American horsepower - .454, .460 or .500?
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Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
I have a Freedom Arms Field Grade .454 revolver, and it's ported. It is actually not that bad to shoot. The smooth single action grip rolls up in your hand.
My S&W .44 magnum Mountain Gun, with its light profile 4" barrel and Pachmayr "Gripper," is much more painful with heavy loads. It's nice to carry, but shooting??? When one turns loose the heavily loaded 300 grain cast "bear load" that used to be sold by Pioneer Ammo in Noxon, MT, it's obvious that something exciting has happened in one's hand!
I am interested in all of the "super mags," my catch-all name for the calibers above .44 magnum. And if post-divorce life ever again allows me signicant disposable income, I'd like a .500 S&W. But what I appreciate about the Freedom Arms .454 is that it's "normal" sized. It's not as bulky as a Super Redhawk, as huge as the X-frame Smith. It's just a "normal" single action, albeit abnormally well made and having only 5 chambers. If I had not lucked into genuine Freedom Arms leather at a show, I know the gun would fit any good standard single action holster.
For carrying, I go with the tried and true 1911 in .45 ACP, a 4" Kimber Pro Carry these days.
The only Desert Eagle I've shot was a .44 magnum. Much like the Wildey I owned, it was not bad to shoot, but had a grip ridiculously oversized for anyone with normal hands.
I like all big bangers (try an 18 lb. .50 BMG singleshot bullpup, then compare with the big Barrett 82 that's a pussycat to shoot - and my heavily handloaded Siamese Mauser .45-70 slammed me harder than either of those). But I'll go with a 1911 for a daily carry PDW, and the beautiful Freedom Arms or the handier S&W Mountain Gun for field use. For now, I'll only dream of that S&W .500 magnum and some sort of chest holster to carry it in...
My S&W .44 magnum Mountain Gun, with its light profile 4" barrel and Pachmayr "Gripper," is much more painful with heavy loads. It's nice to carry, but shooting??? When one turns loose the heavily loaded 300 grain cast "bear load" that used to be sold by Pioneer Ammo in Noxon, MT, it's obvious that something exciting has happened in one's hand!
I am interested in all of the "super mags," my catch-all name for the calibers above .44 magnum. And if post-divorce life ever again allows me signicant disposable income, I'd like a .500 S&W. But what I appreciate about the Freedom Arms .454 is that it's "normal" sized. It's not as bulky as a Super Redhawk, as huge as the X-frame Smith. It's just a "normal" single action, albeit abnormally well made and having only 5 chambers. If I had not lucked into genuine Freedom Arms leather at a show, I know the gun would fit any good standard single action holster.
For carrying, I go with the tried and true 1911 in .45 ACP, a 4" Kimber Pro Carry these days.
The only Desert Eagle I've shot was a .44 magnum. Much like the Wildey I owned, it was not bad to shoot, but had a grip ridiculously oversized for anyone with normal hands.
I like all big bangers (try an 18 lb. .50 BMG singleshot bullpup, then compare with the big Barrett 82 that's a pussycat to shoot - and my heavily handloaded Siamese Mauser .45-70 slammed me harder than either of those). But I'll go with a 1911 for a daily carry PDW, and the beautiful Freedom Arms or the handier S&W Mountain Gun for field use. For now, I'll only dream of that S&W .500 magnum and some sort of chest holster to carry it in...
Kestrel
Flashaholic
That was my experience with the DE .44 Mag as well - that grip was way too large for me, and I'd say that I have average-sized hands at least.
I've handled a number of the large handguns by now and the only ones that really seemed to feel good in my hands were the S&W .44 Mag (629) and the Ruger Super Redhawk. :shrug: I'm a bit skeptical of the folks here who are 'choosing' the S&W .460 over the .454, yes it's 'backward compatible', but although I've had a lot of fun 'plinking' with 360-grain loads in my .454, I have little desire to shoot the .460, especially if there is a chance of not having hearing protection i.e. when these cannons are actually needed.
Question:
How many people here are actually shooting their .460's vs how many are shooting their .454's?
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windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
Which one has worse kick? a .454 or .460 with 200gr bullet and 8 3/8 barrel?
I"m diggin the trajectory options more than anything.
I"m diggin the trajectory options more than anything.
They'll be about the same Windy if the bullet weight and velocity is the same. The .454 won't sail the the 200gr bullet as fast though so the 460 will have more recoil at at max loads. The .454 typically isn't fired with 200gr loads though and btw firing 200gr bullets is fast but inefficient, kind of like a top fuel dragster.
Boy, you ain't kidding!
Here's the DE .50 in my medium sized hand. Note the girth near the bottom of the grip! The DE is the opposite of elegance imo. Still, I guess that I can appreciate it for it's uniqueness. I just tire sometimes over the Hollywood hype about it.
Sorry folks, haven't had time to take these to the range as I'm training for a shotgun event that's coming up. Here's a few pics to hold you over until I can post some shooting vids. Also, sorry about the quality but my Canon is down at the moment. Had to shoot these with my cell phone.
.460 top .500 below.
.460 and .500
left to right, .500 .460 .454 .50
Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
Those are big beautiful revolvers. :twothumbs
There are other factors to "perceived recoil," beyond the simple math of bullet weight and velocity. A note there: Part of recoil is caused by the blast of gas that pushes the bullet -- and makes muzzle brakes work if you have them. The same rifle in .300 Win mag and .300 Weatherby may not start a given bullet all that much faster in the Weatherby version, but the Weatherby round will have much more obnoxious "kick," at least in part from the extra gas it discharges.
The shape of that big revolver, grip design, bore height above shooter's hand, and more will make a difference. The shooter makes a difference, too. I've heard the 1911 .45 ACP compared to the medium frame .357 magnum, but I perceive its recoil as much less. Some people are distracted by the slide on auto pistols, others don't notice it.
But kelmo gave me good idea. My Beloved wears a 42G and still has the .357 she carried on duty when she was in the LEO game. I think I'll let her try my Freedom arms, and enjoy the jiggle... :thumbsup:
There are other factors to "perceived recoil," beyond the simple math of bullet weight and velocity. A note there: Part of recoil is caused by the blast of gas that pushes the bullet -- and makes muzzle brakes work if you have them. The same rifle in .300 Win mag and .300 Weatherby may not start a given bullet all that much faster in the Weatherby version, but the Weatherby round will have much more obnoxious "kick," at least in part from the extra gas it discharges.
The shape of that big revolver, grip design, bore height above shooter's hand, and more will make a difference. The shooter makes a difference, too. I've heard the 1911 .45 ACP compared to the medium frame .357 magnum, but I perceive its recoil as much less. Some people are distracted by the slide on auto pistols, others don't notice it.
But kelmo gave me good idea. My Beloved wears a 42G and still has the .357 she carried on duty when she was in the LEO game. I think I'll let her try my Freedom arms, and enjoy the jiggle... :thumbsup:
windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hence the two foot wide flame X 3 foot long!... the bullet escapes with extra powder left to burn.
The dragster was a good comparison!
Those are some beautiful pistols!.. I appreciate the pic of the DE.... I agree, you need a really big hand to handle that well, otherwise I don't think the kick energy would distribute well in your hand.
I'm amazed blunt nose bullets are as accurate as they are... just doesn't make sense for air foil.
But if the range is close enough, I understand you want the energy to dissipate fast rather than pass through.
It's a matter of cartridge over all length (oal). If you make them pointed they have to be longer if they're to be the same weight. Ballistically they deliver more impact and are as accurate as any round nose bullet, because they've been stabilized. Also, since pistol rounds are traveling relatively slow, the flat noses don't induce a terrible amount of drag either. For example a 230gr round nose launched at 1500fps will slow to 1200fps at 100m. A 230gr flat point launched at 1500fps will slow to 1182fps at 100m. Very little difference.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
To tell the truth I forgot it even existed! I'd been interested in getting one back when they were new but wasn't encouraged by the reviews. Wouldn't be surprised if Patriot could update us on it too.
Marlin lever in .44 mag is a classic! :twothumbs
Kestrel
Flashaholic
A big +2 on that, I have one of the earlier .44's without the cross-bolt safety and just love it, it's the smoothest lever action I have ever handled (besides the comparable one my friend has of course). :twothumbs
Sorry, can't contribute anything the the .480 Ruger. Don't own one and have never even fired one.
I have nothing against it but it hasn't taken on a large following yet. There are so many calibers with so little separating them these days that unless it fills a gap or takes the title at something, kind of like the .40S&W did, sometimes they're slow to catch on.The 480 Ruger is basically a 475 Linebaugh "short". 1.285" case length versus 1.405". They use the same .475" bullets. I have (2) 475's and they both shoot well. One is Freedom Arms and the other is Magnum Research. Even though the Freedom Arms is a better made, tighter pistol, the cheaper Magnum Research actually is more accurate. 475 Linebaugh is an excellent hunting cartridge and I understand that it penetrates better than any of the 50's.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
I forgot about the .475 Linebaugh, even though it was one of the calibers I was considering as a replacement for my .454 Casull.
About the accuracy on those two, isn't it one of the biggest frustrations when a better made piece isn't capable the same accuracy as other companies less expensive products.
I used to have a Sterling .22 that my friend was able to push pop cans all over the place with in the 30' - 50' range. I couldn't but that tiny pistol was consistent enough that he was able to make it hit where he wanted.
About the accuracy on those two, isn't it one of the biggest frustrations when a better made piece isn't capable the same accuracy as other companies less expensive products.
I used to have a Sterling .22 that my friend was able to push pop cans all over the place with in the 30' - 50' range. I couldn't but that tiny pistol was consistent enough that he was able to make it hit where he wanted.
The first gun I ever bought was a .44 Desert Eagle, and I loved shooting every round out of it.:devil: I regret selling it though, but someday it will be in my possession again. I was thinking about converting it to .50. Just buy a .50 barrel and magazine and you're good to go. The extractor will fit the AE round, so no need to swap that. I have big hands so grip was no a big issue, in fact I shot it one handed quite frequently (also engaged/disengaged the safety with my thumb).
The one thing that detracted me from shooting it was the expensive ammo. I understood the DE didn't take reloads too well, so I didn't want to risk breaking a $1000+ handgun. At the time I owned it I was looking for frangible rounds but couldn't find any in .44 Rem.
The one thing that detracted me from shooting it was the expensive ammo. I understood the DE didn't take reloads too well, so I didn't want to risk breaking a $1000+ handgun. At the time I owned it I was looking for frangible rounds but couldn't find any in .44 Rem.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
I always enjoyed shooting the Desert Eagle and had no problem with it one handed, but it was always like I had my hand wrapped up to the front strap, and not holding it, which just doesn't feel as secure as having it completely enclosed in your hand.
The friend who had the Desert Eagle always did his own reloads, whether they were going through his Dan Wesson or his Desert Eagle and I don't ever recall any problems being had. Just talking about it makes me want to go shoot one again!
They are "loads" of fun.:naughty:
Hopefully you'll own one again some time Dudemar.
Magsafe and Glaser have both made pre-fragmented .44 loads for a couple of decades now. I've fired them out of a model 29 at bottles of water and even carried them javalina hunting one year.
Magsafe and Glaser have both made pre-fragmented .44 loads for a couple of decades now. I've fired them out of a model 29 at bottles of water and even carried them javalina hunting one year.
I should've been more specific, I was referring to the more recent development of the non-leaded "green" bullet. I got sick of handling lead, and when I used 9mm American Ammunition frangibles in my Glock cleaning it was a cinch.
This site is a great read, the 12th paragraph down describes the development:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm
This site is a great read, the 12th paragraph down describes the development:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm
