a LED engine that isn't crazy bright.

It is worth noting that LumensFactory has just begun offering their own version of the E-series body and tail switch (twisty or McClicky), and they offer an LED head that is also E-compatible, so for a pretty fair price you can get an entire, brand new E-light with a single speed, without the hassle of sourcing an old stock E-series.

I guess they are rating it at 550 lumens, but as far as I'm concerned it's not overkill and a very nice package too.

 

[Tachead]

Well, one of the best instructors out there agrees with me that the newer lights are too much, and ruin your night vision. Of course, most of these famous tactical teachers do it wrong, too. They turn the light on and leave it on, hey, just like in the movies and on TV!!!:ironic: But if you do it right, flash and move, you are blasted with the backlash of 800+ lumens and then in the dark again, blind. That is why Surefire is coming out with Intellibeam....

Which instructor is that? And, have you actually taken some training or just watched some Youtube videos?

Yes, they can be too much for certain scenarios but, generally too much is much better then not enough. And, more is better at disorienting or blinding an assailant which can be very helpful in many scenarios. You also have to keep in mind that beam profile is a big consideration too. A tightly focused beam can seam more bright and cause more glare for the user then a floody beam that is much more bright. Colour temperature has an effect on this too.

There isn't necessarily a right or wrong way to do it. It is about using the right tactics for the situation. And, the right tool as well. You also have too keep in mind that tactics are always evolving and being refined so, just because someone might have once taught you one way of doing things doesn't mean that that hasnt been improved on or even made obsolete.

The Intellibeam has been out for a while and it was actually designed more for general use lights not tactical ones. With a tactical light you want to always know what you are getting when you turn it on.

 

[recDNA]

The e2e you described will last forever anyway but nothing new is exactly the same except the lumens factory clones

 

[Tachead]

Anyway, if you want a small and pocketable single mode that is around 200-300 lumens, how about a Malkoff MDC CR123A body with a VME head and a M31 dropin? Or, if you want a momentary only tailcap, you can use a Lumens Factory E1 body and twisty tailcap instead.

Another option is the older Elzetta Alpha. It is 315 lumens and you can pick your desired style of tailcap(including momentary).

Another option is an HDS Systems EDC Executive Tactical. Just program it for momentary max only.

Another option is an Oveready Z35 with the dropin of your choosing and a momentary tailcap.

 

[Brigadier]

Which instructor is that? And, have you actually taken some training or just watched some Youtube videos?

Yes, they can be too much for certain scenarios but, generally too much is much better then not enough. And, more is better at disorienting or blinding an assailant which can be very helpful in many scenarios. You also have to keep in mind that beam profile is a big consideration too. A tightly focused beam can seam more bright and cause more glare for the user then a floody beam that is much more bright. Colour temperature has an effect on this too.

There isn't necessarily a right or wrong way to do it. It is about using the right tactics for the situation. And, the right tool as well. You also have too keep in mind that tactics are always evolving and being refined so, just because someone might have once taught you one way of doing things doesn't mean that that hasnt been improved on or even made obsolete.

The Intellibeam has been out for a while and it was actually designed more for general use lights not tactical ones. With a tactical light you want to always know what you are getting when you turn it on.

With the intellibeam, it is my understanding that it always come on full blast, but the sensor dims it according to surroundings. And yes, I have taken low light firearms training. I have simualted the training with a SureFire G2Z and P61[120 lm], E2E with LF drop in[250 lm] and with a 500 lm EB2 on the house with white walls. The 500 lm EB@ destroyed the night vision. Way to much back scatter.

 

[Tachead]

With the intellibeam, it is my understanding that it always come on full blast, but the sensor dims it according to surroundings. And yes, I have taken low light firearms training. I have simualted the training with a SureFire G2Z and P61[120 lm], E2E with LF drop in[250 lm] and with a 500 lm EB2 on the house with white walls. The 500 lm EB@ destroyed the night vision. Way to much back scatter.

Yeah, but those lower power lights(particularly the 120 lumen) would likely be inadequate to illuminate your target well enough to identify and would offer little to no blinding or disorientation abilities in a larger room. Outdoors, they would be next to useless unless very tightly focused.

Like I said, it is all about the situation and no one tactic or tool is always the right one. One thing is for certain though, most of the time more is better then less when it comes to low light tactics.

Another thing to keep in mind is your chances, as a civilian, of finding yourself in a situation with multiple armed assailants in tight quarters are very slim. And, even if you do, taking a defensive position is almost always the safest option. You call for help/backup if you can, and quietly wait for them to come to you(preferably in a room with only point of easy access). You don't go looking for them like a wannabe ninja flashing your flashlight on and off "like in the movies and on TV" as you put it.

 

[Tachead]

With the intellibeam, it is my understanding that it always come on full blast, but the sensor dims it according to surroundings. And yes, I have taken low light firearms training. I have simualted the training with a SureFire G2Z and P61[120 lm], E2E with LF drop in[250 lm] and with a 500 lm EB2 on the house with white walls. The 500 lm EB@ destroyed the night vision. Way to much back scatter.

As for Intellibeam, no tactics instructor would recommend using this. It is for general purpose uses. The last thing you need is your flashlight dimming at the most inopportune of times in a life of death situation. The technology uses a sensor to monitor the light being reflected. So, if another light is shined in your direction or your light bounces off of a reflective surface it could unexpectedly dim.

 

[xdayv]

When someone shines at you with another strong light source, the Intellibeam will adjust its output.

There are many options if you prefer lower output for your needs. Start at Malkoff & Elzetta.

Good luck!

 

[bykfixer]

The brontosaurus was everheard telling the giraffe "man they just don't make palm trees like they used to".

The giraffe responded "adapt".... "eat a bannana tree".

 

[slumber]

I don't think tactical flashlights are dead, they're just hitting puberty. [emoji12]

 

[horizonseeker]

I have to agree on the preference away from Intellibeam type of auto-adjust. I'm old fashioned enough to feel uncomfortable when that decision is taken out of my hand, especially in a "tactical" situation, or the closest I might come to it in an ordinary daily life.

The user has to be involved in these decisions, if the user is not able to accept the responsibility.....that's a different story altogether.