Does anyone know... if you swap emitters on the HDS 325 XPL with, say, a Nichia 219c, would it still put out 325l?
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HDS Systems EDC # 19
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Hogokansatsukan
Flashlight Enthusiast
No, it would not.
the0dore3524
Flashlight Enthusiast
Probably more or less lumens, but not 325. It’s the same voltage, right? So it’d depend on the LED being swapped out.
Edit: looks like Hogo beat me by a minute. Great “unboxing” btw ;)
Edit: looks like Hogo beat me by a minute. Great “unboxing” btw ;)
I think you’ve got it, but it would be amperage, correct? If the light was calibrated to put out, say, 0.95A on high, it would still send that current through the new emitter. Whatever actual lumen output was achieved would depend on the emitter used, model, type and individually... I think.
FroggyTaco
Flashlight Enthusiast
But a Nichia has a different "forward voltage" than a cree led so the amount of lumens at a given amperage will be different. Plus you'd have to account for the efficiency difference as well.
But just to clear (ish...) a 325 after an emitter swap would put out more than a 200 given the same emitter?
F89
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If you're asking whether an HDS 325 modded to a 219C will put out more than a 200 lumen model? I'd say it's very likely that'll easily clear that. My guess is you'd more or less end up in the 200 vicinity.
I've tried three different high CRI Nichia LEDs in what was once a 200 XPG and they have all turned out brighter than my 200 CRI and high noon (both 200 models). As it seems the LEDs I've tried were likely more efficient than the original XPG.
To expand on this the guys who posted above pretty much summed it up.
A 325 XPL is calibrated so that particular LED hits 325 on high and the replacement LED will perform at that set amperage based on it's specifications paying attention to it's efficiency in terms of Vf and flux bin.
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Lithium466
Flashlight Enthusiast
The HDS are power calibrated, so if you replace say a XP-L with a forward voltage of 3V which was calibrated as a 325, there are big chances that if you replace it with a XP-L with a (say) 2,9V forward voltage, you'll get more lumens (since the Amp will go up to stay within the "power envelope" initially calibrated). Newer leds seem to have lower and lower forward voltage, hence the (generally) autonomy increase of the HDS (since the rotary was introduced, slight slight increase I noticed in newer models), and also more lumens if you swap the led yourself without having the light calibrated again.
So if you want more lumens while swapping led, you need to find a low Vf led, which will put more lumens at a certain amp. Datasheets can help, but often it's the lottery. That is to say, I've alwayd been lucky when swapping leds in my HDS haha!
So if you want more lumens while swapping led, you need to find a low Vf led, which will put more lumens at a certain amp. Datasheets can help, but often it's the lottery. That is to say, I've alwayd been lucky when swapping leds in my HDS haha!
If I were to put a LiFePO4 cell in my HDS Clicky, would the lower voltage cause the Clicky to recognize it as a primary cell rather than a rechargeable cell?
And if it did, would that be a bad thing?
--flatline
And if it did, would that be a bad thing?
--flatline
Lithium466
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you put it charged (3,6V), it would be recognized as a depleted RCR.
Maybe you could try to do a soft reset, put a CR123A, let it « initialize », then replace with the Li-Fe. But be careful, you won’t have overdischarge protection. Unless the electronic is smart enough to notice you changed and thinks its a depleted RCR again? Worth the try.
Maybe you could try to do a soft reset, put a CR123A, let it « initialize », then replace with the Li-Fe. But be careful, you won’t have overdischarge protection. Unless the electronic is smart enough to notice you changed and thinks its a depleted RCR again? Worth the try.
Why would you want to ?
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
I expected you to stop shooting after it fell out of the packaging but nope, you kept on shooting at the light! Okay, I'm watching it again... :popcorn:
Well, I'm considering my options. Trying to educate myself a bit.
As I understand it, the LFP gives up roughly half the capacity, but doesn't require the careful handling that more conventional Li-ion cells do. It won't destroy itself if left sitting fully discharged. It won't degrade faster if left sitting fully charged. It won't degrade as much with each charging cycle.
So basically by giving up half the capacity, you're getting increased safety, ease of use, and peace of mind.
On paper, that seems like a decent trade to me so I'm confused that LFP cells aren't more popular. I assume that there's some other downside of which I am unaware.
Is there some reason that I should not use a LFP cell in my HDS Clicky?
--flatline
Hmm...That's kind of what I was afraid would happen. So if I wanted to use a LFP cell in my HDS, I couldn't put it in hot off the charger. Instead I'd have to run it a bit in another light so that the voltage would be at 3.2 instead of 3.6.
That's inconvenient.
Thanks for the reply!
--flatline
Hogokansatsukan
Flashlight Enthusiast
keep shooting till it stops moving.. then give two more to be sure it doesn’t get back up. Still didn’t kill it.
FroggyTaco
Flashlight Enthusiast
The overwhelming majority of safety issues that a Li-on cell can cause a "vent with flame" event occur from more than one cell used in series, over discharging the cell beyond it's rated capacity(discharge rate), & using really poorly constructed & quality controlled cells.
So as long as you buy quality cells you basically can't have the other two scenarios in an HDS light. Single cell design & very low overall amperage draw, especially using a 18680 tail. The concern/fear is massively overblown in a HDS use scenario. Just make sure you are using quality cells from a reputable vendor. because there's some fakes that you would believe are quality but just have bootleg wrappers on junk cells.
I personally use quality Panasonic cells that are unprotected & have zero issues with my lights which include HDS & other brands. I tried a few crappy xxfire cells early in my flashlight journey & never again. It's not worth the few dollars saved.
Quality chargers matter too!
F89
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As Lithum466 stated you'd probably be ok with using the lfp batteries as long as your light was using CR123 primaries prior. The light would likely operate as configured for a CR123 but if you did a soft reset or use LiIon prior it would likely consider the lfp a flat LiIon and blink at you.
The K2 lfp 123 are a good battery as you know and don't give up much if any capacity actually giving a little more than the protected AW LiIon. I think they come in about 550mAh actual capacity.
I like the K2s but don't use them in my HDS.
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Hogokansatsukan
Flashlight Enthusiast
Do not put a LiFePO4 in your HDS. It is listed in the FAQ page on the HDS website under batteries. The light will not recognize the cell, and yes, bad things will happen.
I'm sitting next to Henry right now and asked him directly, his answer was: "NO! Don't do it! It might try to over discharge your battery and lead to catastrophic failure."
Per the FAQ page: Do not use the new IFR - Lithium Iron Phosphate (Li-FePO4) batteries with our products. Although this is a very safe battery chemistry, it cannot be reliably distinguished from a primary lithium battery and handled appropriately - leading to unreliable behavior.
That's right. Don't be stingy with your bullets!
F89
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K2 lfp123 batteries are ideally discharged to 2.5V but can be taken down to 2V without any dramas. Slightly undercharging and not discharging so low will prolong battery life but I wouldn't be concerned about using a lfp in an HDS given it would likely behave as set to CR123.
That said, I choose Liion and CR123 primaries.
I tried the lfp battery this evening just for the heck of it.
I had the light set for Liion and put the lfp in, as expected got a flash on high showing a depleted battery.
Set it up for CR123 primary then the lfp functioned happily. I ran it on high and held the button down every now and then to boost it back to high again after the 40 second turbo timer kicked in. I was watching tv and not really paying attention but it ran for quite a while before it started blinking so I played with it a little longer then checked the battery which was about 2.4V.
I probably should have used one of my lights with the current firmware as I believe there have been improvements made to the low battery handling but nonetheless it worked acceptably.
The light I used has the firmware with the 3 click lockout, aesthetically though you can't tell it apart from the current manufacture. It's an orange cerakote that I modded with an sw45k R9080 219B which is the one I'm using most because of it's awesome LED.
With the better low battery handling of the current firmware it would probably have worked even better.
All the same I'll stick to Liion and primary CR123 and would recommend, inline with the manufacturer, to stick with those batteries.
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