Modern. 380 rounds vs 9mm

[jtr1962]

Hopefully not get shot in the back.

Main thing, first priority, survive the violent encounter. Try to talk your way out of it if that opportunity presents itself. Not always the case. If you have to shoot, do so. Disengage at the first opportunity. Call the police immediately. Tell them you were in fear for your life. So you disengaged from the scene. You are close-by. You didn't run away. Tell them you were only trying to STOP your attacker. Do NOT let the police trick you into saying you wanted to kill him.

Then, you deal with the second aspect, in court. But the 2nd one doesn't mean a darn thing if you don't survive the 1st.

Our neck of the woods allows for pepper-spray to be bought and carried legally. But there are huge restrictions in place in terms of size. Still, it's legal. Find a pharmacy nearby that is authorized to sell it. Go there. Ask to buy it. You fill out a short form. And now you are legal to carry it. Look up online for the proper way to deploy it. It's definitely not just stand there, spray, and HOPE for the best. It's better than nothing.

I don't disagree but I have one additional concern. Who's to say a cop arriving at the scene won't just shoot me on the spot, even if my gun is holstered, then claim self-defense later? I trust the NYPD about as much as I trust most criminals. If it's near the end of the month and they haven't met their quotas, why not just take out a person who defended themselves, and claim that person was a perp? They already give bogus tickets out for exactly that reason.

This is why my strategy is to look blocks ahead, then if I see anyone who looks suspicious either walk on the other side of the street, or even better go down a side street then walk to a parallel road. I don't need to worry about being shot in the back from 2 or 3 blocks away. I also do the same if I see a stopped patrol car ahead. I'll assume they'll try to give me bogus red light or other tickets, even if I don't break any laws. So I just turn off the street at the nearest intersection.

The whole 2nd aspect is why I'll never carry a gun. Even if I beat any charges, I lose. Lawyers cost a fortune. Court cases drag on forever. There's also nothing to say I won't be sued by the perp or their next of kin. Civil court has lower standards for guilt than criminal court. For similar reasons I have no interest in driving. Same set of potential negative outcomes if I have momentary lapse of judgement. I worked too hard for what little I have to give it to either lawyers or perps. The laws need to change so the burden of proof is on the perp to prove excessive force was used.

Interesting about the pepper spray. That I may think about but I feel avoidance is the best strategy. That includes avoiding high-crime areas.

 

[Robocop]

As an active officer in good standing I have the luxury of being able to carry nationwide regardless of any state or local restrictions. The law enforcement safety act was designed for this purpose. It was done so to allow trained officers the ability to protect themselves or others anywhere in the nation. It is no secret that I carry everywhere I go off duty. Several years back I was off duty and inside a Radio Shack store when it was robbed by two men. Only one was armed and I remained calm and hidden as they both never saw me.

I did not intervene until the armed man pointed his weapon at a customer. I stepped around the corner and once he saw me and the barrel of that big old H&K 40 cal he decided to run. I was prepared to use force however thank goodness he just ran. My wife was in the car outside and had already phoned local police as she saw what was happening inside. They were both caught outside and I never had to fire a shot.

I can understand how many may be afraid to use deadly force however I refuse to live my life being afraid of lawsuits or anyone judging me after the fact. I could care less about any next of kin trying to drag me to court or some video of me on you tube being judged by the public. I will at least still be alive and again will not live in fear to protect myself. I simply can not imagine being so afraid of being judged or criticized by others that I will not defend myself or other helpless victims. If everyone was this concerned about liability after the fact real criminals would just run wild and terrorize the public. As far as the police mistaking a legally armed citizen as a threat I have never seen this happen personally in over 30 years. I know it has happened however again it is so very rare I will take those odds and continue to carry off duty. It is tragic that this has happened at all however I have never seen a case where a citizen was just standing there with a holstered weapon and was shot by police. Again this may have happened somewhere yet if so I do not know of any such situation.

I have seen hundreds of protests during my career and some were good people with concerns and others were just clueless idiots trying to get attention. I once spoke with a group of pacifist preaching a non violent lifestyle. I could understand some of their points however when asked how they would react to an armed intruder intent on harming their family I was just amazed. The group all agreed that they would just endure the violence and hope they were not killed. I absolutely can not imaging this mind set and thank God we have men alive today that will defend people who can not or will not do so themselves. So for the people afraid to react (for whatever reasons they believe) there are still others who will defend you. They will do so without fear of injury nor lawsuit and again thank God that we still have such people in the world.

People come up with all kinds of reasons why they will never carry a firearm. I am ok with anyone just simply not wanting to carry a weapon as some just are not comfortable with the idea. Again this is perfectly ok as we have the freedom to choose here in the U.S. I will not judge anyone for not wishing to arm themselves however I will carry for you and others who will not. I will also try my best to defend you and others even if you would not do so for me.

 

[jtr1962]

As an active officer in good standing I have the luxury of being able to carry nationwide regardless of any state or local restrictions. The law enforcement safety act was designed for this purpose. It was done so to allow trained officers the ability to protect themselves or others anywhere in the nation. It is no secret that I carry everywhere I go off duty. Several years back I was off duty and inside a Radio Shack store when it was robbed by two men. Only one was armed and I remained calm and hidden as they both never saw me.

I did not intervene until the armed man pointed his weapon at a customer. I stepped around the corner and once he saw me and the barrel of that big old H&K 40 cal he decided to run. I was prepared to use force however thank goodness he just ran. My wife was in the car outside and had already phoned local police as she saw what was happening inside. They were both caught outside and I never had to fire a shot.

I'm glad this had a good ending. The vast majority of officers I'm sure would prefer to go through their careers without ever needing to fire their weapon. Whether it's justified or not, taking a life is not an easy thing to live with.

I can understand how many may be afraid to use deadly force however I refuse to live my life being afraid of lawsuits or anyone judging me after the fact. I could care less about any next of kin trying to drag me to court or some video of me on you tube being judged by the public. I will at least still be alive and again will not live in fear to protect myself. I simply can not imagine being so afraid of being judged or criticized by others that I will not defend myself or other helpless victims. If everyone was this concerned about liability after the fact real criminals would just run wild and terrorize the public. As far as the police mistaking a legally armed citizen as a threat I have never seen this happen personally in over 30 years. I know it has happened however again it is so very rare I will take those odds and continue to carry off duty. It is tragic that this has happened at all however I have never seen a case where a citizen was just standing there with a holstered weapon and was shot by police. Again this may have happened somewhere yet if so I do not know of any such situation.

I'm afraid of the resulting financial ruin if the case ends up in court. I'm in a similar situation now on account of being scammed. If I'm unable to recover I plan to take my life. It would be the same if I faced financial ruin after a self-defense incident. I may survive initially, but the financial loss might eventually lead me to take my life. End result is pretty much the same as getting killed during the incident-I'm dead.

I personally think citizens who are permitted to carry should have to go through much more extensive training. As a perk for this they should receive qualified immunity like police officers. That would greatly mitigate the potential for financial harm after a justified shooting.

As for the police mistakenly shooting the citizen instead of the perp there's this:



I'm not necessarily blaming police when this happens. They arrive at a chaotic scene with seconds to try to sort things out. At the same time they face the very real possibility of getting shot themselves.

I have seen hundreds of protests during my career and some were good people with concerns and others were just clueless idiots trying to get attention. I once spoke with a group of pacifist preaching a non violent lifestyle. I could understand some of their points however when asked how they would react to an armed intruder intent on harming their family I was just amazed. The group all agreed that they would just endure the violence and hope they were not killed. I absolutely can not imaging this mind set and thank God we have men alive today that will defend people who can not or will not do so themselves. So for the people afraid to react (for whatever reasons they believe) there are still others who will defend you. They will do so without fear of injury nor lawsuit and again thank God that we still have such people in the world.

I've never understood being completely passive in such a situation. To be sure if escape was not possible I would use anything at hand to defend myself. In my house I have edged weapons hidden in various locations in case an intruder ever breaks in. Even if they have a firearm, I still have an advantage knowing the layout of the house, plus maybe having the element of surprise.

I'm not against having a firearm solely for home defense. The legalities are far more favorable to the victim, even in a place like NYC. If they're in the house you can legally kill them, no questions asked.

People come up with all kinds of reasons why they will never carry a firearm. I am ok with anyone just simply not wanting to carry a weapon as some just are not comfortable with the idea. Again this is perfectly ok as we have the freedom to choose here in the U.S. I will not judge anyone for not wishing to arm themselves however I will carry for you and others who will not. I will also try my best to defend you and others even if you would not do so for me.

I thank the world there are people willing and able to defend those of us who won't or can't defend themselves.

 

[alpg88]

Possible lawsuit is not a deterrent for me to carry or use if necessary, however civilians operate in completely different legal realm, cops will treat a fellow cop differently on the scene, DA will treat them differently. judges will treat them differently. So civilians need to think and operate differently in order to survive and not to spend years, decades, or the rest of the life in prison. And when you live in blue states that has 1000 different restrictions, and DA hell bent on putting you in prison for anything, judges outright say, "2nd does not exist in my courtroom" and still on the bench, you must think and act even more differently. What a cop can do, civilian would be arrested for just thinking of doing. But regardless of that, I always follow a policy, carry where it is legal, train often, situational awareness 100% of the time.

 

[xxo]

It is estimated that 90% of civilian defensive gun use does not involve firing a shot - displaying the firearm is all that is needed.

If someone asks about concealed carry, I don't try to convince them to carry, in fact if anything I try to tell them the down sides. Concealed carry or even gun ownership, is not for everyone, it is a awesome responsibility that requires maturity and a big commitment. If they are still interested, I tell them to take the class for the carry permit so that they have an idea what they are getting into and start off the right way.

 

[Robocop]

jtr1962 I can understand as to the concerns over civil liability however again there is absolutely nothing more important in my world than my own life and the life of my family. I could be flat broke eating dead crickets and cigarette butts off the street and I would still be happy to be alive. If I lost everything tomorrow each day I live after is a day that I would cherish. Material wealth and possessions come and go and I hold none of mine to be so important that I would give up my life if I lost them.

Happiness is truly a state of mind and this is the United States of America and in this country there are ways to get by. Sure they are not comfortable, they are not glamorous, and it may be embarrassing however I know drug addicts on the streets that have absolutely nothing and they get by. You may have to move to a different state or may even have to downsize and give up everything however it is possible to survive. The city I was in for 22 years had all kinds of programs for people. Yes you can eat 3 meals a day and have shelter however you have to put up with shelter food and shelter people yet again it can be done. I know that in your State there are thousands on the street without a single dime yet they find a way to eat and survive daily.

Most on the street do not utilize the programs because you have to have good behavior and not use drugs or show up drunk. So many stay drunk all day and scream about how they have been forgotten and left behind. No they have not there are options however again they come with restrictions and the need to learn to live with very little.....again embarrassing and uncomfortable however you will not just die of hunger in the U.S. if you can learn to live with much less than you do now.

Just last month I assisted a man in his 50s and he had absolutely not a single dime to his name. He had been a lifelong addict and suffered a stroke. The stroke was horrible however it did result in him getting off drugs. His story was pretty sad and when I encountered him he had a plastic bag with a half a bottle of Dr. Pepper and a bag of potato chips. This was his sole possessions other than the clothes he had on. He said he never had children and his wife had died from an overdose years earlier.

He had been wandering around from town to town and living off what strangers would give him. The one thing I admired in this man was obviously his life was pure hell however he never once thought of just ending it all. Yes he made a lifetime of poor decisions and may continue to do so yet he is strong enough to just keep going. In spite of it all he still appreciates every day he has left. I transported him to a shelter and have no idea what happened after I left. He did seem to be happy to have a place to rest and a meal....even if it was in a stinky shelter in a stinky town he was glad to be alive.

I consider you to be a friend here and sometimes your friends may say things that make you angry. Please do not take this the wrong way however in spite of your recent problems you are way ahead of that man dealing with a stroke and his only belongings being a bag of chips and a drink. I know your story and honestly you are placing all types of excuses in the way of just living. Your life has obviously changed quickly and it is hard to adapt yet again it can be done. Life is a gift and I will not tell you what to do with yours however as a friend I will tell you that brother there are literally thousands in this country that are way worse than you. Thousands that do not have half of what you have remaining and yet they still appreciate life and move on. For me personally there is not a single item I own nor any amount of lost money that is worth my life. If you take the time to look around you perhaps you will eventually feel the same.

 

[jtr1962]

jtr1962 I can understand as to the concerns over civil liability however again there is absolutely nothing more important in my world than my own life and the life of my family. I could be flat broke eating dead crickets and cigarette butts off the street and I would still be happy to be alive. If I lost everything tomorrow each day I live after is a day that I would cherish. Material wealth and possessions come and go and I hold none of mine to be so important that I would give up my life if I lost them.

Happiness is truly a state of mind and this is the United States of America and in this country there are ways to get by. Sure they are not comfortable, they are not glamorous, and it may be embarrassing however I know drug addicts on the streets that have absolutely nothing and they get by. You may have to move to a different state or may even have to downsize and give up everything however it is possible to survive. The city I was in for 22 years had all kinds of programs for people. Yes you can eat 3 meals a day and have shelter however you have to put up with shelter food and shelter people yet again it can be done. I know that in your State there are thousands on the street without a single dime yet they find a way to eat and survive daily.

Most on the street do not utilize the programs because you have to have good behavior and not use drugs or show up drunk. So many stay drunk all day and scream about how they have been forgotten and left behind. No they have not there are options however again they come with restrictions and the need to learn to live with very little.....again embarrassing and uncomfortable however you will not just die of hunger in the U.S. if you can learn to live with much less than you do now.

Just last month I assisted a man in his 50s and he had absolutely not a single dime to his name. He had been a lifelong addict and suffered a stroke. The stroke was horrible however it did result in him getting off drugs. His story was pretty sad and when I encountered him he had a plastic bag with a half a bottle of Dr. Pepper and a bag of potato chips. This was his sole possessions other than the clothes he had on. He said he never had children and his wife had died from an overdose years earlier.

He had been wandering around from town to town and living off what strangers would give him. The one thing I admired in this man was obviously his life was pure hell however he never once thought of just ending it all. Yes he made a lifetime of poor decisions and may continue to do so yet he is strong enough to just keep going. In spite of it all he still appreciates every day he has left. I transported him to a shelter and have no idea what happened after I left. He did seem to be happy to have a place to rest and a meal....even if it was in a stinky shelter in a stinky town he was glad to be alive.

I consider you to be a friend here and sometimes your friends may say things that make you angry. Please do not take this the wrong way however in spite of your recent problems you are way ahead of that man dealing with a stroke and his only belongings being a bag of chips and a drink. I know your story and honestly you are placing all types of excuses in the way of just living. Your life has obviously changed quickly and it is hard to adapt yet again it can be done. Life is a gift and I will not tell you what to do with yours however as a friend I will tell you that brother there are literally thousands in this country that are way worse than you. Thousands that do not have half of what you have remaining and yet they still appreciate life and move on. For me personally there is not a single item I own nor any amount of lost money that is worth my life. If you take the time to look around you perhaps you will eventually feel the same.

Thank you for this post. I also consider you a friend and I accept what you said here in that spirit. I'm not giving up any time soon. I realize many are living in far worse situations than myself, even if for many those situations are the result of a lifelong string of bad decisions. At times I've given money to such people, hoping it'll be used for food, not more drugs or alcohol.

Lately I've thought of a girl I crossed paths with at Penn Station when commuting to college. Her parents had kicked her out. No reason. She was a good student, didn't do drugs. She just turned 18. Her parents told her they no longer wished to support her. That was it. Take your things and leave. She had even wanted to go to college like me. I thought of the different worlds we lived in, how lucky I was despite some issues I was going through, like having my heart broken the year before. These problems were nothing compared to hers. My parents gave me a few dollars each day to eat. I ended up giving this to her whenever I saw her. I figured she needed it more than me. I never found out what happened to her. The next year I looked for her but she was gone. I hope someone who could help her took pity on her and took her in.

Life is still not bad for me. There was recently a new project which will help, plus I'm trying some market timing in my Roth IRA which so far is looking very promising. I never did this before. I wish I tried it years ago. Lots of fun actually trying to buy at the bottom and sell at the top.

The idea is to have multiple paths forward so if any one fails there is still hope. If the cryptocurrency ICO doesn't do well then what I'm doing now in my Roth IRA has a good shot at working, albeit over a longer time frame of perhaps a few years. The new project will hopefully give me enough liquidity to pay my bills. There's also a chance my friend will be able to access the money we both lost in the crypto scam soon. She's going through hard times, too. She had to sell everything of value she owns to raise money to pay for getting our money back. Sometimes she didn't eat for a few days. Now she just started a new job because she ran out of things to sell. Maybe we'll finally meet in person sometime this year.

Personally I think it's harder to adapt when you've had a lot but suddenly lose it, versus never having all that much. Paying bills was never a problem. Now I'm going month by month figuring it out. Hopefully this gets a little easier once some income starts coming in.

Yours is a voice of compassion in a country which sadly seems more and more devoid of this. I think that's affecting me as well. I long for the days when people cared more about each other and were less judgmental.

I know I'll get through this, perhaps end up better off than before. For all my life I've always thought of planning against worst case scenarios. This is the first time though I've actually needed these backup plans to work. Wish me luck.

 

[orbital]

+

Have this exact Beretta in .22LR ~ got it maybe 10 years ago (mine has a threaded barrel though)
easily my most fun gun to shoot,,, can enjoy hitting steel for an afternoon w/ friends and only spend $15 or $20 on .22LR rounds

It's a 92FS just like the 9mm, chambered in .22LR

 

[Robocop]

Orbital if you enjoy the 22LR take a look at the Taurus TX22. I have no doubt it is the best budget 22LR made today and performs way above its price. I have hundreds of trouble free rounds through mine and it will take any ammo you give it. I seriously have not found anything it will not feed reliably. I have several co-workers who also have the same experience with the TX-22. I have no idea how Taurus figured out the rimfire feeding problem however they did.

Palmetto State Armory has them on sale often my last purchase was the optics ready version with a few extra magazines and was only $259. They sell out fast as I just checked the site and it shows zero stock.