I like this idea of screen swapping and the shared space for prolonged touch buttons and the focus slider. In the pics above, does it indicate that two separate screens will be installed side-by-side?
The Nightsword project
- Thread starter get-lit
- Start date
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
No, this display is just the OLED. The drawing is the screen of the primary controls. The white square just outlines the thumb slider. This version I like for it's simplicity while still including all of the features we've discussed so far.
London Lad
Flashlight Enthusiast
I like the simplicity. Its very hard to judge without 'trying it'
1.32" x 1.06" OLED Display...
OK, so this is one OLED screen. I guess it looks like two because of the appearance of the white strip of the border down the center and the other 3 sides of the border blend into the CPF forum white background?
Interesting version. Not sure about this one. I think I might feel a bit worried about accidentally activating the POWER button when adjusting the beam spread. Would be aware of it all the time. Could the beam spread adjustment portion of the screen be even more narrow so that the icons would fit outside it? I quess you have probably tried that already. I think at the moment I like the glass touch panel version more.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think you're spot on ez78. I very much agree for two reasons. The screen printed glass touch panel looks much better, but most importantly, it's more durable. For a tool I intend to be used out in the field and in harsh environments, a digital screen just becomes another link in the chain of components that could fail, the weakest link actually. Not something you want to have to rely on for the light to be operational.
So first off, the light should be fully operational without a screen. If used at all, a screen should be for convenience features only. Even then, I prefer a simpler "character display" than a "graphic" display. Having the same pixels always lit up on a "graphic" display causes them to burn into the screen. For the intended purposes of this light, I'd rather not have a screen at all, but instead have a serial connection port to a separate touch screen for changing settings.
Because of it's wide orientation, there's nowhere to put a "character" display mounted near the primary controls, so even if it were to be part of the light housing, it would probably have to be mounted on the side somewhere. Still, I'm leaning toward just a connection port to a separate touch screen. Then I could use any readily available LCD touch screen module because it doesn't have to be perfect for night use if it's just for changing the settings.
So first off, the light should be fully operational without a screen. If used at all, a screen should be for convenience features only. Even then, I prefer a simpler "character display" than a "graphic" display. Having the same pixels always lit up on a "graphic" display causes them to burn into the screen. For the intended purposes of this light, I'd rather not have a screen at all, but instead have a serial connection port to a separate touch screen for changing settings.
Because of it's wide orientation, there's nowhere to put a "character" display mounted near the primary controls, so even if it were to be part of the light housing, it would probably have to be mounted on the side somewhere. Still, I'm leaning toward just a connection port to a separate touch screen. Then I could use any readily available LCD touch screen module because it doesn't have to be perfect for night use if it's just for changing the settings.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
Here's a static back-lit screen printed display that operates completely without an electronic display, but also includes a small .55"x.79" color OLED (4d Systems 0.96" diagonal) in the lower right for displaying beam degrees, timer, and settings menus. Shown with touch screen black bezel. The bezel is radiused for flush surface mount into the housing.
The UP, DOWN, ENTER buttons become active for navigating the settings displayed in the OLED when first touching the OLED area. Touching the OLED area again returns the thumb slider function, and the OLED returns to display the beam degrees, timer, and meters.
Shown with menu active and currently selected to RECORD PATTERN.
EDIT - There is more work to assembling this, but it may be worth it to include everything in the smallest size possible and to also make the light fully operational without relying on the electronic display.
The UP, DOWN, ENTER buttons become active for navigating the settings displayed in the OLED when first touching the OLED area. Touching the OLED area again returns the thumb slider function, and the OLED returns to display the beam degrees, timer, and meters.
Shown with menu active and currently selected to RECORD PATTERN.
EDIT - There is more work to assembling this, but it may be worth it to include everything in the smallest size possible and to also make the light fully operational without relying on the electronic display.
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get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you'd like to get a feel for the size of this under the thumb, print out this PDF drawing.
EDIT - My 1000th Post!!
EDIT - My 1000th Post!!
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get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
Here's an all "physical" display having just about all functions without using any electronic display...
Left Buttons are FLASH, PLAY, LOW POWER
Right Buttons are LAMP POWER, SCREEN BRIGHTNESS, KEY LOCK
Button Actions -> Functions:
Touch FLASH button -> Intermittent flash
Hold FLASH button for 5 seconds -> Flash remains on
Touch LOW POWER button -> Intermittent low power
Hold LOW POWER button for 5 seconds -> Low power remains on
Hold LOW POWER button for 30 seconds -> Set "Power Down Timeout"
NOTE: "Power Down Timeout" is the amount of inactivity time before system automatically shuts down if the lamp is off. I figured I'd create this setting in case someone wants to use the display for a night light. This setting remains until changed, whereas "Lamp Off Timer" applies only to the current lamp power cycle.
Touch focus slider -> Go to absolute focus position where touched
Slide focus slider -> Move focus position tracking slide movement
Hold focus slider for 10 seconds -> Set Focus
Touch PLAY button -> Play animation
Hold PLAY button for 10 seconds -> Record animation
NOTE: Record animation will have to be a two-step process. First to record the beam spread actions. Then the beam spread actions are played back while recording the flash & dim actions.
Hold LAMP POWER button for 10 seconds -> Set "Lamp Off Timer"
Hold LAMP POWER button for 30 seconds -> Set "Lamp Power Button Delay"
Hold LAMP POWER button for "Lamp Power Button Delay" -> Turn lamp on/off
NOTE: "Lamp Power Button Delay" is a configurable setting to determine the amount of time required to hold the power button to turn lamp on/off. Delay can be set up to 5 seconds.
Touch BRIGHTNESS -> Cycle display brightness level
Hold BRIGHTNESS BUTTON for 30 seconds -> Reset lamp hours
Hold KEY LOCK button for 3 seconds -> Buttons locked, except beam adjust
Hold KEY LOCK button for 10 seconds -> System Lockout
Hold KEY LOCK button for 30 seconds -> Reset password
NOTE: Key Lock can be enabled even when lamp is on, although beam focus will still function. The purpose of enabling key lock even when lamp is on is to prevent inadvertent button presses in adverse use conditions.
NOTE: System Lockout requires password entry for any new actions. Can be enabled even when lamp is on. Not even beam focus will function. Prevents use by other people while system is on.
Security:
-All actions require password entry, just once per power cycle, unless no password is set.
Illuminated Keypad Mode:
-In center of slider is a keypad which only illuminates during functions "Reset Password", "Set Lamp Off Timer", "Lamp Power Button Delay", and "Set Power Down Timeout", or any time when prompted for password. Other buttons are dimmed during keypad entry. No room for "zero" on the keypad. Zero is more important than 9, so zero replaces 9 on the keypad...
What's nice about this display is there is no worry of the electronic display going bad, especially after it's gone out of production. I could still include a serial connection port for connecting with a separate touch screen to access system stats and remote control. So far, this one is my favorite. Physical buttons are always better than images of buttons on a screen and this display makes full use of that.
Keypad Mode:
EDIT - Printable PDF
Updated the additional functions.
For anyone still craving a display with meters etc, I could make the serial port also have a mount for a detachable display. Cool things coming out, a Transparent OLED would be nice.
Left Buttons are FLASH, PLAY, LOW POWER
Right Buttons are LAMP POWER, SCREEN BRIGHTNESS, KEY LOCK
Button Actions -> Functions:
Touch FLASH button -> Intermittent flash
Hold FLASH button for 5 seconds -> Flash remains on
Touch LOW POWER button -> Intermittent low power
Hold LOW POWER button for 5 seconds -> Low power remains on
Hold LOW POWER button for 30 seconds -> Set "Power Down Timeout"
NOTE: "Power Down Timeout" is the amount of inactivity time before system automatically shuts down if the lamp is off. I figured I'd create this setting in case someone wants to use the display for a night light. This setting remains until changed, whereas "Lamp Off Timer" applies only to the current lamp power cycle.
Touch focus slider -> Go to absolute focus position where touched
Slide focus slider -> Move focus position tracking slide movement
Hold focus slider for 10 seconds -> Set Focus
Touch PLAY button -> Play animation
Hold PLAY button for 10 seconds -> Record animation
NOTE: Record animation will have to be a two-step process. First to record the beam spread actions. Then the beam spread actions are played back while recording the flash & dim actions.
Hold LAMP POWER button for 10 seconds -> Set "Lamp Off Timer"
Hold LAMP POWER button for 30 seconds -> Set "Lamp Power Button Delay"
Hold LAMP POWER button for "Lamp Power Button Delay" -> Turn lamp on/off
NOTE: "Lamp Power Button Delay" is a configurable setting to determine the amount of time required to hold the power button to turn lamp on/off. Delay can be set up to 5 seconds.
Touch BRIGHTNESS -> Cycle display brightness level
Hold BRIGHTNESS BUTTON for 30 seconds -> Reset lamp hours
Hold KEY LOCK button for 3 seconds -> Buttons locked, except beam adjust
Hold KEY LOCK button for 10 seconds -> System Lockout
Hold KEY LOCK button for 30 seconds -> Reset password
NOTE: Key Lock can be enabled even when lamp is on, although beam focus will still function. The purpose of enabling key lock even when lamp is on is to prevent inadvertent button presses in adverse use conditions.
NOTE: System Lockout requires password entry for any new actions. Can be enabled even when lamp is on. Not even beam focus will function. Prevents use by other people while system is on.
Security:
-All actions require password entry, just once per power cycle, unless no password is set.
Illuminated Keypad Mode:
-In center of slider is a keypad which only illuminates during functions "Reset Password", "Set Lamp Off Timer", "Lamp Power Button Delay", and "Set Power Down Timeout", or any time when prompted for password. Other buttons are dimmed during keypad entry. No room for "zero" on the keypad. Zero is more important than 9, so zero replaces 9 on the keypad...
What's nice about this display is there is no worry of the electronic display going bad, especially after it's gone out of production. I could still include a serial connection port for connecting with a separate touch screen to access system stats and remote control. So far, this one is my favorite. Physical buttons are always better than images of buttons on a screen and this display makes full use of that.
Keypad Mode:
EDIT - Printable PDF
Updated the additional functions.
For anyone still craving a display with meters etc, I could make the serial port also have a mount for a detachable display. Cool things coming out, a Transparent OLED would be nice.
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If I digested all this correctly, the buttons are physical buttons on a membrane surface that is backlit? Or maybe the original capacitive buttons shown earlier in the thread? Will the user be able to choose a backlit color from options or a one-shot choice? There is a small OLED incorporated that shows the text. Some of those button press times are really long.
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get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
This is a functional outline and I can change the button press times as needed. Time suggestions would be helpful.
I would like to go with an RGB LED back lighting so the user can change color and brightness of the display, but I'm not sure if there will be enough com pins to handle RGB, seeing as though two separate LED signals are already needed for the buttons and separate numeric key pad. And I need to ensure reserve for serial communication for remote control etc.
Here's the order of the display structure components from the inside out:
1. LED(s) for back lighting
2. Transparent film that has been screen printed so that only the buttons allow the backlight to pass through.
3. Transparent touch panel mounted to the housing.
The top contact surface is completely flat. I described this display type as "physical" as opposed to "graphic" because what you "see" are actual physical objects rather than graphic images on a digital screen attempting to emulate the look of actual physical objects. The luminosity gradients, shadowing, and nuances of actual illuminated buttons are all there. It's a much more polished look. The best I can describe the difference is like the looking at the fine detail of the brush strokes of a painting versus looking at a picture of the painting on a computer screen. It's just not the real deal.
Also, regarding the display surface... there are two types of touch screens, resistive and capacitive. Resistive reads slight pressure to triangulate touch position. To make touch pressure easier to detect, the top surface layer is a transparent durable hard film rather than glass.
Capacitive is all glass, but reads electrical conductance of the object touching the screen to triangulate touch position, and therefore requires touch by a conductive object. So gloves won't work. Capacitive also won't work unless there's at lease 5% humidity and no EMI. Capacitive also has issues with condensation and water drops, especially salt water.
This light must be useable with gloves, and in all weather conditions, including low humidity, rain, and adverse nautical weather with salt spray. The HV ignitor also generates lots of EMI during lamp ignition. All of this rules out a capacitive type screen, which leaves the resistive type.
The plus side for resistive rather than capacitive in this application is that resistive is a more of a "deliberate" touch method. You're less likely to accidentally nip the surface and trigger a button.
The downside to the film surface of resistive screens is they are not as durable as all glass, good for 5 million touches vs 25 million, and 500,000 gouges (of a certain size and pressure) vs 2.5 million gouges. The film is also not as clear as glass, causing a 3-5% distortion/blurring of the passing light, but not really that noticeable. What is noticeable is that the film causes reflections in sunlight, making it harder to read in the daytime. But this doesn't apply in dark where a searchlight is only used anyhow. Same with my GPS, I see the added glare in the day, although it's not bad at all, and no glare at night.
Although a rarity, resistive type touch screens with a glass top surface can be made, but it requires about 5 times the touch pressure than the film type. Therefore, all glass resistive is not the best for slide/swipe action. Also, dry glass has more sliding friction on the finger than the slippery film. A resistive glass type touch screen is the worst combination for sliding/swiping.
My Garmin Edge 800 is the resistive film type, and it's incredibly strong. I never even realized it wasn't glass until I recently learned about touch screens. My whole point is, I would like to make everyone aware that I would like to use the resistive film type because of its usability advantage, and not to be weary. Durable resistive film type is commonly used in industrial controls.
I would like to go with an RGB LED back lighting so the user can change color and brightness of the display, but I'm not sure if there will be enough com pins to handle RGB, seeing as though two separate LED signals are already needed for the buttons and separate numeric key pad. And I need to ensure reserve for serial communication for remote control etc.
Here's the order of the display structure components from the inside out:
1. LED(s) for back lighting
2. Transparent film that has been screen printed so that only the buttons allow the backlight to pass through.
3. Transparent touch panel mounted to the housing.
The top contact surface is completely flat. I described this display type as "physical" as opposed to "graphic" because what you "see" are actual physical objects rather than graphic images on a digital screen attempting to emulate the look of actual physical objects. The luminosity gradients, shadowing, and nuances of actual illuminated buttons are all there. It's a much more polished look. The best I can describe the difference is like the looking at the fine detail of the brush strokes of a painting versus looking at a picture of the painting on a computer screen. It's just not the real deal.
Also, regarding the display surface... there are two types of touch screens, resistive and capacitive. Resistive reads slight pressure to triangulate touch position. To make touch pressure easier to detect, the top surface layer is a transparent durable hard film rather than glass.
Capacitive is all glass, but reads electrical conductance of the object touching the screen to triangulate touch position, and therefore requires touch by a conductive object. So gloves won't work. Capacitive also won't work unless there's at lease 5% humidity and no EMI. Capacitive also has issues with condensation and water drops, especially salt water.
This light must be useable with gloves, and in all weather conditions, including low humidity, rain, and adverse nautical weather with salt spray. The HV ignitor also generates lots of EMI during lamp ignition. All of this rules out a capacitive type screen, which leaves the resistive type.
The plus side for resistive rather than capacitive in this application is that resistive is a more of a "deliberate" touch method. You're less likely to accidentally nip the surface and trigger a button.
The downside to the film surface of resistive screens is they are not as durable as all glass, good for 5 million touches vs 25 million, and 500,000 gouges (of a certain size and pressure) vs 2.5 million gouges. The film is also not as clear as glass, causing a 3-5% distortion/blurring of the passing light, but not really that noticeable. What is noticeable is that the film causes reflections in sunlight, making it harder to read in the daytime. But this doesn't apply in dark where a searchlight is only used anyhow. Same with my GPS, I see the added glare in the day, although it's not bad at all, and no glare at night.
Although a rarity, resistive type touch screens with a glass top surface can be made, but it requires about 5 times the touch pressure than the film type. Therefore, all glass resistive is not the best for slide/swipe action. Also, dry glass has more sliding friction on the finger than the slippery film. A resistive glass type touch screen is the worst combination for sliding/swiping.
My Garmin Edge 800 is the resistive film type, and it's incredibly strong. I never even realized it wasn't glass until I recently learned about touch screens. My whole point is, I would like to make everyone aware that I would like to use the resistive film type because of its usability advantage, and not to be weary. Durable resistive film type is commonly used in industrial controls.
Wow, you've been busy again. I was looking at the concepts and wondering if it needed that OLED display or not. Not totally sure yet. I think overall I like the latest version without OLED more but there might be some situation where digital display might be nice. If I wanted to record an animation and held the PLAY button for ten seconds how would I know when exactly the mode has been activated if there is no display to indicate something? Would there be a "beeb" sound. And could the user still sometimes become lost in some mode like LOW POWER if nothing on the display indicates that it has been activated. Maybe I created nonexisting problems by not understanding everything yet. I tried hard to locate trouble in the design.:)
OK, I got it now. Resistive certainly sound like the best way to go. Will give some thought to push and hold times and post later.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
ez78, the back-light will flash to confirm actions. When recording, the user would press a button to end the recording cycle on their own, so they can determine the length of the animation as needed. Most functions are mutually exclusive, so you can't really get lost in one. The current mode would end when another is started. There may be some special circumstances that need addressed. The overly long button hold times for special functions is specifically intended to prevent such confusion.
BVH, I forgot to address your question about the OLED in the last display version... there is no OLED. The center numeric keypad is an isolated back-lit region with separate white LED.
I'm working on a new version in which that center area in the slider is an OLED for navigating functions, although not really necessary with the last version already including most functionality. The center OLED in the next version will give the added ability to see stats, meters, run-time, and beam angle. Much like the version in post #887 but with a much larger OLED due a different allocation of space. Once I have this next one ready, I'd like to see which method is preferred among it and the last one in post #889.
BVH, I forgot to address your question about the OLED in the last display version... there is no OLED. The center numeric keypad is an isolated back-lit region with separate white LED.
I'm working on a new version in which that center area in the slider is an OLED for navigating functions, although not really necessary with the last version already including most functionality. The center OLED in the next version will give the added ability to see stats, meters, run-time, and beam angle. Much like the version in post #887 but with a much larger OLED due a different allocation of space. Once I have this next one ready, I'd like to see which method is preferred among it and the last one in post #889.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
Ok this is the display version to compare against the entirely "physical" display in post #889. This display version has a "physical" buttons on the left side and an "electronic" display on the right side, the largest OLED available.
The right side toggles between the focus slider and the settings menu, by touching (or holding if we prefer) the "SETTINGS" icon on the left side. When in "SETTINGS" mode, this OLED is large enough to click through settings by touching the settings within the OLED itself, rather than using separate UP/DOWN/ENTER buttons.
On the other hand, while the focus slider is in "FOCUS" mode instead of "SETTINGS" mode, we can also display as many, or as few, features as we'd like within the focus slider itself using the OLED. For instance, we could allocate the beam spread degrees, the meters in large or small format, the run-time, etc, or completely blank if we prefer.
The advantage of this display is that it has the dynamic convenience features of the largest OLED available, while also being fully capable of operating without the OLED because the primary controls on the left are "physical" and not part of the OLED.
Because the space for the OLED display is so large, if the display becomes damaged and this display is no longer in production, we have leeway to go with a different display of comparable size.
At this point, I like both of these last two display variations. I'm sure which I end up preferring will come to me with some time to digest the differences and benefits of both, and I'd like to get feedback from you all once you've had time to really consider both as well.
The right side toggles between the focus slider and the settings menu, by touching (or holding if we prefer) the "SETTINGS" icon on the left side. When in "SETTINGS" mode, this OLED is large enough to click through settings by touching the settings within the OLED itself, rather than using separate UP/DOWN/ENTER buttons.
On the other hand, while the focus slider is in "FOCUS" mode instead of "SETTINGS" mode, we can also display as many, or as few, features as we'd like within the focus slider itself using the OLED. For instance, we could allocate the beam spread degrees, the meters in large or small format, the run-time, etc, or completely blank if we prefer.
The advantage of this display is that it has the dynamic convenience features of the largest OLED available, while also being fully capable of operating without the OLED because the primary controls on the left are "physical" and not part of the OLED.
Because the space for the OLED display is so large, if the display becomes damaged and this display is no longer in production, we have leeway to go with a different display of comparable size.
At this point, I like both of these last two display variations. I'm sure which I end up preferring will come to me with some time to digest the differences and benefits of both, and I'd like to get feedback from you all once you've had time to really consider both as well.
I like the above solution. I think I just like the capability to show different and live functions instead of being limited to whatever is printed on the physical display. I also like the ability to click through settings by touching the settings within the OLED itself, rather than using separate UP/DOWN/ENTER buttons. Having the OLED would possibly allow new and un-thought of capabilities to be programmed into the lights controller and therefore displayed to the user to take advantage of whereas the purely physical display would have to be changed out. It's sort of future-proofing the light.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm thinking the bottom line for me is that this particular "Physical"/"Electronic" display combo gives the advantages you mention, while also addressing my two primary concerns of the light remaining operational in the field in the event of screen failure, and OLED substitution leeway if the current OLED runs out of production. I don't see any negatives, other than additional programming and a bit more assembly complexity. The additional programming will be significant in the case of OLED displays because 4D Systems does not have the quick and easy development tool for their OLEDs as they do for the LCDs, but the additional work would be worth it if it results in a more all around refined light.
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
The touch panel manufacturer is offering me an incredible deal if order 100 units now, but I would first like for others here print out the drawing of the control and see how well it sizes up.
Printable Display Drawing PDF
Printable Display Drawing PDF
Based on this I'm all in with the glass touch panel. Glad you're taking the time to cut off potential issues at the pass. Awesome!
get-lit
Flashlight Enthusiast
Patriot we are now comparing it to the latest display in post #595 which has both a physical display and an electronic display, in which the searchlight would remain fully operable in the event of a broken electronic display. The analogy of the display being the weakest link does not apply in this new version because it's control system does not rely on the display to operate.
Also, would you mind printing out the PDF in post #898 and see how well it sizes up for you.
Also, would you mind printing out the PDF in post #898 and see how well it sizes up for you.
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