Where do you think we'll top out with this lumen thing?

[bykfixer]

Not being a rocket scientist, as best as I can tell the LED is here to stay, it's just where the energy is derived from.
So with all things being equal it seems that same output is being explored with a lot less energy required.

Say 100 watt bulb illumination with 1/2 the energy required of the current LED technology. Or as little as a third of the watts to drive a bulb (if you were) as the cfl or led could be available at your local big box store as soon as next year.

But what I was getting at in general was that when those emitters can be had for say...$6-8 each or say a 6 pack for $20...that's when it'll become as viable to flashlights as the LED was back when folks had a choice between a typical 6p or the new LED model.

And that's when all you wiz-kids will figure out how to drive those new techs to their max and end up with a lot more lumens...then when heat becomes an issue...you know it will then too...maybe by then the heat output will be part of the energy source.

In addition flexible emitter strips are also just around the corner. Can you imagine someone like Vihn with an LED emitter that can be shaped?

A Vihn tweaked flexible emitter with a McCliesch reflector?

And when Mr. Malkoff sinks his teeth into it...

No telling what the US military is working on that we don't know about. Something tells me they aren't spending most of their time in the space station growing zero gravity tomatoes or playing poker all day...

 

[more_vampires]

In addition flexible emitter strips are also just around the corner. Can you imagine someone like Vihn with an LED emitter that can be shaped?

A "reflector" that also emits light in addition to the main emitter? Yes, please! How the heck are we going to shape that beam? Don't care, we'll figure it out somehow!

Parabolic emitters! Now there is an idea!

 

[bykfixer]

Geez, ya talk about TIR....

 

[SemiMan]

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[bykfixer]

^^ what?

You lost me about 4 sentences in.

Re-read it 9-10 times...

Guess I won't bother reading on the internet anymore...cause they're all wrong I suppose.

Lighten up bro.
Life is short.

 

[SemiMan]

Guess I won't bother reading on the internet anymore...cause they're all wrong I suppose.

Lighten up bro.
Life is short.

... When you are reading a poorly informed tech writers summary of a highly technical article ... then yes, they are often wrong. If you don't have the knowledge to read between the lines, then the interpretation of the interpretation may be even worse.

Life IS short. Hence I choose not to waste other's time with less than factual information.

 

[bykfixer]

O ok...

 

[MrJino]

I'm guessing there will be a day when LED is old technology...

 

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I'm guessing there will be a day when LED is old technology...

Right, just like incandescent is to LED.

Maybe a new technology will surface that we didn't ever consider before ....OR a LED with a feedback loop that uses it's own output power to drive the input harder and add to the output and/or partially recharge the power source!!! Then the name Turbo would really mean something!!

 

[SemiMan]

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[more_vampires]

HID: ~55% efficiency. (give or take)

LEP: ~90% efficiency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_lamp

High intensity discharge lamps have typical luminaire efficiencies of 55%, and fluorescent lamps of 70%. Plasma lamps typically have luminaire efficiencies exceeding 90%.

http://straylightoptical.com/light-emitting-plasma-vs-led/2011/05

Light Emitting Plasma™ and Light Emitting Diode (LED) provide similar reliability and lifetime. Directionality of LED light is good. Properly balanced high-end LED fixtures are beginning to achieve satisfactory CRI and color temperatures, although this comes at a significant premium. Lumen density of LED's is still low compared with Plasma. It still takes about 100 typical high lumen LEDs to produce similar lumen output to 1 Plasma source. This high component count combined with high thermal sensitivity which requires large heat sinks yields fixtures which are typically larger, heavier, and more expensive than a Plasma fixture for the same lumen output. LED does have the advantage of instantaneous turn on. LED is a good fit for lower lumen applications such residential indoor and accent lighting, but not high lumen applications.

Click here to find out how the superior output and efficiency of LEP is implemented in applications like area lighting, roadway lighting, and industrial lighting.

Lumens, man. Lumens.

 

[lightlover]

I'm guessing there will be a day when LED is old technology...

MrJino,
Look back on this topic in 10 years time!
In 20 years time!

I won't be here then, but - look to the future .. . .

EDIT: I can look back 25 years - sad!

 

[idleprocess]

HID: ~55% efficiency. (give or take)

LEP: ~90% efficiency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_lamp

I believe the takeaway there is luminaire efficiency, not light source electrical efficiency.

 

[SemiMan]

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[more_vampires]

I believe the takeaway there is luminaire efficiency, not light source electrical efficiency.

Just mentioning tech other than LED, some had mentioned it... on topic.

Fixture efficiency has nothing to do with source efficiency. Fixture efficiency is how much of the source lumens make it out of the fixture.

Most of what you quoted on LEP is old, and somewhat inaccurate except you can do a lot of light from a single LEP source. Unfortunately most every promise of LED has not come true and LED has just steamrolled it.

Semiman

The topic of the thread is max lumens. Even HID can scale higher than LED from a single source.

Anyway, if it's old then go edit the wiki. That's what wikis are for.

Also: http://www.brightlightsystems.com/BLP1000.html
Show me the single 46,000 lumen LED emitter, I must have one. Here's a 46,000 lumen LEP.

 

[search_and_rescue]

Well, it's nearing the last quarter of 2021. Last night I was comparing the Nitecore TM38 Lite to the Acebeam K75. At first the CREE XHP 35 HI appeared very intense. Then I turned on the Luminous SBT-90.2 and the thing made the CREE appear weak. How did Luminus do it?

On another note, the far future of the Earth may not be all bad. In one billion years, the Solar Luminosity will increase at least 10%. For us Flashaholics, that's fantastic! That is the ultimate flashlight. Even if predictions are way off, only good news can result. I mean that perhaps in only one million years the Solar Luminosity will increase by 15%, and the predictions were wrong. That would be the ultimate flashlight! Our own Sun is nothing to shake a stick at!

 

[thermal guy]

I might get some slack here but I think we are already brighter then we need to be. And honestly a light that puts out 15-20k for 15 seconds till it overheats is just for bragging rights. Give me 1-2 thousand that lasts for a few hours and that's all I'd ever need. Much more reliable as well.

 

[search_and_rescue]

I might get some slack here but I think we are already brighter then we need to be. And honestly a light that puts out 15-20k for 15 seconds till it overheats is just for bragging rights. Give me 1-2 thousand that lasts for a few hours and that's all I'd ever need. Much more reliable as well.

Thermal Guy I think you may be quite right. I had a Summer deal to acquire the newest LEP. The thing tested 1.8Mcd and 502 ANSI lumens. It lights up a palm tree 300 meters away brighter than the MF05. The LEP uses only a single 21700 cell and is a pleasure to hold in the hand. It barely gets warm too. So I think you are right and I know what you mean. If we had LEP tech projecting 2 X 502 ANSI lumens onto the same target 2 X 1.8Mcd; indeed that is plenty of brightness! I'm with you!

 

[richbuff]

For me, this lumens thing will top out at three MS18 ganged, one gang in each hand, 600,000 lumens.

I can run a large light on low mode for super duper runtime, or I can run a small light on max mode for maximum performance to size ratio, but with low runtime. Or I can run a medium size light on medium mode.
Size, power, runtime. I pick the two I like and then I have no complaints about the third one. Mostly I like low runtime, and the most power per given size. So far, I do not own a large size light with a single XP-G2 emitter. But, if I were a runtime connoisseur, I certainly would. More than one. A lot of large lights with lots of battery capacity, with a single teensy weensy itty bitty tiny emitter on top. But no, not me, so far. Only lights that have low mode, medium mode, normal mode and mega peta exa Turbo mode that is capable of a brief blaze of illumination glory, then time to refuel. I use low mode as a practical tool. I use turbo to make life exciting. And/or to briefly brightly illuminate a large area, then quickly throttle back when the small target is identified.

 

[3_gun]

As a technical exercise I doubt we will ever see an end of the hunt for more lumens. That's not a bad thing unless it causes other development to not be done. We are very close to or at that point.

Two thousand lumens will clearly light distances well beyond what we can see in any detail. Yes there are cases where that kind of light is very much needed but those situations are specialize & uncommon for most in daily life. But lumens sell & marketing drives sales & sales influences development and repeat.

Just about every light I've bought in the last six weeks has an upper lumen level that is meaningfully unsustainable. The light that ended my search for a new EDC did so more with the UI & beam pattern than peak lumen levels. Turbo (4600L claimed) isn't even in the normal rotation of light levels, it can only be reached with a shortcut. And the run times of the two lower light levels (not including ML) were also bigger selling points for me than the peak lumens. But of course everyone & I do mean everyone wants to see turbo.

I use my light for CC, work & safety. It's a tool not a hobby or toy. Truth is I have more than one EDC. I take the one that's suited for the day I expect to have plus a margin to handle things I don't expect. They are; Olight i5T, Fenix LD12, Klarus SP10 and Acebeam E70. My "bedroom slippers" EDC is a Sofirn S11c. It has found itself clipped on my T-shirt, sweat shirt, sweat pants, etc pretty much with me anytime I'm wearing slippers. Only the E70 exceeds 1k/L in any meaningful way, all have useful run times into double digits (hrs).

The chase of LUMENS has long since pass by me & my needs