Modern. 380 rounds vs 9mm

[xxo]

Evan Marshall did a lot of good work with one shot stops of specific handgun loads back in the 80's and 90's. I think he was on the right track, but newer statistics looking a failure rates by caliber give a little different perspective:



The current prevailing view among most law enforcement agencies is that calibers such as 45, 40 and 357 SIG are no more effective than the current best performing 9 mm loads. Personally, I am of the opinion that the best loads in 45 and 40 are still a little more effective than the best 9 mm loads, but today the difference is nowhere near as big as it was back in the 90's.

The main reason law enforcement agencies are going back to 9's is primarily due to shootability/accuracy as reflected in qualification scores. More rounds in the magazine and lower cost ammo are bonuses.


It is true that 380's tend to have small grips and can be harder to shoot that bigger guns, but it is not always the case. I find that the BG 2.0 gives me a better/full fingered grip than the larger shield plus 9. S&W did a better job on the ergonomics on the BG 2.0 grip, though the Shield Plus does have a thicker grip which is good along with a slightly longer sight radius and much better sights. The BG 2.0 has the advantage of lower recoil and a much lower bore axis. I suppose I can shoot the shield a little better, but only with the extended 13 and 15 round mags.

I may have been wrong about shooting the shield plus better than the bodyguard 2.0, shot a qual course with each and I shot the BG 2.0 considerably better using the 13 rd mag for the Sheild and mostly the 12 rd mag for the BG with one stage using the 10 rd flush fit mag. I am amazed at the accuracy and shootability of the little BG 2.0.

 

[orbital]

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Was watching some of this guys vids on hollowpoint testing, cracks me up 'cause he reminds me of a roommate from like 30 years ago.
anyway, good hollowpoint tests and I noticed this one for yaa'llll

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Well, I know this thread is about the .380 vs 9mmP, but, I came across this study and found it very well done scientifically. If you have been into firearms for some time, you know the name brassfetcher, and have likely seen his high speed gel tests. Anyway, take a read of this, and if you want to save reading 47 pages, just go to pages 48 and 49 for the bottom line.

https://www.brassfetcher.com/A%20terminal%20ballistics%20comparison%20of%209mm%20Luger%20and%2045%20Auto%20ammunition.pdf

 

[orbital]

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I'd like to see gel tests from much further away, like 10 yards and beyond

10 yards is nothing

 

[dc38]

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I'd like to see gel tests from much further away, like 10 yards and beyond

10 yards is nothing

True, but it could constitute the average engagement distance.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Now this link is relevant to the original topic. I haven't read much of it yet, but it looks like the mother load. :)

380 ACP

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Well, I know this thread is about the .380 vs 9mmP, but, I came across this study and found it very well done scientifically. If you have been into firearms for some time, you know the name brassfetcher, and have likely seen his high speed gel tests. Anyway, take a read of this, and if you want to save reading 47 pages, just go to pages 48 and 49 for the bottom line.

https://www.brassfetcher.com/A%20terminal%20ballistics%20comparison%20of%209mm%20Luger%20and%2045%20Auto%20ammunition.pdf

Perhaps a summary someone would like to give?

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Perhaps a summary someone would like to give?

Well, if you had gone to pages 47 and 48, you would have gotten the summary.

It boils down to .45 ACP =more better than 9mmP.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Well, I had bought into the Hornady Critical Defense for .380ACP, and now I'm going back to WWB FMJ (Q4206) that I had started out with. Best penetration according to brassfetcher, although for some odd reason he doesn't color it green as being optimal like he did with the Rem. 95 gr. FMJ.

 

[xxo]

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Was watching some of this guys vids on hollowpoint testing, cracks me up 'cause he reminds me of a roommate from like 30 years ago.
anyway, good hollowpoint tests and I noticed this one for yaa'llll

I like his vids, but ya gotta take his, and everyone else's, that use clear ballistic gel with a huge grain of salt. Many bullets that expand reliably in organic ordnance gel won't expand in clear ballistics and many of those that do expand and penetrate well will under penetrate in real gel. ballistic gel is for youtube vids, not serious ballistic testing. If real ordnance gel is too much of a hassle, water jugs work pretty well and can be converted into a accurate representation of penetration in organic gel.

Another good vid on the BG 2.0:

 

[dc38]

I like his vids, but ya gotta take his, and everyone else's, that use clear ballistic gel with a huge grain of salt. Many bullets that expand reliably in organic ordnance gel won't expand in clear ballistics and many of those that do expand and penetrate well will under penetrate in real gel. ballistic gel is for youtube vids, not serious ballistic testing. If real ordnance gel is too much of a hassle, water jugs work pretty well and can be converted into a accurate representation of penetration in organic gel.

Another good vid on the BG 2.0:

If it's shooting that wild out of the box, he might want to fully clean out the barrel. Some mfg, (like beretta) ship their weapons covered in anti-corrosion grease, that even a light cleaning doesn't get rid of.

 

[xxo]

If it's shooting that wild out of the box, he might want to fully clean out the barrel. Some mfg, (like beretta) ship their weapons covered in anti-corrosion grease, that even a light cleaning doesn't get rid of.

Didn't see where it was shooting wild. looked like his groups were good but it was shooting left, which is typical for this pistol for some reason.

The BG 2.0's seem to come very dry from the factory, but is always a good idea to clean off any oil/grease that may be there and relube with a good gun oil before shooting for the first time.

 

[orbital]

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Common knowledge, refreshers are always good.
If a pistol is shooting left, move the rear sight to the right.

Always asking, 'how do I have to move the front of the barrel to get the sights to line up'

I have one of these, works fine:
edit: Used some gasket material to protect slide from getting marred. Make sure the pusher is as low on sight as possible.

Amazon.com

 

[dc38]

Didn't see where it was shooting wild. looked like his groups were good but it was shooting left, which is typical for this pistol for some reason.

The BG 2.0's seem to come very dry from the factory, but is always a good idea to clean off any oil/grease that may be there and relube with a good gun oil before shooting for the first time.

the grouping was good at that closer range, but his initial grouping at 6ish yards seemed to be out of his control...it looked like a few inches of disparity, which I guess is feasible at 20 feet with a shorter barrel..

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Looks like a nice pistol, though I'm not wild about the trigger *****--it looks rather flimsy. If it broke off, you could not fire the pistol.

I wonder how the BG 2.0 compares to the KT P3AT and the Ruger LCP Max as far as size, weight and capacity. I kind of think I'd like to have an LCP Max, but not sure about the extra width. For pocket carry, you want thin.

 

[xxo]

Looks like a nice pistol, though I'm not wild about the trigger *****--it looks rather flimsy. If it broke off, you could not fire the pistol.

I wonder how the BG 2.0 compares to the KT P3AT and the Ruger LCP Max as far as size, weight and capacity. I kind of think I'd like to have an LCP Max, but not sure about the extra width. For pocket carry, you want thin.

 

[xxo]

the grouping was good at that closer range, but his initial grouping at 6ish yards seemed to be out of his control...it looked like a few inches of disparity, which I guess is feasible at 20 feet with a shorter barrel..

Looks like a nice sight pusher. Lyman makes a real nice one too:



you really need a sight pusher for S&W pistols - try to drift it with a punch and a hammer and you will likely break something before the sight will budge! If you don't have a sight pusher, take it to a good gunsmith.

 

[SCEMan]

Looks like a nice pistol, though I'm not wild about the trigger *****--it looks rather flimsy. If it broke off, you could not fire the pistol.

I wonder how the BG 2.0 compares to the KT P3AT and the Ruger LCP Max as far as size, weight and capacity. I kind of think I'd like to have an LCP Max, but not sure about the extra width. For pocket carry, you want thin.

IMHO there's no comparison. I had an LCP Max with an upgraded (no pinch) trigger and sold it as soon as I got (and test fired) my BG 2.0. The LCP Max has bigger/brighter sights but that's it.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

IMHO there's no comparison. I had an LCP Max with an upgraded (no pinch) trigger and sold it as soon as I got (and test fired) my BG 2.0. The LCP Max has bigger/brighter sights but that's it.

How do you carry your BG 2.0?

 

[raggie33]

The body guard 2 is the best self defense gun ever if you ask me