The Haiku: why I personally feel the 3S lights have surpassed the PD lights

[jumpstat]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

The main difference between the Haiku and PD light ( I have both the PDs and Mule PD) is the amount of time I save on maintenance. With the PD lights, there is always some sort of maintenance works that needs to be done such as relubing threads, cleaning the contacts, relubing the piston etc.. For the haiku, none. I cant really remember when was the last lube I put on the threads. In the Haiku the lube stays put. On the PDs, the lube gets everywhere. Alot of time saved. As for the 3 stage output, I now am loving it but not at first. The low on the PDs is the best IMHO, but the 3 levels on the haiku is very very useful indeed. Having seen that the McClicky is readily available and that the work involve in replacing a defect switch looks resonably easy, making the the haiku more and more desireable in my opinion. No flickering to report though.....

 

[js]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Mule and Haiku EDC'd together! WOW! I find I really only have room for one light. Ah well. But if I could EDC two comfortably, I'd go with SunDrop and Haiku! God, wouldn't it be awesome if you could have both those beams, at all three levels, in ONE light, with an easy to use UI? LOL! Sorry. Just dreaming!

 

[nbp]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Got a picture of that?

Mule and Haiku EDC'd together! WOW! I find I really only have room for one light. Ah well. But if I could EDC two comfortably, I'd go with SunDrop and Haiku! God, wouldn't it be awesome if you could have both those beams, at all three levels, in ONE light, with an easy to use UI? LOL! Sorry. Just dreaming!

You just stick 'em both on your pocket, it's easy!

 

[fyrstormer]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

The main difference between the Haiku and PD light ( I have both the PDs and Mule PD) is the amount of time I save on maintenance. With the PD lights, there is always some sort of maintenance works that needs to be done such as relubing threads, cleaning the contacts, relubing the piston etc.. For the haiku, none. I cant really remember when was the last lube I put on the threads. In the Haiku the lube stays put. On the PDs, the lube gets everywhere. Alot of time saved.

Who cares if lube gets smeared around inside the light? As long as the lube isn't leaking out and getting on the outside, it's still doing its job. The lube doesn't spread to places that aren't rubbing together, so anywhere the lube goes, it is needed.

 

[kaichu dento]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

...the Haiku and Mule pair always seem to end up clipped to my jeans together.

You just stick 'em both on your pocket, it's easy!

I think I've seen that picture before!

When you said they were clipped together I imagined them clanging around on the end of a lanyard or chain!

 

[jellydonut]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Motion to sticky this thread for future reference by people who will inevitably ask if the PD will ever be made again. The PDs are great novelty lights nowadays, but from a purely functional standpoint, the Clicky lights are better.

Some people just feel differently. Some of us plain don't like multi-level clickies. Not everyone is a round peg, some of us are square pegs and won't fit in the round hole no matter how hard you shove and/or shout at us that the round way is the better.

Anyway, I've now realized that the battle is lost. I knew it in my heart already, but this thread being stickied in this forum is pretty much the stake in the PD's heart. I will stick to my A2s, LX2 and Kroma-switch-equipped 6P. They are much less elegant and less durable than PD system lights, but I guess I won't ever see such a light for sale again.

 

[js]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Some people just feel differently. Some of us plain don't like multi-level clickies. Not everyone is a round peg, some of us are square pegs and won't fit in the round hole no matter how hard you shove and/or shout at us that the round way is the better.

Anyway, I've now realized that the battle is lost. I knew it in my heart already, but this thread being stickied in this forum is pretty much the stake in the PD's heart. I will stick to my A2s, LX2 and Kroma-switch-equipped 6P. They are much less elegant and less durable than PD system lights, but I guess I won't ever see such a light for sale again.

jellydonut,

This is maybe just a bit over-dramatic! I haven't noticed anyone shouting or shoving. On the contrary. In fact, as clearly outlined in the OP of this thread, I myself was pretty strongly against multi-level clickie lights before I experienced the Haiku, and I am STILL very strongly pro PD lights even now. And I would love it if Don did another wave of Ti-PD-S's. I definitely regret selling my Ti-PD-S, as I stated just a few posts ago. I would love to be able to own one again.

Moreover, the reality that Don is not planning on ever making more Ti-PD's has been well known and clearly stated for a while now, certainly well before this thread was stickied. And, calling this a "battle" is also a mischaracterization! Don gets the first and last say, and every say in between. It's not like a bunch of us "clickie" people got together and forced Don to stop making PD lights, shoving and shouting down you out-dated PD people!

Finally, if you want a PD light, there are a number of options. There are PD lights for sale right now as I type this, and not just on the custom ti b/s/t forum. Go buy one if that's what you want to own! More power to you! PD lights are AWESOME! I can totally understand why someone would prefer them to multi-level clickies. There's no need to polarize this issue.

 

[jellydonut]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

jellydonut,

This is maybe just a bit over-dramatic! I haven't noticed anyone shouting or shoving. On the contrary. In fact, as clearly outlined in the OP of this thread, I myself was pretty strongly against multi-level clickie lights before I experienced the Haiku, and I am STILL very strongly pro PD lights even now. And I would love it if Don did another wave of Ti-PD-S's. I definitely regret selling my Ti-PD-S, as I stated just a few posts ago. I would love to be able to own one again.

Moreover, the reality that Don is not planning on ever making more Ti-PD's has been well known and clearly stated for a while now, certainly well before this thread was stickied. And, calling this a "battle" is also a mischaracterization! Don gets the first and last say, and every say in between. It's not like a bunch of us "clickie" people got together and forced Don to stop making PD lights, shoving and shouting down you out-dated PD people!

Finally, if you want a PD light, there are a number of options. There are PD lights for sale right now as I type this, and not just on the custom ti b/s/t forum. Go buy one if that's what you want to own! More power to you! PD lights are AWESOME! I can totally understand why someone would prefer them to multi-level clickies. There's no need to polarize this issue.

It was just a play on words, a bit of a reference to earlier PD threads where those of us who tried in a civilized way to explain why we wanted PD lights were insulted and belittled for no good reason.

Anyway, yes, I do want a PD light. I do not however have the funds to spend $750 on one, nor would I want to spend that amount if I had it.

What I mean is that I want someone to make them, because the scarcity of the old PD lights plus the demand for them means we're stuck paying nearly a thousand dollars (as the price is constantly going up because of more demand and a dwindling supply) for a light with an emitter from 2004/5.

New PD lights would be equipped with XP-G's, XP-C's or even XM-L's, and be much cheaper than the collectible ones presently available.

Telling someone to buy a used light with an old emitter for $700-800 instead of a new light with a new emitter for $200-300 is not reasonable. I hope you can see that.

Anyway, I'm sorry for posting here. I'll stay out of this thread now.

 

[nbp]

Nitecore used the PD design under license from Don. Probably that's what js was referring to.

 

[js]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

jellydonut,

If Don did another run of Ti-PD with updated Cree emitters they would cost $450 each, or maybe even more. Certainly not $200-$300. If you're willing to spend $450, $700 or $750 just doesn't seem a whole lot different. And many Ti-PD's sold already have updated emitters, although I think the Seoul LED's in the Ti-PD-S's had great beams--not as good as my High CRI Haiku, but pretty darned nice none the same.

But there were also aluminum PD lights made by Don and those also come up for sale here, many of them with already updated emitters, and for a lot less than their titanium cousins. You just have to keep stalking custom and mod b/s/t and you can pick one up.

And yes, as nbp says, I was also thinking of the nitecore PD lights.

And again, I don't recall anyone being "insulted" or "belittled" in the threads I have run across. Of course, maybe I just haven't seen the posts you're talking about. In any case, it's certainly not happened here in THIS thread, so still maybe not the best rhetoric to use. But, anyway, best of luck to you! Don't give up on trying to find a PD light in your price range! They are out there. So, keep looking and don't give up hope.

 

[fyrstormer]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Some people just feel differently. Some of us plain don't like multi-level clickies. Not everyone is a round peg, some of us are square pegs and won't fit in the round hole no matter how hard you shove and/or shout at us that the round way is the better.

Anyway, I've now realized that the battle is lost. I knew it in my heart already, but this thread being stickied in this forum is pretty much the stake in the PD's heart. I will stick to my A2s, LX2 and Kroma-switch-equipped 6P. They are much less elegant and less durable than PD system lights, but I guess I won't ever see such a light for sale again.

The "battle" was lost the moment the guy who makes the lights said he didn't want to make PDs anymore. I motioned for the thread to be stickied because it explains well the reasons why the guy who makes the lights doesn't want to make PDs anymore. This has nothing to do with my personal preference, or yours, only his.

 

[McGizmo]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

The "battle" was lost the moment the guy who makes the lights said he didn't want to make PDs anymore. I motioned for the thread to be stickied because it explains well the reasons why the guy who makes the lights doesn't want to make PDs anymore. This has nothing to do with my personal preference, or yours, only his.

Although my designs are simple and not too many components involved, I am only one person with finite time available and limited resources. When the McLux T was built it was done in a wave and the only project on the table. I continued with launching waves of the Ti PD and then later the Lunasols and these were processed in waves where they were one project essentially at a time and fixed in number.

From a marketing standpoint, there is something to be said about launching a wave where interest and anticipation has been built up and a frenzy of sorts follows as the wave is launched. But I really don't like to do business this way where a potential user is faced with a snooze and lose proposition. As a consumer I resent the pressure and marketing ploy of "Better get one now while they are still available". I am sorry that there are those who would like to get a PD but they are no longer being offered. When I migrated into the McClickie 3S series of lights I wanted to both have more variety in terms of different heads and paks and LED's but also offer them in a form of standing wave where one was not compelled to decide and purchase in a short window of my choosing and in seeming competition with other would be buyers.

In order to have a number of alternatives in an ongoing offering I am forced to place limits on what those alternatives are for hopefully obvious reasons. The more modular the system is the easier it is to expand upon as well as evolve in incremental changes as we move forward.

For some reason or mistaken keyboard entry I just lost a bunch of comment I had composed but probably for the best.

Let me try to put it simply and hopefully making sense. For me to offer a PD or more involved multiple versions of a contemporary line of PD's would require me to make a choice and one in conflict with what is currently being offered. Such a choice is one I don't think would be the right one for me to make at this present point in time.

 

[easilyled]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

I think that js presented the pros and cons comparing the PDs to the 3s McClicky lights in a balanced way, sufficiently balanced in fact to make me question whether the title that he gave this thread is really appropriate!

The virtual infallibility and indestructibility of the PD mechanism combined with the simplicity of traversing the 2 levels in the same continuous momentary-on pushing or permanent-on twisting motion cannot and should not be underestimated.

I grant that 2 levels are not as versatile as 3, but if I was using the Haiku, I'd be employing either the lower or the higher level the majority of the time and seldomly the medium level.

The satisfaction derived from possession of an object with beautiful aesthetics is a completely different ball game on the other hand.

That solid Titanium piston button with the tritium in the centre slot just inspires a feeling of instant, strong attraction as opposed to the tail of the McClicky bodies, which to my mind looks somewhat unfinished and far less refined.

The concept of having the battery compartment doubling up as a solid switch to be depressed is one which I admire immensely because it is really thinking outside the box. The PD lights are refreshingly unusual as a result and a joy to own.

 

[pjandyho]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Don, what I would love to see is a PD Ti light that has a UI like this,

From off,
1) click once for low output,
2) press and hold for high from off,
3) double click for instant high output.

When on,
1) press and hold for momentary high from low,
2) click on/off again to cycle between low and high output.

That's all that I need. I think this would probably require an electronic type switch which could still be done with a PD design. Is this a feasible idea for a new light?

 

[js]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Don,

I for one really love the "standing wave" type offerings vs. the very short lived waves of the past Ti-PD's and LunaSols. I suspect that there are some here now who don't realize how nice this really is. I mean imagine waiting for weeks--WEEKS--or longer for a wave to come and then missing the 30 minute window. This is not an exaggeration either.

It would be lovely if you COULD offer all that you currently offer AND do a couple waves per year of PD lights. But if I had to chose, I'd chose what you currently offer!

 

[nbp]

Or just come up with a Ti switch cover with a trit slot that could be fitted onto the Haiku in place of the rubber boot so it looks like a PD.

I would be perfectly content with that.

Please?

 

[fyrstormer]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

...imagine waiting for weeks--WEEKS--or longer for a wave to come and then missing the 30 minute window. This is not an exaggeration either.

It would be lovely if you COULD offer all that you currently offer AND do a couple waves per year of PD lights. But if I had to chose, I'd chose what you currently offer!

YES. +1

 

[fyrstormer]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

The virtual infallibility and indestructibility of the PD mechanism combined with the simplicity of traversing the 2 levels in the same continuous momentary-on pushing or permanent-on twisting motion cannot and should not be underestimated.

Since the definition of "virtual" is "not actual", I completely agree. The exposed parts of the PD mechanism are very easy to service but they also require service. The kilroy wire wears down over time, and sometimes the solder joints fatigue a bit, both of which change the "gap" between low and high modes; the electronic switching in the 3S lights is unaffected by mechanical age. Replacing the kilroy wire requires soldering skill; replacing a McClicky switch requires essentially no skill at all. The 3S lights also have no moving seals during operation, whereas the PD lights have two. I dislike having to disassemble the 3S light engine to get at the driver, but hey, at least replacement drivers are actually available, unlike the PD lights. The 3S design is more durable and serviceable from several perspectives, even if the bits that actually do the work are pre-packaged.

 

[easilyled]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Since the definition of "virtual" is "not actual", I completely agree. The exposed parts of the PD mechanism are very easy to service but they also require service. The kilroy wire wears down over time, and sometimes the solder joints fatigue a bit, both of which change the "gap" between low and high modes; the electronic switching in the 3S lights is unaffected by mechanical age. Replacing the kilroy wire requires soldering skill; replacing a McClicky switch requires essentially no skill at all. The 3S lights also have no moving seals during operation, whereas the PD lights have two. I dislike having to disassemble the 3S light engine to get at the driver, but hey, at least replacement drivers are actually available, unlike the PD lights. The 3S design is more durable and serviceable from several perspectives, even if the bits that actually do the work are pre-packaged.

That is true.

However, I was thinking more from a point of view of which light was likely to break down first,
rather than which one is easier to service.

In this respect, if I was outdoors with no replacement parts, I would feel more confident in the robust mechanical switching of the PD. I've had McClickys fail on me but never my PDs.

 

[fyrstormer]

Re: The Haiku: why the 3S McClickie lights have surpassed the PD lights!

Fair enough. The PD mechanism *is* easier to field-strip even if the parts are harder to replace. I've never had either one fail on me; I guess I've been lucky.