What would get you excited about flashlights again?

[idleprocess]

I don't have a lot of easy problems for the markets to solve.

I would like to see more LED tint options. I apparently missed out on Fenix's experiment with neutral tints, and they don't seem eager to repeat it, which is a shame since hitting good lumen numbers with acceptable runtime are not a challenge for LED's, but finding something <5000K (that isn't "warm" 2700K!) isn't easy from the brands I'm familiar with. I'm also decidedly "out of it" when it comes to some of these newer makes, so perhaps some of these other players are quality makes worth considering.

That and some solution to the neverending battery problem - cost/performance/weight/volume/compatibility. Alkalines are slowly losing ground to NiMH. Li primary remains expensive. Li-ion has slowly and painfully gained ground with 18650's commonplace. The RC123A seems to be a more niche beast that's best limited to single-cell applications. Li-poly remains an R/C and integrated-battery phenomenon. LiFePO4 has trrbl capacity. The various small fuel cell concepts remain solutions for "cost is no object" higher-power (and bulk) scenarios like powering A/V gear on remote film/TV sets.

I heard about these wonderful programmable-UI lights and liked the idea ... then recall that my one experience with one (from a custom maker whose name I am loathe to mention) was kind of mixed. I promptly realized that infinite brightness variation really didn't excite me all that much. Reading up on the UI's of other programmable lights, I'm still not sold on the actuality of them as presently implemented. Even futzing with the various flashlight apps on smartphones that have appreciably more latitude when it comes to UI, I'm thinking the idea will never quite satisfy.

"Zoom" lights that don't have all the usual compromises (heads with appreciable movement, lack of watertightness, optical efficiency problems) would be nice since I'd like to switch between spot and flood without carrying an awkward diffuser for a light with throw - perhaps something that switched between sets of emitters without needing awkward large secondary optics / heads?

So here's another question to add to the discussion... What do you think is the biggest reason you have cut back on new purchases and/or getting involved in discussions here on CPF (or any other place you may frequent)?

I discovered CPF when I was investigating the then-new concept of "power LED's" for a previous employer who was having issues with their cheap floro ballasts literally melting solder off of electronics in an enclosed equipment compartment. They opted to spend a few more dollars on more efficient ballasts and some ventilation, but I was fascinated by how the technology was moving at the time. I got hooked and flashlights were at the forefront of finished products with power LED's at the time.

However, I have a pattern with my interests along the lines of...
1. Discovery
2. Rising enthusiasm
3. Expertise
4. Disinterest

While there's no particular timeline, after the expertise phase disinterest eventually sets in. It's not that there's no more to learn or do, I just feel a need to move on to something else. I happened onto CPF when lighting technology was undergoing tremendous change, and dropped off as LED's place in the market went from unknown to contender to the dominant technology.

I have a lingering interest in fixed lighting as I contemplate projects in my home, but that's more of a gradual simmer than rolling boil. Perhaps later this year when I have more free time I'll actually finish some of these projects.

I have dozens of flashlights from my previous intense interest in the subject. In spite of their general obsolescence, almost all of them still work. I rarely obtained high-end flashlights, so I don't feel a need to recover those funds.

 

[StarHalo]

I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up

CPF is Classic Coke; be prudent with that formula.

As to the industry, it's not getting staid, merely repetitive - manufacturers are still trying to sell lights by the nearly decade-old method of one big lumen number and little else. The custom builders have it right; sell an EDC light as an EDC light, sensible design over extreme statistics. Neutral tints, logical mode progression with at least one moon mode, potted internals that work with the battery as well as they work with the LED, all these things should be standard by now, a given..

 

[RIX TUX]

All I need is a ZL that is a thrower with 800-1000 lumens, small, 18650 battery, and with only 3 modes (h-m-moonlight)

 

[orbital]

This is a great thread everyone! I hope we get lots more participation! :twothumbs

I have to admit that I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up somehow without losing its integrity and original intent. We're coming up on our 15th Anniversary next year - I feel like we should spend this year making CPF even grander. Thinking... :thinking:

+

How to increase business is an everyday thing.

..thinking

 

[ven]

I don't have a lot of easy problems for the markets to solve.

I would like to see more LED tint options.




"Zoom" lights that don't have all the usual compromises (heads with appreciable movement, lack of watertightness, optical efficiency problems) would be nice since I'd like to switch between spot and flood without carrying an awkward diffuser for a light with throw - perhaps something that switched between sets of emitters without needing awkward large secondary optics / heads?




Could not agree more(agree with your other comments too idleprocess):thumbsup: but these points interest me,the zoom that is great at both,no awkward beams,not asking for 1km throw,just decent,great flood,all that can be locked by a simple twist and water proof.....

Would be a very useful light.

I see things another way,lets be honest if there was the "perfect light" (i know impossible) but had flood like the mm15,throw like the tk61 so zoomable.All in a size that fits an 18650 cell,runs for 2hrs with no step down...........we would only buy or rather most of us would buy the one light and be done.

I think part of the reason that helps the interest from a personal point is the no perfect light,lots of options so you require more than one light.All the time new models,further throw,different run times and cell sizes/amount..............this is what keeps me personally interested...........variation.

Innovation becomes more difficult,it will happen,just slower as unless we can get lights that run at 5000lm for 4hrs without stepping down(with 1lm mode of course)i cant see anything change drastically in the near future................i could be completely wrong,just my thoughts.

I just want a flashlight to be just that,better materials(as in coatings),tint options,less step downs with clever use of materials and technology........come on it can be done,just maybe there is not enough demand to front the research costs fully as it would no doubt cost.

On here we have specialist demands,outside here peeps push a switch,5 lumen's comes out,see what they need to do..........just :laughing: and its away again for 2yrs.

I mean who in their right mind would spend more than $20 on a light..............my point being only the ones who enjoy,appreciate and use reliantly will.

 

[Greta]

+

Reading your title,
are you interested in making flashlights more exciting or CPF?

...two different things

From where I sit, they go hand in hand and the influence one has on the other can be significant. Any manufacturer would do well to monitor a thread like this and in truth, we have no idea who is watching. If just one manufacturer picks up something out of a thread like this (or is going through the Custom Modder and Builder forums), then we might just see something new on the horizon. It is a win-win situation. CPF is a factor in the flashlight industry whether anyone wants to admit it or not. That is one thing I most definitely "got" this year at SHOT Show. I remember wondering several times "When did I become someone? - I must have missed the memo" And by 'I', I mean CPF. I was told many times that anyone in the industry who does not know who/what CPF is and doesn't at least lurk is foolish to dismiss such a valuable resource.

So my thought is that we (both CPF and the flashlight industry) are on the brink of exciting times again and if we want, we can be a big part of it. Just need to figure out... how?

 

[orbital]

^

Greta, I just reworded my post,, it was not really what I wanted to convey
I understand it's a hand in hand thing...

You say we are on the brink of exciting times; is there some new technology coming soon?

A new US company, fully designing & assembly would be interesting to many here

 

[scout24]

More raffles... I realize they are time consuming, but they do generate buzz and revenue...

 

[Greta]

^

Greta, I just reworded my post,, it was not really what I wanted to convey

I understand it's a hand in hand thing...

+

How to increase business is an everyday thing.

..thinking

You're still missing the point, I think. Increasing business is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for interest and excitement - or perhaps I'm just longing for the good old days? Who knows. Is this what happens when one gets further into their 50's?

 

[Greta]

More raffles... I realize they are time consuming, but they do generate buzz and revenue...

Raffles are touchy. They can be considered "online gambling" if not done properly... which is where the time consuming part comes in. I have been thinking about it though...

 

[subwoofer]

This is a great thread everyone! I hope we get lots more participation! :twothumbs

I have to admit that I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up somehow without losing its integrity and original intent. We're coming up on our 15th Anniversary next year - I feel like we should spend this year making CPF even grander. Thinking... :thinking:

And exactly why CPF is so great :twothumbs

From where I sit, they go hand in hand and the influence one has on the other can be significant. Any manufacturer would do well to monitor a thread like this and in truth, we have no idea who is watching. If just one manufacturer picks up something out of a thread like this (or is going through the Custom Modder and Builder forums), then we might just see something new on the horizon. It is a win-win situation. CPF is a factor in the flashlight industry whether anyone wants to admit it or not. That is one thing I most definitely "got" this year at SHOT Show. I remember wondering several times "When did I become someone? - I must have missed the memo" And by 'I', I mean CPF. I was told many times that anyone in the industry who does not know who/what CPF is and doesn't at least lurk is foolish to dismiss such a valuable resource.

So my thought is that we (both CPF and the flashlight industry) are on the brink of exciting times again and if we want, we can be a big part of it. Just need to figure out... how?

Greta, well you and CPF have been 'somebody' for quite some time now, glad to see it has not gone to your head.

Back on topic though, and I agree with most of the previous posts but would add the following:

I believe that the flashlight market is now saturated. Just like any other sector in the market, you get a flurry of innovation and improvement and then anyone who wants to buy into it, does so. Then, all of a sudden your market declines, everyone gets bored, and only the strongest of the manufacturers with the greatest market penetration will survive.

I too have noticed a decline in interesting threads and content on CPF and more of the 'recommend me a light' requests, which mostly just seem lazy.

Of the lights I've used recently, there really is a pleasure in simplicity. The 5.11 S+R series A2 and A6 are single mode lights, and the A6 with its forward clicky side switch is a pleasure to use.

Sometimes sophistication and endless features become more of a pain that a benefit, and uber high outputs, fun but rarely practical.

Integrated chargers are definitely of interest to me. The Niteye EYE 30, Nitecore MH series and others using micro USB are very handy.

Multiple power source options are also a favourite of mine. There are many lights that will run on 1V-4.2V, but not all will take different sized cells. The Streamlight Sidewinder Compact II can run on AA or CR123 as specified, but can also run on AAA, RCR123 and 14500 if you are careful.

I was in discussion with Armytek about getting the Predator to also run off AA and AAA (lower modes only) as an emergency backup. This would certainly catch my attention.

The trouble is, that even if this thread generates a few good ideas for the manufacturers to include, once those models are out, we will be back to things slowing down again. After all, a flashlight is only a light, however sophisticated it may be.

 

[ven]

And exactly why CPF is so great :twothumbs





The trouble is, that even if this thread generates a few good ideas for the manufacturers to include, once those models are out, we will be back to things slowing down again. After all, a flashlight is only a light, however sophisticated it may be.

Agree 100% with that,only so many mods,tints,modes,its not like modded rc stuff that seems to be endless,motors,nitro engines,suspension to bodies,gear boxes,diffs...........think i dont need to go on :laughing:

A light is a tool,different purposes/needs for us all..........

But as said,with this site going so long,so many members,something is going right!!!!!!!!!!!

FANTASTIC to me being honest,peeps loose interest,its only natural,then i have seen of late a few "old timers" come back,may have been 5yrs since last post......

:twothumbs

 

[orbital]

+

Design contest

 

[Monocrom]

Raffles are touchy. They can be considered "online gambling" if not done properly... which is where the time consuming part comes in. I have been thinking about it though...

I remember when I got my Olight M20 Warrior for free. Some got them for 50% off, all thanks to an online raffle. It generated quite a bit of buzz and (very likely) revenue for Olight.

Perhaps another flashlight maker might be interested in getting in on that?

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

I would put my Stanley fat max up against any other light .. it just my go to outside light , 50 bucks at wallmart

 

[yoyoman]

How about something like an Oscar Awards? Maybe not an Annual thing, but at least once.

Categories could include nominations for Best Classic Light, Best Inca. Light, Most Complicated U.I., (my personal favorite) Light Most Ahead Of Its Time.

Perhaps sub-categories that are CPF specific, Best Topic, Most Loved Topic, Most Done to Death Topic, etc.

Just an idea....

I like this concept. Instead of people asking which is the BEST light, have them nominate what they think is the BEST light. And I like the categories suggested - Best Classic, Best UI, Best New Light, Best EDC, etc. The threads asking for the BEST light end up as a list of people's favorite lights, but they frequently don't respond to the OP needs and the responses often don't explain why they think that is the BEST light. Turn it around and it could be interesting and productive.

I also like this concept for threads. Which thread do you read or check everyday? Which thread gave the most useful information?

 

[RIX TUX]

I would put my Stanley fat max up against any other light .. it just my go to outside light , 50 bucks at wallmart

ok put it in your pocket?

 

[markr6]

Nichia 219A with 3x the output!!:twothumbs

And no, triples don't count

 

[Bucur]

The title implies that once upon a time, CPF members were more excited about flashlights than they now are. This may be true for some long-time members but I, as a relatively newer member, am not losing my excitement (yet?). I believe post count is not the best indicator of excitement but the time spent in CPF is. I wish I could contribute as much as the gurus. However, reading them is as exciting as it can be for me. There are excellent reviews and a huge accumulation of knowledge at CPF. Both remain to be very exciting for me. I hope my interest in reading them is also exciting for their authors.

As far as I can conclude, there must be a correlation between technological progress and the perception of "excitement". There is no doubt that an unprecedented pace of improvements in LED efficiency and battery performance enhances the excitement when it comes to flashlights. This excitement may have boomed the interest to flashlights for a while. But since flashlights do not consist of an emitter and a battery, I believe they will further improve in other dimensions and this will be exciting.

IMHO, flashlights with improved heat transfer and better energy management will not be less exciting than the lumens war. Neither will some design features towards more user friendliness. Today's flashlights already produce zillion lumens and I am excited by the hope to see them improve upon their brutal power. Contemporary supercars are not that much more powerful than the muscle cars of the 1960's and 70's but they are so much more refined and controllable and easier to drive and safer and … so on. Practical daily cars are also much better than their ancestors without being more powerful. To the opposite, they perform better despite being less powerful because they are lighter, more aerodynamic; they have better volume to usable space ratio, etc… And the materials that modern cars are made of are beyond comparison with their ancestors. Yet, 1960's and 70's were the boom years of the car industry.

I expect or hope a similar trend in flashlights. If this happens, CPF will remain to be as exciting as it was the day I joined in and as exciting as it now is. :twothumbs

 

[ven]

THIS IS TO THE POINT-If it wasnt for CPF i would not have been as interested in flashlights,its opened an new world in whats out there.

So CPF has played a huge 98% difference personally..............so CPF for me makes flashlights interesting,when i say CPF its the members:twothumbs as well as the lights i would not have known.............

Wont waffle on more,hope that gets across my personal honest thoughts:thumbsup: