sudden death of sf 123 cells

Okay the light in question is an e2e. Original batteries, worked fine one use and the next nothin, had been used for a while, new bats all is fine, the next set was fine changed when dimmmed too much, then this set, has some time on them knew they were about done but still worked good. Used it for prob 10 - 15 minuted stalking some raccoons, turned it off went to use it a little later and nothin. So what causes these cells to just die?? How common do you all expierence this??

Later guys!! snapper

I have 7 CR123 lights, and have not yet experienced any of this. But none of them are Surefires (the L2 is on order).

However, I have the suspicion that this might be a problem of the momentary switch of SFs. Could we start a data collection, which lights were involved and how the lights were handled during this experience? The latter data is very often missing from the reports, and people are quick to suspect the batteries. So far, the only lights I know of definitely identified with this phenomenon are Surefires.

To be sure, I'm not blaming Surefire! But the data I have is simply not enough to really say it's a battery problem.

This phenomenon has been discussed at length in the past and has been the subject of unresolved controversy.

Brightnorm

It's not only SureFires been reported on CPF, and not only SureFire batteries either. I personally think it's mostly down to not realising how much the light has been used (for various reasons) and the nature of 123A batteries to give output until their last...

This problem is almost exclusive to surefire batteries. It does not matter how much time is on the battery, they could have 10 to 15 min use or be brand new & this can happen. Usually is is only one of the batteries that die & the other one or two are fine.
This problem has been reported to Surefire & they say they can't duplicate it.
My advice is to buy Battery Stations batteries as I have never had this happen with one of their batteries & have had at lease 6 surefires die pre-maturely.

I had this happen to me twice. SF batteries and SF Flashlights involved both times. I suspect a single battery failure by swapping batteries around [as noted above by imfrogman].

Interestingly it happened two me twice within a few weeks and has never repeated since then, I've been about a year trouble free now.

I've had at least 5 sudden-death SF batteries in different lights.

I've had one fail. It was a new box from SF purchased directly from them and picked up my me. It was placed in an M2 as part of a complete battery change.

It failed after about 10 mins of intermittent use that was discovered the next day when I tried to turn the light on.

The other battery was still good but one of them was a goner.

I have had the same problem with SF batteries, usually in my L4(only because I use it the most). Typically only one of the pair dies so much that they can't even power my X5T. As imfrogman noted the Battery Station version doesn't seem to have this problem. I was wondering if it was a chemistry thing... Like alkaline cells voltage will rise a bit after they sit unused. Maybe Lithium chemistry does the opposite. Any chemical engineers out there that can answer that?

i had the some problem with 2 streamlight batteries and 1 panasonic "black" (i think is a high-drain type), with duracell batts no problem, they dye gradually

I had this happen to me twice within a month or two. That was a year ago, and it hasn't happened since. They were Sanyo cells in two different ARC flashlights. One with a clickie, the other was a twisty.

I've had it happen twice, both times on Surefire batteries. As it wasn't feasible to ship back to the States I gave up on SF batteries and either use Panasonic or Sanyo. (Touch wood)but since the change over I've had no more problems!

I had this happen with non SF batt's. thses are labeled "command"(manufactered by kroll, is that the same as the switch co?) I got at the local LEO outfitter, my E2d was the light, and I had used it for a 5-10 min's the turned it off. when i turned it back on the light barely lit then died. i just figured that was how the E2d operate's. I knoew in advancea high output light like this may drain real quick. but figured it would do so while ON.VDG

Another set of cells bit the dust in the same 'overnight failure way' last night. I haven't managed to run a signle set of cells until they are yellowing - ever! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

And my problem is exclusively surefire... but then so far I've been running exclusively surefire! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Al - have you got that contact info for masterchief? Ta.

_____
Derek

I was going to email you wasn't I?

Sorry about that... Standby

Al

This is too many failures from different people to not be valid. results last time, I made a request for surefire 123 failure feedback surefire 123 failure feedback thread

Had my experiences, too, and I basically ask myself the question if this is a failure of the battery or a protection mechanism kicking in?

But IMHO the real question is ... what will happen when such a cell "dies" in an M4 ? Will it be reverse-charged and explode when the light is activted?

bernhard

Sometime ago, at the outbreak of this controversy, I made my personal research on 123s dying unespectedly.
You can search among old threads. I found out that a 123 cell with a bad crimp seal, after being used for a while, will not hold residual charge due to the evaporation of an extremely volatile additive contained in the electrolite.
In my tests, this was brand-insensitive.

I want to emphasize that this is MY testing, not baked up from ANY source that I know... I believe, indeed, it is the real cause for failing 123s, and may be other types of lithium battery.

Just to refresh everybody minds with public data, a defective seal in a zinc-carbon cell produces evaporation of the water with an abnormal increase of the internal resistance of the cell; in the case of alkaline cells, it produces the conversions of the electrolyte, made of potassium hydroxide, in potassium carbonate (by the action of carbon dioxide contained in the air), first increasing the internal resistance of the cell and then deactivating it at all.

Now, lithium cells contains a component in the electrolite that is hundreds of time more volatile than water, so even a slightly defective crimp seal has very severe consequences on the cell functionality.

My 2 € cents

Anthony

I have yet to suffer a cr 123 failure, but many others. Its not uncommon for me to use something that is battery operated and see its dead and the battery compartment is full of this white crusty stuff, sometimes still well, other times the batteries just die with no stuff coming out of them.

My worse experience was with my trek 19 led light from the ccrane company with the aluminum body. I could not get it to work, went to unscrew it and the cap blew off. The batteries were wet with their chemicals coming out. The led and lens was ok. My mag lights when this happens they crust up and i end up spraying the battery area down with wd 40 and slamming the base down on the ground to get the last cell out.

So far with my bad luck, I have been ok.