Coronavirus - II

[bykfixer]

Regarding wearing masks for long periods, it just gets old after a while. They restrict breathing. Until you get used to wearing one it just feels unnatural. It becomes uncomfortable after a while. Without a proper exhaust vent we are possibly taking in a mixture of fresh air and our exhaust at the same time. It's my understanding why true N95's have a one way exhaust port.

I just left a facility where everybody was wearing a mask except the greeter. They check your temperature before you enter and once in the door the lady who points you left, right or straight did not even have one draped down. I'm typing this in a parking lot where even folks like me waiting outside are social distancing our vehicles in every other parking spot.

So how do we begin to continue life while taking on the risk of catching a novel virus? Too much fear will drown us. Too much relaxing right now will also be a killer of some. My view is to continue to promote responsible behavior by example and we'll be ok.

 

[idleprocess]

So the answer is give up caring? It doesn't have to be that way.

Nope. My point is that defecit hawks might ought to have had their hackles up far earlier in the game during the good times when such activity was less beneficial rather than now when it can greatly reduce the duration of a downturn at less overall cost to the economy. Also fixating on a potential last straw ignores prior contributory negligence that is just as complicit - much of it moreso.

 

[nbp]

I love the syntax of your sentences @idleprocess. In a world of 140 character tweet style sentences, complex sentence structure is a pleasure to read.

 

[lion504]

Also fixating on a potential last straw ignores prior contributory negligence that is just as complicit - much of it moreso.

Are you talking about negligence in tending the federal budget and debt? Or negligence in preparing for a pandemic? Can you elaborate?

 

[P_A_S_1]

The second thread, wow. Missed a lot of posts but skimming through I noticed masks with exhaust vents mentioned. They don't protect others from your exhalation which kind of negates the point of the mask.

 

[knucklegary]

I don't think it's the exhaled carbon dioxide experts are worried about

They don't want the uninfected caught in path of flying loogie droplets such as when sneezing or coughing

 

[P_A_S_1]

Correct however it's not just coughs/sneezes. Your exhaust can carry the virus too hence the ported masks negating their purpose.

Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.

 

[idleprocess]

Are you talking about negligence in tending the federal budget and debt? Or negligence in preparing for a pandemic? Can you elaborate?

This is in the context of the federal budget - deficit spending has been the norm for some 60+ years for a variety of reasons of varying degrees of urgency; my argument is that considerably little of it was necessary. Had we better matched expenditures to revenues we'd be carrying less debt and the government would have fewer constraints on stimulating the economy during a downturn.

Insofar as this round of debt being a last straw, it's weird to focus on this specific spending just because it is the most recent. You can find economists that oppose government deficits on ideological grounds but I expect precious few will argue that the practical impact of borrowing to stimulate the economy costs more - or is even comparable - to the costs of doing nothing as a recession wreaks havoc on the economy.

I for one do not look forward to the shorter-term reckoning that's coming when restrictions on foreclosures, evictions, and collections are lifted in the coming months - I expect that some entities will push forward, ruin lives who through no fault of their own could not pay, then discover there aren't many standing in line behind the collectees to mortgage, rent, buy/subscribe.

 

[idleprocess]

The second thread, wow. Missed a lot of posts but skimming through I noticed masks with exhaust vents mentioned. They don't protect others from your exhalation which kind of negates the point of the mask.

Ah, but your breath has to escape somehow and much of that is not going to be through the filter medium. As evidence I submit the problem of glasses fogging with common dust masks: positive pressure encourages air to seek easier means of egress than going out through the filter medium thus much of each exhalation escapes around the periphery - but does so in directions orthogonal to the direction one is facing, losing much velocity along the way. While exhaust valves do not diffuse the output so much as the perimeter of a simple mask, they still redirect the output and most designs I've seen also direct the breath downward.

Folks that wear eyeglasses are a large slice of the population; addressing the problem of glasses fogging through use of a better-designed mask makes wearing a mask more likely with less adjustment while being worn.

 

[knucklegary]

P A S 1 what floor are you on.. if you can physically use the stairwell, and wearing backpack to carry things, that is much safer than a elevator. Healthier too!

 

[ven]

My view is to continue to promote responsible behavior by example and we'll be ok.

Yep, my view to, just get on with it. Distance, PPE hopefully if available to the person, use it. Its easier IMHO to just get on with it, yes inconvenient, uncomfortable at times( 12hr shift with safety glasses, mask, washing hands all the time, gloves all adds up to = not much fun. I wear in work to protect others, i wear one when i go into a shop or supermarket.......to protect others. All i need is everyone else to do the same!

A chap actually called tom jones came back to work over a week back(not unusual!....yep he may get that a lot). He had 4 weeks off in total, his wife had it, then him. Put him on his a55 for a week, not as bad as his wife . Its real, its getting closer to home.

UK looking soon to relax some measures, i get the opening some businesses etc. But defo need the distancing, PPE for the general public to be able to get hold of. After all this effort by 95% of the UK population, would be a shame to undo it all in a few days. Thats all it will take, back to square 1!

As more strains get identified, now a strain/s in europe and US which now re-infect!
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...avirus-strain-sweeping-europe-and-us-11983554

Stay safe CPF

 

[P_A_S_1]

Lower floor so I walk the stairs but so do many, it's a building of over 500 apartments. I actually avoid the elevator for other reasons as it's become contentious and a source of problems between residents.

 

[knucklegary]

Yeah i would think different mindsets using stairs
Good you're near street level, and fresher outdoor air

 

[SCEMan]

Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.

I wonder what mask type was used for testing (cloth, paper or N95)?

 

[bykfixer]

Correct however it's not just coughs/sneezes. Your exhaust can carry the virus too hence the ported masks negating their purpose.

Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.

Some places ban masks with exhaust valves
https://www.fastcompany.com/90496717/what-is-a-mask-valve-and-why-are-cities-banning-them

Makes sense.
I was just responding to a comment about people taking them off during meetings etc.

I keep one on me but only deploy it when I feel the need such as being within 10' of people indoors. I have a pair of masks that don't let light through that have a slice of hepa filter between two layers of cotton cloth. A third one is the inexpensive coffee filter looking type for places like I went to earlier today where have to have a mask to get inside. I treated my glasses with toothpaste several days ago to act as an anti fog. Works pretty good until you clean the lenses. So it has to be reapplied every couple of days. Rain X anti fog works well too.

 

[StarHalo]

I'll throw this out there... SH- One of your big sticking points seems to be "A National Response." Put your President hat on for a minute and tell me what YOU would do, how you would pay for it, and how you'd enforce it in the United States.

Leave the NSC pandemic unit intact in 2018, heed the warnings present in Presidential briefings in January and openly share that information, declare National Lockdown as daily new cases enter triple digits in early March, National Lockdown includes mandatory enforcement of all CDC guidelines, begin national coordination of emergency supplies such as ventilators/PPE/tests, advocate national production drive of ventilators/PPE/tests and recruitment campaign for healthcare workers.

Had intervention been this early and uniformly applied, it would have severely slowed the curve where it was left unchecked by states unsure of what to do or not interested in participating. This would most likely have resulted in a flattened curve by the end of April - that would mean tens of thousands fewer deaths and we would already be in the return-to-work phase.

The timing for this scenario follows other countries that reacted early and nationally, this is not a pie-in-the-sky or monday-morning-quarterback synopsis - I sincerely believe that this is what most any other president in American history would have done purely reflexively as part of the means given to them, regardless of party or belief system.

 

[P_A_S_1]

Some places ban masks with exhaust valves
https://www.fastcompany.com/90496717/what-is-a-mask-valve-and-why-are-cities-banning-them

..... I treated my glasses with toothpaste several days ago to act as an anti fog. Works pretty good until you clean the lenses. So it has to be reapplied every couple of days. Rain X anti fog works well too.

I treat my swimming goggles with JJ baby shampoo as an anti fog. Works and is cheap.

 

[bykfixer]

I'll try that PAS1 as I have some for when the grandson visits.

Hey Star
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pandemic-team-idUSKBN21C32M
Read this.
It was streamlined not disbanded.

Oh and the corona task force has not been disbanded, it has pivoted towards post corona shock wave and will be focused on recovery.

The national stockpile was practically depleted after the swine flu out break. Many companies moved production of medical devices over seas due to taxes placed on production of said devices under the Affordable Care Act. That and the bulk of remaining supplies were overseas where they were ready for deployment to the armed services in combat zones at a moments notice. Operation air bridge brought humongous amounts of PPE back in a matter of days and were doled out to states as they requested it.

The governors were put in charge of their own situation so the a centralized one size fits all approach would instead be tailored to the needs of said states. As per this crazy old fashioned thing called the Constitution dictates. A public/privat partnership was created early on so instead of tests being done with 15 year old reagents that gave about 50% incorrect results after a probe was shoved down your nose until you gag only to have a 50/50 chance of being correct the private industry (ie greedy capitalists) created newer, better tests in a matter of a couple of weeks. Ones that can be done without the torture.

It was actually impressive how the American government banded together and got a lot done in a short time. Federal, State and Local. New York was a disaster waiting to happen. Millions stuffed into subways each day was a recipe for a massive outbreak. In early March their health director was still saying "pfft, don't sweat it". Talk about slow to act.

The army corp of engineers built tens of thousands of portable hospital rooms with electricity and oxygen in a matter of days. Massive numbers of national guard troops relieved over worked doctors and nurses while delivering millions upon millions of pieces of personal protective equipment to hardest hit areas. Often before the governor asked them to because the task force was on top of the numbers. It was a very large scale operation that the news media chose to ignore because they chose to harp on the negatives. Shame on them. Americans from coast to coast had an awesome operation that no other country on planet earth could even dream of much less execute in a short time span hidden from them by a so-called free press bent on focusing what is wrong about the nation that gives them the very power to be real journalists.

My state is a perfect example of why a centralized approach is not the way to go. If you want to see the daily counts, hmmm sorry the site's down again today. Our tests came from China, and are all being checked at 2 labs statewide, both run by the state while private labs lay people off. About 10% of our lab capacity is being used. The tests are those kind you shove up your nose until you gag and it takes up to 5 days to find out if you are positive. "But it's free" says the health director of my state. Hmmm free torture? I'll pass.

The public, private, military, federal, state and local government process probably saved way more lives than some bearucratic one size fits all centralized approach would have. But it takes eyes willing to see and ears willing to hear to understand that.

 

[coffeecup66]

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Nope. My point is that defecit hawks might ought to have had their hackles up far earlier in the game during the good times when such activity was less beneficial rather than now when it can greatly reduce the duration of a downturn at less overall cost to the economy. Also fixating on a potential last straw ignores prior contributory negligence that is just as complicit - much of it moreso.

Still sounds like complaining about the past, and putting down someone else's complaint that they have.