We have been doing our wake up lighting all wrong.

[degarb]

Gen, http://www.yorku.ca/eye/lambdas.htm is a good link.

The take away is that there is a saturation level of the rods. As far as a predawn early morning wakeup light positioning goes, I suspect if I had two lights only, I would position them at 45 degrees off center of vision on either side of straight on, rather than totally off to either side.

The take away from the doctor, Gen, is that everyone has theories, but few test those theories. Empirical observation beats theory, every time. It amazes me, though it shouldn't by now, how certain people are about theories they never tested. I have tested many crazy things, and often (perhaps, a third of the time) got results that are the opposite of what you would expect. You just need to be careful, by researching, calculating, consulting many experts, small scale, safety measures, midscale, before full scale, especially if life or property is on the line.... The problem with the Doctor's melatonin advice, is safety has been established, but he had all kinds of opinions, without ever bothering to test. I will say, there is a huge brand difference in effectiveness. So, if one brand doesn't work, try another. Though again, melatonin alone is not enough, it needs no more than half a benedryl 1.5 hours before sleep target, to work all the time. ... Though as you say, anything that works for anything physical condition, is addictive. Asprin, included.

 

[Genzod]

. ... Though as you say, anything that works for anything physical condition, is addictive. Asprin, included.

Just to be clear, the dependence I implied wasn't of an "addictive" nature per say (as in opiates for example) but rather the tendency for the body to markedly reduce production of the naturally supplied hormone due to the disruption of the body's natural feedback mechanism when an oral one has been substituted.

 

[Genzod]

Gen, http://www.yorku.ca/eye/lambdas.htm is a good link.

Notice the ordinate axis is in log. A magnitude difference of 1 is 10x greater, and 2 is 100x greater, like the logarithmic geological Richter scale--A 9.0 quake is 10,000x more intense in amplitiude than a 5.0. Rods are far more sensitive than cones with shorter wavelength light. 1000x at 500nm where rods peak. (102.3​/10-0.7​=103​)

One might surmise the closed eye during sleep would be sensitive to small amounts of room light, particularly at 500nm. Therefore, one could use those facts to use room lighting at the appropriate time to prepare the brain for an alert rising.

Pulsed blue light at frequencies above 16-18hz would stimulate beta wave frequencies (associated with alert wakefulness) in the brain, a cup of pulsed blue photon 'coffee' if you will.

 

[StarHalo]

it needs no more than half a benedryl 1.5 hours before sleep target, to work all the time.

That's diphenhydramine bro, you're drugging yourself to sleep..

 

[Genzod]

That's diphenhydramine bro, you're drugging yourself to sleep..

"Bro", haha. You're so affectionate when you contradict.

 

[StarHalo]

"Bro", haha. You're so affectionate when you contradict.

If you're concerned about the wavelengths of light on your rods and cones affecting your sleep while dropping ZzzQuil, you're getting the "bro"..

 

[degarb]

If you're concerned about the wavelengths of light on your rods and cones affecting your sleep while dropping ZzzQuil, you're getting the "bro"..

Aaanyway, I am using 2 of my fan dimmers on two integrated driver 50 watt 6500 cold $1.50 China Led chips, in peripheral vision, as a morning, pre-dawn wake up test. As the one article states there is only so much cool light before the rods saturate, then must crank up the warm. (Though in reality, if you take a spectrometer and peek, the whole spectrum is there, just parts are louder.)

What I have learned about the $1.50 50W chips with integrated drivers, so far: Well, mounting one 50w to a 90 cubic inch of fine (counting Sq in of 1side) isn't enough to cool it, without a fan, even putting it in a shallow cookie tin, where some heat sucks to the tin. More heat from driver to dissipate, when ID. Fortunately, the integrated circuit allows monitoring of the led heat, lowering current, saving the led, perhaps. The thermal Resistors lower the current to 30 watts on my cpu heat sink cookie tin light, if left on long, as the heat builds up... Adding a few ounces of water cookie tin, tilting tin 45 degrees, so corner of back of heat sink was under water (gfci, everything electric epoxied), this little bit of water gave a 60% improvement in heat and current, allowing 48 watts, instead of 30. It took maybe 2 hour to evaporate away. I did not measure lux to see if efficiency improved... So a worklights, with a water trough, may be practical. Already have to add oil to tools at beginning of each day, buy kerosene, etc., why not add water to your light? I don't see a water trough light working around the house or in an office. Maybe as a backup Mobile worklight, where storage space and dependability (no fan, or pump, to beak) matters.

There are fan controller boards that can had for $2, which I haven't played with for a year. I will get around to looking up how many watts they can handle. I really don't like lights without a dimmer, neither power tools. This includes my headlamps. Even on the huge worklights, where I don't pay the electric and they can be moved back, there are times where for heat reasons they too need dimming.

Maybe one day, a quality 150lpw+ like Cree will have an integrated 120V driver. For now, seeing one option, which I guess is a 90 lpw epistar, probably 57 lpw after driver loss, if cooled correctly. At best... Still, looking at well over 18,000 lumens, including driver,for $10 (halogen lumen price range) -not including heat sink (which is the real price breaker).

 

[ssanasisredna]

Aaanyway, I am using 2 of my fan dimmers on two integrated driver 50 watt 6500 cold $1.50 China Led chips, in peripheral vision, as a morning, pre-dawn wake up test. As the one article states there is only so much cool light before the rods saturate, then must crank up the warm. (Though in reality, if you take a spectrometer and peek, the whole spectrum is there, just parts are louder.)

What I have learned about the $1.50 50W chips with integrated drivers, so far: Well, mounting one 50w to a 90 cubic inch of fine (counting Sq in of 1side) isn't enough to cool it, without a fan, even putting it in a shallow cookie tin, where some heat sucks to the tin. More heat from driver to dissipate, when ID. Fortunately, the integrated circuit allows monitoring of the led heat, lowering current, saving the led, perhaps. The thermal Resistors lower the current to 30 watts on my cpu heat sink cookie tin light, if left on long, as the heat builds up... Adding a few ounces of water cookie tin, tilting tin 45 degrees, so corner of back of heat sink was under water (gfci, everything electric epoxied), this little bit of water gave a 60% improvement in heat and current, allowing 48 watts, instead of 30. It took maybe 2 hour to evaporate away. I did not measure lux to see if efficiency improved... So a worklights, with a water trough, may be practical. Already have to add oil to tools at beginning of each day, buy kerosene, etc., why not add water to your light? I don't see a water trough light working around the house or in an office. Maybe as a backup Mobile worklight, where storage space and dependability (no fan, or pump, to beak) matters.

There are fan controller boards that can had for $2, which I haven't played with for a year. I will get around to looking up how many watts they can handle. I really don't like lights without a dimmer, neither power tools. This includes my headlamps. Even on the huge worklights, where I don't pay the electric and they can be moved back, there are times where for heat reasons they too need dimming.

Maybe one day, a quality 150lpw+ like Cree will have an integrated 120V driver. For now, seeing one option, which I guess is a 90 lpw epistar, probably 57 lpw after driver loss, if cooled correctly. At best... Still, looking at well over 18,000 lumens, including driver,for $10 (halogen lumen price range) -not including heat sink (which is the real price breaker).

Unless that chip with 120V driver on board has a requirement for seriously large external capacitor, then it will have seriously large flicker.

Epistar has no problem hitting 150LPW ... but they don't really make LEDs, only LED die so who knows what's in those cheap LEDs.

 

[degarb]

Unless that chip with 120V driver on board has a requirement for seriously large external capacitor, then it will have seriously large flicker.

Epistar has no problem hitting 150LPW ... but they don't really make LEDs, only LED die so who knows what's in those cheap LEDs.

I am sure there is flicker. However, I am not really noticing it. The ramping works, but as with many other dimmers I have used, there's a somewhat narrow dial range at which it works. Which is, much like all my shower heat adjustment of my life.

I brought back a third dimmer, and paired it with a 3rd 50W wake up test (2 peripheral and one overhead). However, this light is not the 120V integrated driver, rather has the typical Inline mini brick. This light only dims to, guessing, 75% before flicker becomes too obnoxious. Also, an accompanying buzz, reminiscent of florescent lighting. I haven't measured the current saving, yet... And, I believe these China yard lights off ebay do not have enough metal surface area for their wattage; so assuming the dimmer reducing heat probably outweighs any possible driver damage to the off the china shelf, 50 watt light.

I don't think the fan controller is doing anything bad to the $1.50 ID 50w chip from ebay.

 

[degarb]

Interestingly, as the brick driver warms up, the fan controller induced buzzing abates, allowing lower dimming without noticeable flicker. (Maybe, 50% dimming, I'd guess.)

It would be interesting if a driver expert here, can explain why.

 

[degarb]

The fan pwm driver did finally kill the brick driver. However, the integrated on board cob drivers love the fan dimmer. Of course, I really like lights way better if I can dim them, so I just popped another $1.50 50 watt to replace the flood light' chip and driver.



There are a few vital things that I love about the led chips with on board driver:
-I like that the thermal resistor dims the led, if not heatsinked properly.
-No more cost issues buying driver.
-One chip, no driver, allows many alternative light designs.
-I like that I can dim it.

I do not like:
-the additional heat to dissipate.
-No choice of led model.

As listed, the upsides outweigh the downside, for now.

I wonder if the these could be purchased without the led cob, and we could attach another brand to it. Or if plans to do more exciting brands with integrated drivers.


My minimal degarb unit of acceptable light from a light small light source, not worn, is 25,000 lumens, with 3 degarb units equal to bare minimum lighting for a real worklight. I had been struggling to find the right amount of lighting for 27 years, until finally achieved it in 2014. 80k lumens was the magic number. I use 120 to 200K,since it is child's play with 1000W mh. They wake me up, which is really just a side effect.


I am calculating from my experience that I need 10 of these cheap IC cobs to get 1 degarb unit, and 30 to get one semi acceptable real worklight. Doubting any design would be light or handy, even at one degarb unit.

Two high bin cma3090s might equal 26k lumens, plus cost of driver. The higher efficiency might mean less heat sink, but would not hold my breath for anything lightweight and could be whipped around and stored under a car seat.

As far as a cheap household worklight, these IC cobs work fine. They do current limit themselves as heat sink gets too hot.

Now, why would not all cobs be on copper pcb? It is a heck of a lot of heat that needs to be pulled as quickly as possible from a 50W source. Actually, any modern led driven over 1 watt should be on a copper pcb, imho.

I need to research pwm fan boards that can handle 500 your 1500 watts, to lower the lighting overall cost and form. I don't like toting about these dimmers, though I also use them on my grinder. Also, for how many I want, $14 is way too expensive.

 

[StarHalo]

Have you tried indica?

 

[degarb]

Have you tried indica?

No, never. Does dx.com, fasttech.com, cndirect.com, or intl-outdoor.com sell those leds? How many lpw are they? Do they heat sink well?

 

[milehigher]

If you dont mind it being 10" Whelen continuum series is incredably bright and you can connect as many as 5 together ,i just got a baby pod one 6 led 1900 lumen for running around at night ether spot or flood in white amber or smoked optics interchangable ,theres a video on you tube of a dude testing a 10" in the woods,they are pretty impressive and I believe they are IP69.

 

[degarb]

Have you tried indica?

Researching further into this brand of leds, it appears they only work in high bay lighting and have a high rate of burn out.

Now, I have also known about 15 people who all got panic attacks, are on Paxil or equivalent, to control the panic attacks for the rest of their lives. The only common thread was use of the Indica brand of leds! Also, have had people come to work for me after waking with this brand, telling me all workday how fast they were, when in reality they were getting little done. On the plus side, they had superior eyesight, and seemed, at least temporarily, easy going. Even seen people's eye glass prescription go to zero. Though I have no real idea if it was the Indica brand or Stevia.

Now, Milehigher (than StarHalo), those lights are a bit pricey. In mornings I have been using one 50watt cool on either side of my vision, one above, and computer screen straight ahead. So, 150w , $4.50, plus computer screen. I ramp up on the dimmers, assuming accustomed eyes need more light than unaccustomed. Warmer light in center. Still, can't hold a candle to a 1000w mh for waking up, nor walking outside in sunshine. Moving around, goals, music, and a fairly good night sleep help a lot. Probably, would need to lug out the giant MH to get a pale version of Mr Sunshine.