Why do my LED lights keep dying?
- Thread starter jeffkruse
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Re: I killed my 5th light, why me?
It's interestung though. I wonder how many people out there have run a PD31for 75 hours?! I've probably not even run mine for 75 seconds lol.
I often wonder how long these high power lights actually last, maybe you've just found out.
It can't be that you've just been unlucky, surely!
It's interestung though. I wonder how many people out there have run a PD31for 75 hours?! I've probably not even run mine for 75 seconds lol.
I often wonder how long these high power lights actually last, maybe you've just found out.
It can't be that you've just been unlucky, surely!
Re: I killed my 5th light, why me?
deja-vu - Exactly! Because it happened again this weekend with my PD31. The light was loosely held in my gloved hand. It was in and out of the water so cooling shouldn't be an issue (this time anyways).
The drivers should be able to handle more than 4.2 volts. I am using ONE 18650, not TWO 123's. Over voltage is not an issue.
I love these little lights but I want one that lasts more than 100 hours! The cases are bullet proof, no issues there.
I suspect there are very few people who use their lights on full power for hours at a time once a week. With the PD31 and TK12 I think they don't output "full Power" when the battery voltage drops. That means these lights are not at full power the whole time. I think the TK30 may be at full power the whole time but I only use that light for 30 minutes at a time.
deja-vu - Exactly! Because it happened again this weekend with my PD31. The light was loosely held in my gloved hand. It was in and out of the water so cooling shouldn't be an issue (this time anyways).
The drivers should be able to handle more than 4.2 volts. I am using ONE 18650, not TWO 123's. Over voltage is not an issue.
I love these little lights but I want one that lasts more than 100 hours! The cases are bullet proof, no issues there.
I suspect there are very few people who use their lights on full power for hours at a time once a week. With the PD31 and TK12 I think they don't output "full Power" when the battery voltage drops. That means these lights are not at full power the whole time. I think the TK30 may be at full power the whole time but I only use that light for 30 minutes at a time.
luceat lux vestra
Enlightened
I completely understand, I would not carry a big bright light to use it at 60 lumens!!:shakehead My current EDC is a Quark aa with a 14500 for low light uses and then I carry a Quark 132x2 turbo X programed for max and strobe.
If I were you I would try a thermally regulated light; with my turbo X, I have never noticed it dialing down, but it still keeps my LED from going kaput [I think anyway] Hope this is relevant.
Luceat lux vestra
Let your light shine
Only a CPF'er would switch on a light and say 'Wow! Look how dim that is!'
Hey, he can blast away in 100 degree temps with his lights on turbo for 3 hours if he wants, but then he can't complain when they don't last long. It seems to be general trend that it's not working out.
Again, go ahead and use 500 lms to light up a big cavern for a few minutes at a time, that should be no problem. But for general navigation in zero ambient light conditions, a lower mode should be more than sufficient, and clearly, more practical in the long run as you'll wreck a lot less lights.
Again, go ahead and use 500 lms to light up a big cavern for a few minutes at a time, that should be no problem. But for general navigation in zero ambient light conditions, a lower mode should be more than sufficient, and clearly, more practical in the long run as you'll wreck a lot less lights.
Wow, so I can't expect to use my light on high for the burn time of the battery? Also, it's not 100 degrees it's less than 85.
So what light, 18650, 300+ lumen, light can be used on high indefinitely? None?
You seem to want me to cave by candle light? What's so wrong with wanting more light? I bet I see far more with my bright light than you do with something only ¼ as bright.
Sure, you CAN run them all the time on full power, but as you see - they don't last long at that level under those conditions.
One solution could be to find a light that has really great heatsinking, or that is thermal regulated. Or you could switch to incadescent/HID lights since they should not be so picky about the temperature.
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red02
Enlightened
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I agree 100% if a manufacturer rates their light for 40,000 hours AND includes a high mode with 200+lm, why shouldn't it be reasonable to expect that light to last? I've actually had a zebralight H501 die on me, now that I think about it I did run it at full power for most of it's life. This makes me wonder how many people actually use their lights like this... I get the feeling that most people just turn on high mode for a few minutes to marvel at the capabilities then back to off, but there isn't a huge majority that NEEDS to use their on high consistently.
Personally I prefer lower light levels, but it would be nice to know that I could actually depend on my tools to work -as advertised-.
Its wrong to be blamed for using lights according to their instructions.
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alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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i think you need to closely examine your failed lights, with dmm, and a lot attention, i,m pretty sure dead lights will tell you why they died, if you look hard enough, cuz now we can only guess.
may be you should try incandecent lights, there are less things to fail, and heat is no issue, i think you will have less problems. you would need to carry 2x as much of spare batteries, and just in case a spare bulb too.
may be you should try incandecent lights, there are less things to fail, and heat is no issue, i think you will have less problems. you would need to carry 2x as much of spare batteries, and just in case a spare bulb too.
As has been stated before the most common reasons for LED failure are overheating, over driving, and moisture. There are plenty of examples of those in this thread. If however those can be ruled out and an LED still fails I would do the following in no particular order:
1) check for signs of corrosion or oxidation in the light or on the battery or batteries.
2) check for signs of battery failure like leakage, venting, or swelling.
3) use a DMM to check for unusal drain or shorts, continuity throughout the circuitry, and/or unusual voltages.
4) check the battery or batteries with a battery tester -- it is not enough just to know the voltage.
I do a regular and frequent preventive maintenace on my lights by using only quality batteries with known purchase and best by dates. I also use the proper lubricant/grease for the light and the o-rings to keep it as water resistant as possible (I use that term because there is almost always a situation where a light will let water or moisture inside). I also use a quality contact cleaner and then DeOxit Gold to make sure the contacts on the light and the batteries are as clean and good as possible and I let those chemicals dry completely (minimum of five minutes drying time) before I reassemble the light.
1) check for signs of corrosion or oxidation in the light or on the battery or batteries.
2) check for signs of battery failure like leakage, venting, or swelling.
3) use a DMM to check for unusal drain or shorts, continuity throughout the circuitry, and/or unusual voltages.
4) check the battery or batteries with a battery tester -- it is not enough just to know the voltage.
I do a regular and frequent preventive maintenace on my lights by using only quality batteries with known purchase and best by dates. I also use the proper lubricant/grease for the light and the o-rings to keep it as water resistant as possible (I use that term because there is almost always a situation where a light will let water or moisture inside). I also use a quality contact cleaner and then DeOxit Gold to make sure the contacts on the light and the batteries are as clean and good as possible and I let those chemicals dry completely (minimum of five minutes drying time) before I reassemble the light.
easilyled
Flashaholic
If the XM-L is driven at 2.8A+ for many hours continuously, its going to be difficult to conduct all the heat away. At this current level, the OTF lumens may be 700 initially but they would probably not stay that way for very long because as the led heats up, its output decreases and ultimately its lifetime is adversely affected.
However drive the XM-L at 1.4A and the OTF lumens of about 400 will probably be rock solid for a long time continuously with half-decent heat-sinking. I'm sure that 400 lumens is more than enough for caving.
McGizmo's Makai light with the 2-cell XM-L L.E drives the XM-L at roughly 1.4A and this is the hardest driven of any of McGizmo's lights. This is one of the reasons that they are so reliable. I suggest that instead of buying 10 Fenix lights, just buy a Makai with 2-cell XM-L L.E instead.
However drive the XM-L at 1.4A and the OTF lumens of about 400 will probably be rock solid for a long time continuously with half-decent heat-sinking. I'm sure that 400 lumens is more than enough for caving.
McGizmo's Makai light with the 2-cell XM-L L.E drives the XM-L at roughly 1.4A and this is the hardest driven of any of McGizmo's lights. This is one of the reasons that they are so reliable. I suggest that instead of buying 10 Fenix lights, just buy a Makai with 2-cell XM-L L.E instead.
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For the OP's quest for a tough, durable light that can put out the lumens and be under $400, why not try a Malkoff Wildcat?
It will give you the "Wall of Light" you are looking for and they seem very tough. I have one of the older 4-LED Wildcat's with an MD3 body. I have never abused it, but it exudes quality and I think it would hold up well. I paid a bit under $200.
If you want long throw, you could go with the Malkoff "Hound Dog."
I think this is an interesting topic, because it is true that very few people actually put their lights through a "torture-test" or do long-term burn-time testing with lumen measurements, etc. to see if the light really meets the manufacturers claims.
The situation is similar in firearms. The manufacturers know that most people buy a gun, practice every now and then and then put the gun away in a safe or a nightstand. Few problems show up. However, if you get into IDPA competition, or "Run-N-Gun" marches *and* devote lots of time and ammo to practice, you will see lesser guns start to fall apart.
Even quality guns will start breaking if you are shooting a bunch and don't change out the springs, keep well lubed, etc.
I think a lot of people (myself included) buy a light with a lot of lumens and flick it on high for a few minutes to impress our
friends. We do not try and run them on high for hours on end in 80+ degree temps holding them in gloved hands.
I would like to see more empirical testing, but maybe some lights just are not really made to be run on high for extended times and the manufacturers know only a tiny portion of their customers will use them that way?
It will give you the "Wall of Light" you are looking for and they seem very tough. I have one of the older 4-LED Wildcat's with an MD3 body. I have never abused it, but it exudes quality and I think it would hold up well. I paid a bit under $200.
If you want long throw, you could go with the Malkoff "Hound Dog."
I think this is an interesting topic, because it is true that very few people actually put their lights through a "torture-test" or do long-term burn-time testing with lumen measurements, etc. to see if the light really meets the manufacturers claims.
The situation is similar in firearms. The manufacturers know that most people buy a gun, practice every now and then and then put the gun away in a safe or a nightstand. Few problems show up. However, if you get into IDPA competition, or "Run-N-Gun" marches *and* devote lots of time and ammo to practice, you will see lesser guns start to fall apart.
Even quality guns will start breaking if you are shooting a bunch and don't change out the springs, keep well lubed, etc.
I think a lot of people (myself included) buy a light with a lot of lumens and flick it on high for a few minutes to impress our
friends. We do not try and run them on high for hours on end in 80+ degree temps holding them in gloved hands.
I would like to see more empirical testing, but maybe some lights just are not really made to be run on high for extended times and the manufacturers know only a tiny portion of their customers will use them that way?
alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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Re: I killed my 5th light, why me?
i just noticed, evey light that died, (not sue about iTP) had led on star, i have always though that a star is the weakest link in heat transfer, and now mine, yours, and others dead leds on stars just make that opinion stronger.
imo you will not get a led light that can run on max for entire time, and expect it live long, wont happen, unless the led is either glued or soldered to a heatsink diectly. that is why i love p7, big enough to work with without the star.
so you should either look for light that has led not on the star, or get a light that has 2x as many lummens you need, and run it on half power. or replace leds (if that is the case), in your lights, leds are not that expencive.
i just noticed, evey light that died, (not sue about iTP) had led on star, i have always though that a star is the weakest link in heat transfer, and now mine, yours, and others dead leds on stars just make that opinion stronger.
imo you will not get a led light that can run on max for entire time, and expect it live long, wont happen, unless the led is either glued or soldered to a heatsink diectly. that is why i love p7, big enough to work with without the star.
so you should either look for light that has led not on the star, or get a light that has 2x as many lummens you need, and run it on half power. or replace leds (if that is the case), in your lights, leds are not that expencive.
I hate to sound like a jerk but I don't see any top of the line flashlights in the list... I am not an expert by any stretch an honestly am a bit of a rookie in the LED world but these lights are being built with brightness in mind and therefore running them on high for long periods of time is probably not good for it. Lights that are built for durability first and brightness second will run on high no problem I would start looking at some different brands.
Streamer
Enlightened
All right Mike. There were four Fenix torches and two ITP's (Olight). None of them came from the Dollar Store.
How Goes It
Newly Enlightened
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Some experts --- help me out here if you would.
Does anyone remember reading in an Elektrolumens thread, on how you could see if all parts of the MC-E LED were lighting up, by using a welder's helmet? Is this safe to do?
And I guess you could assume that if one or more of the four parts of that LED was not lighting up --- well, then you could figure the LED was fried, at least in part, and that's why the reduced output.
Any experts out there know about this way of checking a MC-E LED?
Is this safe?
Does anyone remember reading in an Elektrolumens thread, on how you could see if all parts of the MC-E LED were lighting up, by using a welder's helmet? Is this safe to do?
And I guess you could assume that if one or more of the four parts of that LED was not lighting up --- well, then you could figure the LED was fried, at least in part, and that's why the reduced output.
Any experts out there know about this way of checking a MC-E LED?
Is this safe?
Jeff,
Heat and over-voltage will kill any semiconductor, which is what an LED is.
While the manufacturers rate an LED's life expectancy at 50,000 that is under ideal conditions, being underdriven and with very good heat sinking, none of which happen in a flashlight being overdriven to the max and for extended periods as you do. Many manufactures only rate their LED's for 5000 hour or less, much less.
As with any tool there are homeowner grade products and professional grade products. I would not expect a homeowner grade product to perform as a professional grade specialty product.
There is a reason why Surefire continues to do very well in a world where much cheaper flashlights promise much more.
In your application I would suggest you get a metal Surefire light as a backup to a caving light. Your life is worth buying professional grade products.
Heat and over-voltage will kill any semiconductor, which is what an LED is.
While the manufacturers rate an LED's life expectancy at 50,000 that is under ideal conditions, being underdriven and with very good heat sinking, none of which happen in a flashlight being overdriven to the max and for extended periods as you do. Many manufactures only rate their LED's for 5000 hour or less, much less.
As with any tool there are homeowner grade products and professional grade products. I would not expect a homeowner grade product to perform as a professional grade specialty product.
There is a reason why Surefire continues to do very well in a world where much cheaper flashlights promise much more.
In your application I would suggest you get a metal Surefire light as a backup to a caving light. Your life is worth buying professional grade products.
Every single fenix and 4sevens light with multimode I've ever had has it written in the manual to avoid running the list for long periods on max mode for the exact reason that heat will eventually kill the led.
Given that you've been caving and keeping the lights on max the whole time, it's not surprising thats happened. The most useful sugession here has been that you take apart the lights and test the parts for failure.
Meanwhile, please use your lights on high if you're leaving them on for any amount of time. The high from something like the tk35 is already blinding and more then enough to go by. I use MEDIUM to light up dark rooms at home at night.
Crenshaw
Given that you've been caving and keeping the lights on max the whole time, it's not surprising thats happened. The most useful sugession here has been that you take apart the lights and test the parts for failure.
Meanwhile, please use your lights on high if you're leaving them on for any amount of time. The high from something like the tk35 is already blinding and more then enough to go by. I use MEDIUM to light up dark rooms at home at night.
Crenshaw
