Armytek Wizard Pro Prototype Long-Term Testing

[tony613]

New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible



I came across this issue while riding my bicycle tonight. In my light I noticed from day one that there is space enough inside the tube to hear the battery rattling around when the light is tapped either on its side or end. The problem appears to occur when the light is jarred, causing an open circuit, and it occurs either when the switch LED indicators are enabled or disabled. This is demonstrated in the video when hitting the light on the tail cap which apparently compresses the spring enough to cause the circuit to open briefly.

As you can see in the video, the spring is slightly above the rim of the tail cap, just as I received it, and I am using the battery supplied by Armytek. The tail cap was screwed securely in place, and the switch indicator is enabled (different mode than previously reported issues). Note the jarring motion does not need to be that severe. In the video, whether you believe it or not, I'm not hitting the light that hard (especially the second time) and you can clearly hear the battery moving within the light tube.

When it occurred tonight, the light was mounted horizontally on my handlebars (see pictures below), on a road bike, while riding on a smooth road surface. After turning the light on it went off twice in about 10 minutes.

When this has occurred several things have happened. One you saw in the video where the light can be turned back on again. The other conditions I've seen have been that the light changed into tactical mode (light comes on only when pressure is applied to switch), and it has gone into "lockout mode" as well (unable to turn light on at all until end cap is loosened for several seconds).

 

[bradthebold]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

If the warranty is 10 years, what do you mean by the return period?



AFAIK from CPFMP threads, the engineers are still developing the fix. Fixing the lockout has been mentioned as the priority issue but if anyone has not been over there (marketplace) I strongly suggest you have a look.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...mytek-wizard&p=4768751&viewfull=1#post4768751

There are seven issues/suggestions Armytek are "trying to realize" in the new firmware. Not only are they looking to address the lockup and thermal indicator but are also trying to incorporate a few other changes based on requests from CPF (and other forums) members.

Like you Brad, I can live with the current issues in my light for a little while and would also prefer to wait until I can see the results of the new firmware after reports start coming in from those who get it. I understand that others may want or need a fix ASAP.

The whole business is certainly inconvenient but to be fair they are addressing the issues and responding to customer feedback. At this point they have acknowledged the faults and are "making it right" (apparently even including offering assistance with return postage?)
I am much more impressed with the way this is being handled than I am with the "wall-of-silence" approach adopted by a certain other company with switch boot problems.

I just meant I'm within the 30 day return period, so they could refund me and send a new one. I'm not sure, their way seems like it would be weeks without a light.

Thanks for the link too, those sound like great improvements and I would much rather wait until they are all implemented.

 

[bradthebold]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

I came across this issue while riding my bicycle tonight. In my light I noticed from day one that there is space enough inside the tube to hear the battery rattling around when the light is tapped either on its side or end. The problem appears to occur when the light is jarred, causing an open circuit, and it occurs either when the switch LED indicators are enabled or disabled. This is demonstrated in the video when hitting the light on the tail cap which apparently compresses the spring enough to cause the circuit to open briefly.

As you can see in the video, the spring is slightly above the rim of the tail cap, just as I received it, and I am using the battery supplied by Armytek. The tail cap was screwed securely in place, and the switch indicator is enabled (different mode than previously reported issues). Note the jarring motion does not need to be that severe. In the video, whether you believe it or not, I'm not hitting the light that hard (especially the second time) and you can clearly hear the battery moving within the light tube.

When it occurred tonight, the light was mounted horizontally on my handlebars (see pictures below), on a road bike, while riding on a smooth road surface. After turning the light on it went off twice in about 10 minutes.

When this has occurred several things have happened. One you saw in the video where the light can be turned back on again. The other conditions I've seen have been that the light changed into tactical mode (light comes on only when pressure is applied to switch), and it has gone into "lockout mode" as well (unable to turn light on at all until end cap is loosened for several seconds).

I gave this a try and the light shut off on the first bump. A new issue I didn't even know about.

 

[psychbeat]

The rattling battery is a problem I've had with my handlebar mounted flashlights.

I usually cure it with taping the cell &/or stretching the springs. Sometimes ill add an additional piece of copper braid to the tailcap spring to cut down some resistance and also to firm things up.

It's the trade off for being able to use protected or regular cells.

 

[Knight_Light]

tony613: Good catch on the problem. This definitely happens on the preproduction unit as well. The strange thing about this is I do a lot of physical activities and the headlamp has gotten jarred around and it never happened until I deliberately slapped the battery tube (and you are right it does not take much effort).

As psychbeat said this is a trade-off between the headlamp having the flexibility/ability to utilize unprotected and protected cells. I have had this issue with other lights in the past and there is an easy solution. Either switch to protected cells which are longer or get yourself some magnets to artificially enlarge the unprotected smaller cells. This works phenomenally well (the magnet solution).

I think if you were to change the design so that this phenomenon doesn’t happen with unprotected cells you would develop other problems such as protected large-size cells being crushed or not even being able to be utilized (this is a problem zebra light has with large cells). So I don’t really think that this needs to be fixed by the manufacturer as there really is no solution that would satisfy both protected and unprotected cells.

 

[Trevtrain]

So I don’t really think that this needs to be fixed by the manufacturer as there really is no solution that would satisfy both protected and unprotected cells.

I'm not suggesting Armytek needs to "fix" it for this headlamp, but don't some manufacturers put springs in both the tailcap and head for precisely this reason? (Lights designed for weapon mounting for instance?)

Obviously this would add a little extra length to the light but by using suitably sized springs with sufficient stiffness they should be able to accomdate a wide range of cell lengths.

 

[Knight_Light]

I'm not suggesting Armytek needs to "fix" it for this headlamp, but don't some manufacturers put springs in both the tailcap and head for precisely this reason? (Lights designed for weapon mounting for instance?)

Obviously this would add a little extra length to the light but by using suitably sized springs with sufficient stiffness they should be able to accomdate a wide range of cell lengths.

They do that with certain lights and it is actually a good idea on larger lights. But this is already a large sized headlamp if you were to incorporate this feature it would make it too big to EDC and you will turn away a larger consumer base. I honestly think they should just supply you with perfectly matched magnets that you can attach to unprotected cells. I know that it kind of sounds hokey, but not only does it work it works extremely well and is no difference then some of the charger manufacturers including spacers for smaller batteries.

 

[psychbeat]

I'm not suggesting Armytek needs to "fix" it for this headlamp, but don't some manufacturers put springs in both the tailcap and head for precisely this reason? (Lights designed for weapon mounting for instance?)

Obviously this would add a little extra length to the light but by using suitably sized springs with sufficient stiffness they should be able to accomdate a wide range of cell lengths.

Nope- it still happens with two spring lights - like most p60 hosts.

U just need to wrap it with a slip of paper (for friction) or tape or stretch the spring or add another spring or magnet. Etc.

Or buy longer cells - I prefer unprotected in single cell lights so frequently have to tune my springs to combat this phenomenon :)

 

[Trevtrain]

Hmmmm....?

So I guess weapon lights would often be single-mode clickies where a momentary interruption to the circuit would not matter/cause a change of state.

I am assuming you would put the magnet at the tailcap end (-ve) of the cell?
If put at the positive end, do you think that a magnet would pose much risk of moving and shorting against any of the contact points shown on the back of the driver? (Probably with very unhappy results.)

 

[tony613]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible


I understood why the extra space was provided, but the additional information is still welcome. However this problem occurs with the Wizard using protected batteries as well. Note it happens more easily and more often in higher output modes, with both battery sizes/types.
The protected battery in my case:
Eagletac 3100mAh Protected Cell - Manufacturer Dimensions: 18.6mm x 68mm (+/-0.1mm)

For comparison: (also see picture below)
Armytek Supplied Panasonic 3100mAh Unprotected Cell - Manufacturer Dimensions: 18.6mm x 65.2mm

The light going dark while being jarred issue does not and has never occurred with the Zebralight H600w using the longer, protected battery, nor has that light "crushed" the longer battery, as has been suggested. To the contrary, the protected battery has worked without exception in the H600w for 19 months, with the H600w being put to harder use than the Wizard Pro. The longer protected battery does have swirl scratches on the bottom from the pressure of the spring on the H600w tail cap, occurring during battery changes/charges. These appear to be only cosmetic and have not affected the capability of the battery.

Additionally, the shorter, unprotected battery also works without issue in the H600w, without modification to the battery or the headlamp.

 

[Knight_Light]

I am assuming you would put the magnet at the tailcap end (-ve) of the cell?

Yes you would put the magnet at the tail cap end.

 

[Knight_Light]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

I understood why the extra space was provided, but the additional information is still welcome. However this problem occurs with the Wizard using protected batteries as well. Note it happens more easily and more often in higher output modes, with both battery sizes/types.
The protected battery in my case:
Eagletac 3100mAh Protected Cell - Manufacturer Dimensions: 18.6mm x 68mm (+/-0.1mm)

For comparison: (also see picture below)
Armytek Supplied Panasonic 3100mAh Unprotected Cell - Manufacturer Dimensions: 18.6mm x 65.2mm

The light going dark while being jarred issue does not and has never occurred with the Zebralight H600w using the longer, protected battery, nor has that light "crushed" the longer battery, as has been suggested. To the contrary, the protected battery has worked without exception in the H600w for 19 months, with the H600w being put to harder use than the Wizard Pro. The longer protected battery does have swirl scratches on the bottom from the pressure of the spring on the H600w tail cap, occurring during battery changes/charges. These appear to be only cosmetic and have not affected the capability of the battery.

Additionally, the shorter, unprotected battery also works without issue in the H600w, without modification to the battery or the headlamp.

Although the Eagletac battery is an awesome battery it is a poor choice for this example as it is considerably shorter then most other protected cells. There are a lot of longer protected batteries that have an issue with zebra light battery tubes.

 

[ArcticHighlander]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

I understood why the extra space was provided, but the additional information is still welcome. However this problem occurs with the Wizard using protected batteries as well. Note it happens more easily and more often in higher output modes, with both battery sizes/types.
The protected battery in my case:
Eagletac 3100mAh Protected Cell - Manufacturer Dimensions: 18.6mm x 68mm (+/-0.1mm)

For comparison: (also see picture below)
Armytek Supplied Panasonic 3100mAh Unprotected Cell - Manufacturer Dimensions: 18.6mm x 65.2mm

The light going dark while being jarred issue does not and has never occurred with the Zebralight H600w using the longer, protected battery, nor has that light "crushed" the longer battery, as has been suggested. To the contrary, the protected battery has worked without exception in the H600w for 19 months, with the H600w being put to harder use than the Wizard Pro. The longer protected battery does have swirl scratches on the bottom from the pressure of the spring on the H600w tail cap, occurring during battery changes/charges. These appear to be only cosmetic and have not affected the capability of the battery.

Additionally, the shorter, unprotected battery also works without issue in the H600w, without modification to the battery or the headlamp.

I do think that this is a problem that can and should be fixed by Armytek. As you described all lights that are made to take both protected and unprotected batteries don't have this problem and they wouldn't have to make it too large for everyday carry to accommodate both reliably. I also have the much smaller H600 and also can't reproduce this problem using batteries from 65mm to 70mm both protected and unprotected. I can't check to see if my particular Wizard Pro had this problem because I already shipped it back to be replaced because of other defects. It does appear however that this is another common problem that can and should be fixed by Armytek before they start shipping out replacements. I'm amazed at the excuses being made for such a clear defect in this light.

 

[Knight_Light]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

I do think that this is a problem that can and should be fixed by Armytek. As you described all lights that are made to take both protected and unprotected batteries don't have this problem and they wouldn't have to make it too large for everyday carry to accommodate both reliably. I also have the much smaller H600 and also can't reproduce this problem using batteries from 65mm to 70mm both protected and unprotected. I can't check to see if my particular Wizard Pro had this problem because I already shipped it back to be replaced because of other defects. It does appear however that this is another common problem that can and should be fixed by Armytek before they start shipping out replacements. I'm amazed at the excuses being made for such a clear defect in this light.

I really don’t think this is a defect. This is a design decision that they made. Remember 18650 batteries are no longer standard, they vary greatly from one another in size. This is a design decision to be able to incorporate different size batteries. If they made the battery tube the perfect size for the unprotected cell that they sell (me personally I would be okay with this since this is primarily the battery I use) you would have issues with larger batteries.

An easy solution would be to include spacers (just like chargers do) for shorter batteries, the best spacers I can think of would be magnetic attaching to the bottom of the battery (this solution has worked successfully for other lights that had this problem).

 

[psychbeat]

Yah- u can't win with this one.

Plenty of posts about crushed cells in multiple brands.


I've had to tailor/tune the springs in quite a few lights:

4sevens mini123
Surefire C-2 bored w mcClicky
Multiple Solarforce L2Ps & L2M
Fivemega dual 18650 P60 Dsize
And even the battery box of my Cavelight had to be adjusted for the cells I'm using in it.

My Spark has really stiff springs & has slightly dented a couple of cells too.

Just sayin...

 

[ArcticHighlander]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

I really don’t think this is a defect. This is a design decision that they made. Remember 18650 batteries are no longer standard, they vary greatly from one another in size. This is a design decision to be able to incorporate different size batteries. If they made the battery tube the perfect size for the unprotected cell that they sell (me personally I would be okay with this since this is primarily the battery I use) you would have issues with larger batteries.

An easy solution would be to include spacers (just like chargers do) for shorter batteries, the best spacers I can think of would be magnetic attaching to the bottom of the battery (this solution has worked successfully for other lights that had this problem).

Tony613 is having this problem both with a 65mm unprotected and a 68mm protected battery. It sounds like it doesn't matter what size/type battery is used; it appears to be a defect in the light. He also said it happens more easily and frequently in the higher output modes with both sizes/types of batteries.

 

[Knight_Light]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

Tony613 is having this problem both with a 65mm unprotected and a 68mm protected battery. It sounds like it doesn't matter what size/type battery is used; it appears to be a defect in the light. He also said it happens more easily and frequently in the higher output modes with both sizes/types of batteries.

Like I said before the Eagletac battery is an awesome battery, however it is a poor choice for this example as it is considerably shorter then most other protected cells. They can shorten the battery tube but then everybody will complain about the longer batteries not been able to fit. I personally would be fine with this decision since I primarily use unprotected cells. The best solution is to leave it the way that it is and incorporate magnetic spacers.

 

[Beacon of Light]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

Considering we bought a light that should work without problems right from the factory, whose dime will this be on to get these magnetic spacers? Armytek going to send us out free magnetic spacers?

 

[Knight_Light]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

Considering we bought a light that should work without problems right from the factory, whose dime will this be on to get these magnetic spacers? Armytek going to send us out free magnetic spacers?

Sending them out for free would be ridiculous considering they cost about 3 for a dollar. Lol

Having said that I think they should be included with new purchases by the manufacturer as a means of adjusting spring tension.

 

[Beacon of Light]

Re: New issue with Wizard Pro, 100% reproducible

you think a customer should eat the cost of an improper R&D done by the engineers when said light fails once in a customers hands? If this was a car, then this would be a typical recall issue not a cosmetic upgrade or add-on.