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By the way, M-S: what was your experience with the step-down from turbo, when using the 4/7s battery?
Foursevens Mini Mark II
- Thread starter lampeDépêche
- Start date
By the way, M-S: what was your experience with the step-down from turbo, when using the 4/7s battery?
I got mine in and did some output and current tests.
For the record, my lightbox is calibrated to what I believe to be US ANSI and ties up closely with my HDS 325 (@0.02 and 325) and ti-force's review of a couple Quarks (btw, ti-force is the only CPF reviewer that claims very accurate lumens using laboratory tested calibration lights). This scale is lower than that used by Selfbuilt, and most Chinese domicile companies - for example, the best I can get off my 1st gen ZL SC52 is ~230/440 lms from an Eneloop/14500 (all the other modes are similarly off as well).
My measurements on a fully charged OEM cell are as follows, runtime calculated assuming 550mah batt spec is correct:
- Max 1000-1050 lms, 3A current draw, 11 mins calc assuming continuous
- Medium 280 lms, 0.514A, 66 mins
- Low 17 lms, 35ma, 16 hours
- Moonlight 0.25 lms, 4ma, 138 hours
My sample holds max (very flat) for 30 seconds, and then ramps down over the next 10 sec. to ~325 lms and then regulates flat again - I don't know where the 15sec comes in, except to say it could be 47s "under promise/over deliver" thing, and also perhaps to technically qualify for the 30sec ANSI FL1 rule. The light seems to hold a flat 1k+ over 4V, and I'm even getting a flat 800+ at 3.6something V. The head gets warm, but nothing uncomfortable against your upper lip.
For those that aren't familiar with 47s take on memory mode, it is unique in that if you turn on to a memory mode, then the next mode in the sequence will always revert to the first mode the series (i.e., low in stock #6 config). But if you start cycling, and don't turn off, then it will continuously loop cycle as most other lights. When cycling this light, the off period seems to need to be very short... I seem to be skipping medium often if I'm not fast enough.
I'm impressed, and happy to see that 47 is still sticking to honest lumens. Maybe some else would like to do a low mode runtime test to see if the 550 mah capacity is right. That's all for now, hope it helps.
For the record, my lightbox is calibrated to what I believe to be US ANSI and ties up closely with my HDS 325 (@0.02 and 325) and ti-force's review of a couple Quarks (btw, ti-force is the only CPF reviewer that claims very accurate lumens using laboratory tested calibration lights). This scale is lower than that used by Selfbuilt, and most Chinese domicile companies - for example, the best I can get off my 1st gen ZL SC52 is ~230/440 lms from an Eneloop/14500 (all the other modes are similarly off as well).
My measurements on a fully charged OEM cell are as follows, runtime calculated assuming 550mah batt spec is correct:
- Max 1000-1050 lms, 3A current draw, 11 mins calc assuming continuous
- Medium 280 lms, 0.514A, 66 mins
- Low 17 lms, 35ma, 16 hours
- Moonlight 0.25 lms, 4ma, 138 hours
My sample holds max (very flat) for 30 seconds, and then ramps down over the next 10 sec. to ~325 lms and then regulates flat again - I don't know where the 15sec comes in, except to say it could be 47s "under promise/over deliver" thing, and also perhaps to technically qualify for the 30sec ANSI FL1 rule. The light seems to hold a flat 1k+ over 4V, and I'm even getting a flat 800+ at 3.6something V. The head gets warm, but nothing uncomfortable against your upper lip.
For those that aren't familiar with 47s take on memory mode, it is unique in that if you turn on to a memory mode, then the next mode in the sequence will always revert to the first mode the series (i.e., low in stock #6 config). But if you start cycling, and don't turn off, then it will continuously loop cycle as most other lights. When cycling this light, the off period seems to need to be very short... I seem to be skipping medium often if I'm not fast enough.
I'm impressed, and happy to see that 47 is still sticking to honest lumens. Maybe some else would like to do a low mode runtime test to see if the 550 mah capacity is right. That's all for now, hope it helps.
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That's a huge help, reppans! Solid numbers that confirm my impressions.
I hope that they *did* write the code for a 30-second ramp-down, since that way it is both ANSI-compliant and also more directly comparable to other lights.
Interesting that the ramp-down takes ten seconds--that probably explains why I had some general sense that it was dimmer at 60 seconds, but could not be sure. The eye is a surprisingly bad lumen-meter!
holygeez03
Enlightened
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Seems like FourSevens is definitely taking full advantage of the ANSI 30-second measurement standard... is it literally a timed step-down, or temperature based?
In my opinion, this is a 325 lumen light with a 1,000 lumen burst mode.
No mode between 17lms (16 hrs) and 280lms (1 hour)? Or is there a way to re-configure the mode spacing?
In my opinion, this is a 325 lumen light with a 1,000 lumen burst mode.
No mode between 17lms (16 hrs) and 280lms (1 hour)? Or is there a way to re-configure the mode spacing?
matrixshaman
Flashlight Enthusiast
You are totally right - that describes it much better. I've been away from CPF too long - LOL.
matrixshaman
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have actually never run it more than about 10 seconds on turbo. I'll have to try that with the Lumen meter to see if there is a noticeable drop. Probably tomorrow. edit: Cancel that - see reppans post - thanks reppans.
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matrixshaman
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks for the excellent data! That will save me digging out my light meter as I said above - I'm sure your numbers are a lot more exact and meaningful here. That's great to know you got those results with a real and accurate light sphere. This light rocks! :twothumbs
Regarding the off period you mentioned I also noticed it's very brief. I had a hard time initially getting it into configuration mode which requires the 10 on-off cycles. I found the easiest way to do that was to twist it to the point where the light just turns on and then back it off just enough so it goes off. Then squeeze the front half to the back half which I found can be done quickly squeezing and releasing to get the 10 cycles.
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Yeah, I'm thinking it's a winner.
But I agree with the criticism about the mode-spacing. The medium really should be in the 100 lumen range, given that the high settles down to 325 after 30 seconds.
(And I don't object to calling this a 325 High with a 1000 lumen Burst-Mode, as holygeez03 suggests. Pretty much everyone's top output level these days is a burst-mode, and if it's not a timed step-down after that then it's a temperature-regulated step-down. I don't see that as false advertising or bad design. Just the opposite: if you design a light so that its max output is limited to what it can sustain for hours on end, then you'll be leaving a lot of useful capability on the table, not taken advantage of. Why not give me the option of that sustainable hours-on-end level as one of the middle levels, and also give me access to the far higher burst-modes?)
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I received mine today. The magnetic charger works quickly. The light is indeed super bright for it's size. It took these feeble fingers a bit to get the timing right to reliably change modes. It takes a very quick off-on. The step down is a gradule dimming. Very hard to notice when it starts. The pocket clip lets you carry it bezel up or down and does not touch the head of the light. The threads work very smoothly. With the cool-guy charger and battery and two clips I think this light is a bargain as well.
Thank you so much for the figures -
I'll link your post in -
The closest flashlight I have to compare - 4Sevens QP2L-X with its 780 lumens burst mode
I emailed Foursevens about the step down and they said:
'Yes the light is constant and for 15 seconds it hits 1020 lumens. Then it will gradually ramp down to 50% of that.
The light actually goes down to 550 but the light has thermal protection so if the light gets to hot it will drop down to 300.
TJ'
Although it says step down to 300 after 15 seconds on the website, apparently it steps down to 550, then another drop to 300 after the thermal regulation kicks in.
'Yes the light is constant and for 15 seconds it hits 1020 lumens. Then it will gradually ramp down to 50% of that.
The light actually goes down to 550 but the light has thermal protection so if the light gets to hot it will drop down to 300.
TJ'
Although it says step down to 300 after 15 seconds on the website, apparently it steps down to 550, then another drop to 300 after the thermal regulation kicks in.
Assuming my Mark II starts to step-down at 15 seconds, it takes another ten seconds before I'm able to notice the reduction in output. I've no regrets concerning the purchase of this light. The Mini Mark II is truly an amazing light. :twothumbs
~ Chance
~ Chance
Heh, your post confused me to a degree. I though you meant an Olight S1R style external charger at first, and was about to comment that this light doesn't have internal charging. I should have read your entire post.
andrewnewman
Enlightened
I'm curious for folks who have received their lights with battery if you could answer a question. On the FourSevens site David keeps reinforcing that you need a 10C battery and makes reference to the fact that Foursevens "special" battery has some sort of protection. This confuses me. I presumed that the battery is just the rebranded Olight IMR which is rated at 5C or 2.75A. The battery is unprotected. Further, the maximum draw for this light (based upon a review) is 3A. So is the FourSevens battery some truly special battery with 10C discharge *and* protection? Further, does anyone believe you really need 10C (~5.5A for a 550mA battery) to get full brightness?
The battery that came with is a RCR123A
3.7V 550 mAh 5C for high-drain devices, built in protection
Tbh I cannot tell a difference between it and an AW IMR but I also dont have an accurate measuring device besides my eyes.
I was thinking it would have came with an IMR since it said special battery on the web site, but i guess any good old RCR is enought to pump out the 1020
andrewnewman
Enlightened
Thanks. So the battery sure *looks* the same as a 550maH 5C Olight IMR battery. How sure are you that this battery has a protection circuit? Can you feel it in the negative end of the battery or note the characteristic strap down the side of the battery? I'm just curious. Does is say "built in protection" on the battery itself? Thanks so much for this information.
A picture is worth a thousand words. I can't feel anything on the negative end or the side of the battery. :shakehead
~ CG
~ CG
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andrewnewman
Enlightened
Thanks! It looks like there is a metal cap on the positive end that probably contains the circuit. This is more common these days (Fenix cells etc...).
You're welcome.
Moonlight mode.
Moonlight mode.
Battery comments FWIW...
Got a chance to do a runtime test on low - mine ran for almost exactly 17hrs, and the output was a flat 16-17lms (good regulation). That's ~280 lm-hrs from a 2 W-h battery. I usually test 1xEneloop lights and the best I've seen is ~280 lm-hrs from a 2.4 W-h Eneloop (Quark XPG2 and SC52 ~20 lms) - I suppose the difference being boost drivers are less efficient than buck.
I metered the battery toward the end of the run and got:
3.58V @ 12:30
3.53V @ 14:00
3.48V @ 15:00
3.40V @ 16:15
Protection tripped at 17:00
3.04V immediately after reset (note: while the charger seems to charge regardless of polarity, the reset seems to work only one way, so I marked the heads +/-)
Using a Drok USB multimeter (these things are great for $15), the charger drew 565mah @ ~5.15V and 2/3A from the wallwart while under CC (full charge from empty). In practice, the wallwart mah output is a reasonably good indicator of the mah that makes it into the battery, with the 20-25% voltage difference representing the conversion losses. Cell always comes off at 4.22V, and it took ~1:15hrs to fully charge.
Also ran max output @ 3.55V for 1min (performed normally), which brought V down to 3.50. Tried it again, and the circuit tripped in ~5 secs. Reset and tried again on Medium, and I think it tripped in a minute or two. So the edge of the battery cliff is ~3.50V (and matches the graph below) for med/max outputs.
I agree with Andrew that this cell probably the same as Olight's protected 5C IMR given it has the same PCB? seam near the head, same written specs, and David's Olight affiliation. Knowing David/47s, as a true US owned/operated company in the litigious US, my GUESS is that the battery is based on AWs new 15C IMR that HKJ has tested HERE - this cell would meet the 10C requirement Andrew mentions above, but is probably under spec'd for lawyer labeling/conservatism. David/47s has to make sure their products are as idiot proof as possible using proprietary batteries (eg, Regen), protection circuits (47s won't sell unprotected IMRs), and under spec'd (5C labeling), because some Joe Six Pack American will find a way to burn his house down and bring lawsuit. Think I'll pick up a couple of those Olight 5Cs for my burst mode Quarks on 1CR123 tubes.
Whatever cell is in there, it's an IMR based on the voltage characteristics. I usually use protected ICRs and like to recharge in the 60-80% (~3.8-3.7V) depleted range since frequent top-up charging wears li-ions out faster. The equivalent 60-80% depleted range for an IMR will be in the 3.65-3.55V range. The Drok mah indicator matches up closely - charged from 3.8V only ~200mah went in, from 3.65V ~300mah went in. A screen shot from HKJs comparator comparing the discharge curves for the IMR 15C to an ICR. The 0.1A curve is a close approximation of resting voltage (all my numbers are resting V).
Got a chance to do a runtime test on low - mine ran for almost exactly 17hrs, and the output was a flat 16-17lms (good regulation). That's ~280 lm-hrs from a 2 W-h battery. I usually test 1xEneloop lights and the best I've seen is ~280 lm-hrs from a 2.4 W-h Eneloop (Quark XPG2 and SC52 ~20 lms) - I suppose the difference being boost drivers are less efficient than buck.
I metered the battery toward the end of the run and got:
3.58V @ 12:30
3.53V @ 14:00
3.48V @ 15:00
3.40V @ 16:15
Protection tripped at 17:00
3.04V immediately after reset (note: while the charger seems to charge regardless of polarity, the reset seems to work only one way, so I marked the heads +/-)
Using a Drok USB multimeter (these things are great for $15), the charger drew 565mah @ ~5.15V and 2/3A from the wallwart while under CC (full charge from empty). In practice, the wallwart mah output is a reasonably good indicator of the mah that makes it into the battery, with the 20-25% voltage difference representing the conversion losses. Cell always comes off at 4.22V, and it took ~1:15hrs to fully charge.
Also ran max output @ 3.55V for 1min (performed normally), which brought V down to 3.50. Tried it again, and the circuit tripped in ~5 secs. Reset and tried again on Medium, and I think it tripped in a minute or two. So the edge of the battery cliff is ~3.50V (and matches the graph below) for med/max outputs.
I agree with Andrew that this cell probably the same as Olight's protected 5C IMR given it has the same PCB? seam near the head, same written specs, and David's Olight affiliation. Knowing David/47s, as a true US owned/operated company in the litigious US, my GUESS is that the battery is based on AWs new 15C IMR that HKJ has tested HERE - this cell would meet the 10C requirement Andrew mentions above, but is probably under spec'd for lawyer labeling/conservatism. David/47s has to make sure their products are as idiot proof as possible using proprietary batteries (eg, Regen), protection circuits (47s won't sell unprotected IMRs), and under spec'd (5C labeling), because some Joe Six Pack American will find a way to burn his house down and bring lawsuit. Think I'll pick up a couple of those Olight 5Cs for my burst mode Quarks on 1CR123 tubes.
Whatever cell is in there, it's an IMR based on the voltage characteristics. I usually use protected ICRs and like to recharge in the 60-80% (~3.8-3.7V) depleted range since frequent top-up charging wears li-ions out faster. The equivalent 60-80% depleted range for an IMR will be in the 3.65-3.55V range. The Drok mah indicator matches up closely - charged from 3.8V only ~200mah went in, from 3.65V ~300mah went in. A screen shot from HKJs comparator comparing the discharge curves for the IMR 15C to an ICR. The 0.1A curve is a close approximation of resting voltage (all my numbers are resting V).
