This forum dead or dying?

[jacobd]

I know people like to play the "political sports team game," Nixon normalizing relations with China was the first step, and Reagan really started outsourcing as a way to break unions.

Certainly, political affiliation never let any future administrations stop or slow that, though. NAFTA was a way to move low skill manufacturing to China, and then higher skill into Canada, where companies could save benefits cost on healthcare.

Don't even get me started on tax breaks to ship Capital overseas.

That explains the industrial sourcing change, but another huge component is the division of wealth creating a bigger divide between the upper and lower income classes.

You point between $20 and $1000 pants is the perfect way to put it. The generations born between 50s to the 70s made very large strides in realestate subdivions, property investments and wealth hoarding. The division only grows, when some kids are born to parents with 8 properties, and some are born to parents stuck on the rental roundabout.

 

[Schokokeks]

That explains the industrial sourcing change, but another huge component is the division of wealth creating a bigger divide between the upper and lower income classes.

You point between $20 and $1000 pants is the perfect way to put it. The generations born between 50s to the 70s made very large strides in realestate subdivions, property investments and wealth hoarding. The division only grows, when some kids are born to parents with 8 properties, and some are born to parents stuck on the rental roundabout.

Absolutely. Real estate transitioned from being shelter to being an investment vehicle and a way to launder money (especially for Chinese and Russian oligarchs). Pensions were eliminated, and 401(k)s introduced, so now Wall Street has made bag holders out of every American, and they transfer their risks into their portfolios.

The government distorts markets to generate income for their friends - who then finance the campaigns...and then they gerrymander their own districts.

And yup, wealth inequality is insane. It's worse than during the days of the robber barons. Then, Occupy Wall Street was infiltrated and dismantled by injecting it full of identity politics, Bernie was sabotaged by the DNC, and then everyone was shocked that Trump was elected.

And then, both teams push wedge issues to their favored outrage outlets, who keep partisan bickering going, so no one notices we're living in a uniparty dystopia.

 

[jacobd]

both teams push wedge issues to their favored outrage outlets, who keep partisan bickering going, so no one notices we're living in a uniparty dystopia.

One of the best sentences on this whole website. This is the single most misunderstood part of the modern western civilization.

 

[orbital]

+

How about some titanium TnC P60 hosts for our viewing pleasure
..unfortunately, not mine

I do have a 26650 Aluminum one

 

[dc38]

I know people like to play the "political sports team game," Nixon normalizing relations with China was the first step, and Reagan really started outsourcing as a way to break unions.

Certainly, political affiliation never let any future administrations stop or slow that, though. NAFTA was a way to move low skill manufacturing to China, and then higher skill into Canada, where companies could save benefits cost on healthcare.

Don't even get me started on tax breaks to ship Capital overseas.

Spittin Facts.

 

[Neon Sunset]

 

[Jean-Luc Descarte]

Unless it's massively automated, it won't happen. Fact is the US consumes more than it can physically produce with current manufacturing methods. China has over 4 times our population, a generally much higher education level, and a stronger work ethic. It's not just that they make goods for much less. They also have a huge variety. I can buy things which were never made in the US, even at the height of our manufacturing boom.

Made in the US now would mean $1,000 air conditioners, $5,000 OLED TVs, $4,000 e-bikes, and proportionally higher everything else. Fact is there would be a very limited market for such goods at these prices. Like it or not we're wedded to China for much of the stuff we need.

And massive automation requires equally massive power production, which requires equally massive support infrastructure, which in turn requires an industrial and professional base to maintain it. Uncle Sam owns none of those things in situ.

The West really believed in the "post-history" delusion that they'd all make a living pushing numbers around on spreadsheets while Africa and Latin America toiled thanklessly harvesting the materials and Asians toiled thanklessly manufacturing all the goods, and both would be content with table scraps. Now the population, as usual, pays the price of the dream bubble popping.

 

[Jean-Luc Descarte]

+

How about some titanium TnC P60 hosts for our viewing pleasure
..unfortunately, not mine

I do have a 26650 Aluminum one

View attachment 82458

I can't get over how good the P60 form factor looks. It's like the perfect proportions for a torch.

 

[Monocrom]

I just got back and hope this place is hanging around as it is my only source for catching up on the crazy amount of choices in the light world today. I will retire for good in two years and plan on bugging the crap out of everyone here on a daily basis once work is not a factor.

I do remember when the led stuff was introduced and man this place was a constant buzz back then. Of course there was something new every day and modding was way more active then as well. I do however think that there is much more to talk about in the light world today as there are literally hundreds of affordable ,and incredible performing lights, to talk about. There are certainly many more options today than there were 25 years ago.

Of course back then we would keep our selves occupied for months on a single new light. I remember something like a year long discussion on a 6 dollar LED light at walmart (Dorcy AAA LED) We had guys tweaking the circuit and doing all kinds of experiments on that little light and man it just kept going. And holy smoke the amount of posts on all the ARC stuff was bananas and it just never slowed down. Much fun back then and we did that on almost every new light. I suppose today there is so much stuff available it just kind of all blends in and maybe the excitement has become a little stale.

I know we have younger members here so please do not take offense however many younger people today use the light on their cell phone to get by and most likely never even consider a cool keychain LED or a AA size EDC. Regardless lights still do it for me and most likely always will. I just bought a light costing about 100 bucks (KR4 QUAD emitter with all the goodies) and I absolutely did not need it however just had to have it. I am sure many here can relate to this as well...ha

Ah yes, the Dorcy AAA LED model. Especially the black-bodied one without the fish-eye optic. Some swore it didn't even exist. I found two on a store peg at K-Mart in Manhattan, back in the day. Bought one. Left the other one on the peg. (Hey, didn't know any better at the time.) So yeah, it's real.

 

[Schokokeks]

+

How about some titanium TnC P60 hosts for our viewing pleasure
..unfortunately, not mine

I do have a 26650 Aluminum one

View attachment 82458

I can't get over how good the P60 form factor looks. It's like the perfect proportions for a torch.

This is my thing...I think we should all get back into the P60 craze.

I got a Sportac drop-in recently with the SFT-25R, so you can get the latest and greatest stuff in this form factor, still.

 

[Robocop]

Monocrom I have 4 total of the Black Dorcy AAA and they were all bought at Target if I remember correct. I also have a bag with at least 10 spare Dorcy circuit boards. The discussions on this little light back then were just fun. The modding stuff was also fun and we had some brilliant minds. Do you remember the Inova x5 and everyone doing the "freeze pop" method in order to swap the LEDs? I still have a custom X5 with swapped higher output 5mm LEDs.

We were easier amused back then it seems however it was good times. I am still just as obsessed with lights today as I was then however find it hard to find people like me. Yes the forum today is still very nice and still full of information however seems to have a little less of the adventure and curiosity of the early days of the LED craze.

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

This is my thing...I think we should all get back into the P60 craze.

I got a Sportac drop-in recently with the SFT-25R, so you can get the latest and greatest stuff in this form factor, still.

The P60 Era. It was the best of times.

 

[Monocrom]

Monocrom I have 4 total of the Black Dorcy AAA and they were all bought at Target if I remember correct. I also have a bag with at least 10 spare Dorcy circuit boards. The discussions on this little light back then were just fun. The modding stuff was also fun and we had some brilliant minds. Do you remember the Inova x5 and everyone doing the "freeze pop" method in order to swap the LEDs? I still have a custom X5 with swapped higher output 5mm LEDs.

We were easier amused back then it seems however it was good times. I am still just as obsessed with lights today as I was then however find it hard to find people like me. Yes the forum today is still very nice and still full of information however seems to have a little less of the adventure and curiosity of the early days of the LED craze.

Unfortunately, I'm forced to agree with you regarding that 2nd paragraph. And yes, absolutely remember the good Old Days. Still remember someone calling me a liar back then when I mentioned finding two Black Dorcy AAA models. Unfortunately, I look around (not just CPF but the Real World as well) and it's clear we are living in a Dystopian future, right now.

 

[Bob A]

It's possible that the flashlight market has reached its zenith; at this point, it's hard to imaging increased utility, brightness, portability . . . what can a flashlight provide that you need, that doesn't already exist?

This leads directly to the Mad Mod Syndrome, when manufacturers hungry for sales begin inserting ever more of the dreaded Features, gradually rendering a useful tool into a pain in the arse. A dozen different modes, power levels, indicators, yada yada. No one remembers how to just get the right number of photons out of the tube, without a 4 page operating manual.

I stick with my Surefires, because they work, they're tough, and they're simple appliances. Two power levels, check. Simple on-off, check. Lockout for travel or not frying your leg, check. Tailcap wears out, new one mailed for free, check.

They do come out with "improvements' of course; that's what the marketing gurus insist upon. I bought a used original Titan, simplicity itself in a small AAA package. New improved models are nice, I suppose, but when you have a product that's ideal, why stop making it?

I had to upgrade my cellphone, as the OS was so old I was unable to access my email. You wouldn't believe what I had to go through to transfer my information to a new phone. That new phone has literally hundreds of features, 99% of which I neither need nor want, all of which interfere with the functions I want, and which unnecessarily complicate its use. I hate it. It keeps trying to sell me crap, and points out stuff about which I have zero interest.

At this time, it seems that simple "appliances" are no longer being made, and my expectation to purchase what I need, without having to deal with what I neither need nor want makes me useless as a customer - in fact, I'm seen as an unreasonable burden on the retail scene.

My daughters spent over an hour trying to make my new phone capable of answering a phone call without having to go through the unlocking sequence. They failed, even though their phones were similar, and didn't have the problem. When I asked everyone to raise their hands if they hated programmers, we finally found something we could all agree on.

Damn, another ranting Old Guy, shouting at the clouds.

 

[jacobd]

Damn, another ranting Old Guy, shouting at the clouds.

I'm younger than some, at 26, and I still feel like there is too much over-complication. I bought a new fridge and TV a few weeks back, and the salesman laughed when I told him no to the new flagship samsung fridge because I don't want to have to connect my fridge to my wifi and download another app

 

[Bob A]

I'm younger than some, at 26, and I still feel like there is too much over-complication. I bought a new fridge and TV a few weeks back, and the salesman laughed when I told him no to the new flagship samsung fridge because I don't want to have to connect my fridge to my wifi and download another app

Congrats on your reasonability. It's important to realise the difference between what you need and what you're offered.

We had a 30 year old Maytag washer that finally reached the end of its useful life. While exploring the marketplace for a replacement, it became obvious that most of the new offerings were dreck, with no possibility of lasting half as long as the maytag, and likely even less. Apparently the main manufacturer of commercial-quality washing machines today is Speed Queen. Not cheap, but quality is seldom inexpensive.

They offered two models; their "new, improved" model, and the one they'd been building for the last several decades. Apparently they'd thought to retire it, but changed direction when the marketing dept began hearing from disappointed customers. Now they're selling it as their "Classic" model, and that's what people are buying.

Most modern appliances are crapfests. Don't get sucked into the hype. Products built for commercial use have to survive hard use, and be repairable. Tehy cost more, and it's better to go with good stuff than to tolerate a procession of junk through your home every few years. Avoid buying toys when what you need are appliances.

Kinda goes for everything, though sometimes you just have no decent choices.

 

[jtr1962]

We had a 30 year old Maytag washer that finally reached the end of its useful life.

Mine is 52 years old and still going strong. My mother bought it when I was around 10 years old. Nowadays they design washers, dryers, refrigerators, A/Cs, stoves, etc. to have a service life of only 7 to 10 years. The supposed theory behind that, besides planned obsolescence, is that people will upgrade by then, even if it still works, to get new "features. Seriously, why does anyone need WiFi for their fridge? Just design reliable appliances that do their primary function and last for decades.

Oh, and my boiler is 73 years old and still going. They don't make stuff like this any more.

 

[nfetterly]

I want the PRC products banned from importation. It fries me that Americans are sending their money to the PRC instead of buying made in USA products from their countrymen. It seems like such a betrayal. I try to buy as little as possible PRC origin products. I'm hoping Donald will eventually put in place a 100% ban on PRC product importation, but Wall Street is so married to the PRC, it will be quite the endeavor to accomplish.

I work for an American company. Established 150 years ago. We were purchased 25 years ago, still American. In the industry we compete in our two main competitors are European. They have their manufacturing in China. In order for us to compete we must have our manufacturing in China - simple fact.

We have grown in the USA in the last 15 years - we've consolidated and moved our shop from Alabama to Ohio. We own the land beside us in our industrial park and could double in size - expect we cannot hire enough machinists, welders, etc....

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

I work for an American company. Established 150 years ago. We were purchased 25 years ago, still American. In the industry we compete in our two main competitors are European. They have their manufacturing in China. In order for us to compete we must have our manufacturing in China - simple fact.

If your European competition is stiffly tariffed, then you will not need to manufacture in China to compete with them. That is what Donald's tariff policies are all about--rebooting US industry.

We have grown in the USA in the last 15 years - we've consolidated and moved our shop from Alabama to Ohio. We own the land beside us in our industrial park and could double in size - expect we cannot hire enough machinists, welders, etc....

I think that it will take a WWII/Cold War level of effort to re-industrialize the USA. Difficult and painful, but I am confident that we can do it, because we must do it. The problem is, for so many years we have convinced ourselves that our kids need to go to college and get a degree, so that they can get a white collar job in order to be successful and make a pile of money. We have exported so much of our blue collar labor, we will have to provide incentives and improve our vo-tech school capacity in order to meet the need. I imagine some companies will establish their own training centers to train students straight from high school, in order to meet their own manpower needs.

 

[nfetterly]

I think that it will take a WWII/Cold War level of effort to re-industrialize the USA. Difficult and painful, but I am confident that we can do it, because we must do it. The problem is, for so many years we have convinced ourselves that our kids need to go to college and get a degree, so that they can get a white collar job in order to be successful and make a pile of money. We have exported so much of our blue collar labor, we will have to provide incentives and improve our vo-tech school capacity in order to meet the need. I imagine some companies will establish their own training centers to train students straight from high school, in order to meet their own manpower needs.

University isn't for everyone and there are alot of people who would benefit greatly from a trade versus going to University. You can make very good money with a trade. have a rewarding job and not accumulate alot of debt while training. I believe this is what Mike Rowe talks about.

We help get our workers upgraded and/or trained.


Added later - in response to the Upper part from IMA SOL MAN - we compete worldwide. Competing in Asia & Europe we need the factory in China.