What would be the perfect HDS?

[turbodog]

...

no real measurable improvements ...

This is my goal... for hds to offer the same light (which has been pretty much offered for several years now) for less money. Or to offer real, measurable, incremental improvements in the light. Oh, and bring back the screw holes for a pocket clip. That clamp on thing... fugly and inelegant.

 

[flatline]

I like the clip that works with the clicky. Too bad it can't work with the rotary.

--flatline

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

Oh, and bring back the screw holes for a pocket clip. That clamp on thing... fugly and inelegant.

What? Didn't you read that any hole anywhere is bad engineering? Fact! Not sure he knows what a fact is.

We all know my opinion on the fugly universal clip. I look at it and think "could it possibly be any uglier?" The answer is no. No more uglier. I really don't think it is possible to get a clip that ugly... at least, I have never seen one. It doesn't even "grow on you" over time. It just stays... fugly.

Perfect HDS... different for everyone but for me...
1 AA compatible. 18350 compatible. 18500 compatible. All in the same tube.

Anybody else notice that about every 12-18 months we get someone who sounds like the fox in Aesops fables?

Henry did just **** someone off a few weeks back... about the time someone started showing up in HDS threads. Coincidence... maybe. I doubt it. Someone who didn't understand how their eyes actually work... or possibly, how anything works.

 

[Johnnyh]

Well, in defense of the fugly universal clip...it can clip onto a belt and stay there. No other clip that I have can do that. It has its virtues...

 

[turbodog]

For what it's worth. I drilled and tapped all my no-screw-holes hds lights. Still have a stock of reverse bend titanium clips to fit them.

 

[greatscoot]

The folks here at CPF does not like copied designs. I remember the discussion about the Niteye Zip20 and Spy007. But the folks outside of CPF doesnt care about copied stuff. Therefore the best protection is to make it not as easy. Software in Controller is normally well protected, if the protevtion is enabled. The biggest know how is therefore the Software part, not the hardware. At least that is my guess. I never disassembled a HDS completely in all pieces.

There are plenty of people outside of CPF that abhor IP theft in any product or form. It is clearly unethical and shouldn't be tolerated anywhere by anyone.

One thing I've learned, the hard way, is despite how many hard facts that are presented, no matter how many strawman arguments we pick apart and debunk, one is facing an uphill battle when debating a group that is Emotionally Invested within a product. The most stunning part of all of this is that it's a case of "facts don't care about your feelings" of the highest order.

One need not look any further than the cringe worthy response/explanation above put forth at the top of this thread on why the HDS's output is so poor, and the reason's they won't improve. Anyone with any type of knowledge and common sense can look at that explanation and see right through that, and draw their own conclusions.

I know I will be accused of trolling for my comments. The truth? The truth of the matter is, I fully support everyone's right to buy what they want with their money, but I've stood by and watched someone offer the same damn light, year after year after year, with no real measurable improvements other that some mumbo jumbo technical data that in the real world doesn't do a damn thing to make the light any better than the last, and then continue to charge more and more and more, despite other makers advancing and offering far more for your money. I don't like watching my fellow flashaholics, who work hard for their money, get milked over, and over, and over again, and be told that the price is justified, when the reality is there isn't a single redeeming quality that justifies that kind of price, and that many many others are offering a superior product for far less money.

The marketing campaign of HDS is nothing more than a house of cards, while at first glance it seems solid, but when viewed at the right angle, is as thin as playing cards, am I'm here to call out the BS after watching it being spewed for far too many years.

With that said, as I opened with, no real reason to waste anymore time combating the strawman's and falsehoods here, I've said my piece, and accepted that the truth is irreverent with those that are emotionally invested.

Most of the people that own HDS lights appreciate them for what they are and don't expect to see 1000L out of them. I carry an HDS every day and rarely use more then 20-30 lumens for any task that I encounter. If I want 1000L then I would use something else, as I know the limitation of my tools. Just as I wouldn't be use a 8" adjustable wrench to remove lug-nuts from a semi. You're not combating "strawman's falsehoods" here, it's that you expect to a different result from the same action.

 

[RCS1300]

I would like to see HDS develop a series of two accessory heads and reflectors that will allow the light to throw a focused beam two and three times further. Much like the head and reflector that is being developed by another person right now. The first step is to see what demand there is for the accessory head and reflector currently in development. If it works, maybe purchase the rights to that design and then make another that will be much larger in size and throw even further.

 

[peter yetman]

This deadreckoning geezer seems to take pleasure in littering every HDS thread with his nonsense.
Why doesn't he just go and annoy someone else.

Sorry if I'm feeding the troll, but it had to be said. I cannot understand how small his life must be to get kicks from criticising something that gives others a lot pleasure, when he he doesn't even own one.

P

 

[ma tumba]

I wonder why bother with output calibration? Does anyone really care if a light outputs 120 or 150lm? I assume that this protocol adds a bit to the price.

 

[Stoneking]

I cannot understand............ criticizing something that gives others a lot of pleasure, when he doesn't even own one.P

To each their own, everyone is free to share their opinion here, that's what make CPF great!

For those who don't own one, I would suggest giving the rotary a chance, it's quite unique. It really is a great light, designed for a purpose, not designed to appease. If you're looking for 1000+ lumens, then HDS is not designed for what you need, simple as that. They are built to last, I'd bet my HDS lights will outlast me, and a lot of pride has gone into this light. There are few companies that work and think every day on how to improve their product. It's not for everyone, but there are those of us who do enjoy them and rely on them.
For me, there are very few lights I'll take with me where safety and reliability are most important, HDS is without a doubt on top!
They are not perfect but they are pretty amazing lights, in my opinion.

If this makes me a fanboy then where's my Membership ID Card.

 

[badtziscool]

So back on topic....

My perfect HDS is a Ti Rotary with a Nichia 219b r9080, 300Lm, 18350/cr123 compatibility. Why?

I love titanium knurling.
Rotary interface is perfect.
219b r9080 because that's the best led ever.
300Lm bc that's actually the most I would ever need in a realistic situation.
18350 compatibility because of the extra capacity. I'd even take a slightly fatter body to maintain strength.

And just for the record. I've been in this hobby for close to 15 years. I've had everything imaginable. I've only recently discovered HDS the past few months and I completely get their concept and philosophy. Hence why I'm a fan of theirs now. That says something.

 

[wacbzz]

I'm not sure there would ever be a perfect HDS flashlight - not to us as purchasers, nor to HDS as the creator. Let me explain...

I've purchased over the years most of what I call the "general offerings" from HDS; the twisty in two different set-ups, the clicky with multiple different LED options, and the rotary when it originally arrived (my CPF "first" review is still available to be read). I've experienced problems and shortcomings with these lights, yet kept coming back. I've paid $99 for them and I've paid over $300 for them. I've spent a bit of money with HDS precisely because each iteration I purchased was not the perfect HDS for me.

As well, in a most basic sense, the same can be said for HDS as a company. All the many revisions to the lights over the years with programming and the tweaking of designs indicate the perfect HDS light has not yet been created by the maker. An "upgrade" is just that; some unperfect shortcoming needed to be corrected. As good as we think an HDS flashlight is, try to imagine the thought process of a creator that had as many software revisions as these lights have had between 2010 and 2018! What is his perfect light?

With my purchase of the Amber HDS flashlight, I feel like I have come across the almost perfect for now HDS light; the rotary mechanism is like butter - unlike any HDS rotary I've ever owned - and the output, for my eyes, is far better than any white LED that I've ever had in an HDS light. Less throw and a bit more flood would be better for me, but I think this can be "fixed" with one of the floody reflectors that were made a bit ago. I just need to find one...

We here on CPF seem to always be chasing our perfect light, knowing full well the perfect light will never be found. The perfect-for-now light is always within our grasp, but most members here will never be able to stop that chase...

 

[Dicaeopolis]

I don't think there is anything I would change in my HDS single CR123 lights. I have clicky and rotary and use them for different things. I am not sure where there is a better single CR123 light. I guess if someone wanted higher lumens, that would be possible, but there is "no free lunch." If the owner of HDS were to make a light in the 600 -1200 lumen range, I would want it to be in the 18650 form. I am not sure if that would take a whole re design or not, but I wouldn't be interested in a single CR123 light with that kind of lumens. I would definitely buy a higher lumen 18650 light with the same UI.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

I'm not sure there would ever be a perfect HDS flashlight - not to us as purchasers, nor to HDS as the creator. Let me explain...

I've purchased over the years most of what I call the "general offerings" from HDS; the twisty in two different set-ups, the clicky with multiple different LED options, and the rotary when it originally arrived (my CPF "first" review is still available to be read). I've experienced problems and shortcomings with these lights, yet kept coming back. I've paid $99 for them and I've paid over $300 for them. I've spent a bit of money with HDS precisely because each iteration I purchased was not the perfect HDS for me.

As well, in a most basic sense, the same can be said for HDS as a company. All the many revisions to the lights over the years with programming and the tweaking of designs indicate the perfect HDS light has not yet been created by the maker. An "upgrade" is just that; some unperfect shortcoming needed to be corrected. As good as we think an HDS flashlight is, try to imagine the thought process of a creator that had as many software revisions as these lights have had between 2010 and 2018! What is his perfect light?

With my purchase of the Amber HDS flashlight, I feel like I have come across the almost perfect for now HDS light; the rotary mechanism is like butter - unlike any HDS rotary I've ever owned - and the output, for my eyes, is far better than any white LED that I've ever had in an HDS light. Less throw and a bit more flood would be better for me, but I think this can be "fixed" with one of the floody reflectors that were made a bit ago. I just need to find one...

We here on CPF seem to always be chasing our perfect light, knowing full well the perfect light will never be found. The perfect-for-now light is always within our grasp, but most members here will never be able to stop that chase...

Who are you and what have you done with wacbzz? LOL!

You are spot on.

 

[scout24]

That was good...

One of the things that makes me stay is the UI. Within the physical constraints of Henry's vision, I can make an HDS light whatever I want within a couple minutes. Single mode 3 lumen monentary? (Program all 4 banks, muggle proof.) Got it. .05,2,5,10lm? Got it. Full output strobe only? Got it. 200lm single mode hi only, but with a subtle step down (or without) for battery savings? Yup. 1x123 primary? (Spacer) 18650? 16650? 18350?(spacer) Got it. Raised button? Flush? You get my point I'm sure.

 

[lion504]

219b r9080 because that's the best led ever.

From my limited perspective, very much agree with this.

Good posts by @wacbzz and @scout24.

 

[wweiss]

Unless I missed it, I can't find the word "caving" anywhere on the HDS website. Or a mission statement there as to why these purpose-built lights exist in this format. If they were originally designed for caving, then they are perfect for that use - you don't need massive lumens in absolute darkness. I used to explore old coal mines in Hazleton, PA with my Boy Scout issue 15L incan and that was plenty bright in pitch blackness.

Not many folks go caving and a lot more go camping and hiking. I still wish my NB45 rotary had a burst option of 500-700L for those brief times on the trail when there's a bump in the night.

 

[nbp]

Who are you and what have you done with wacbzz? LOL!

You are spot on.

+1! Very good post from Bzz.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

Unless I missed it, I can't find the word "caving" anywhere on the HDS website. Or a mission statement there as to why these purpose-built lights exist in this format.

You won't on the website but will on the HDS Systems, Inc Facebook page.
This is Henry with his original Action Light... in a cave.

Here is an EDC Ultimate in Fort Stanton Snowy River Cave...

Which in fact, was where Henry was this week... inside the cave doing surveying for BLM (the original BLM... Bureau of Land Management not Burn Loot and Murder).

He used to be active with Search and Rescue... cave rescues.

 

[turbodog]

To each their own, everyone is free to share their opinion here, that's what make CPF great!

For those who don't own one, I would suggest giving the rotary a chance, it's quite unique. It really is a great light, designed for a purpose, not designed to appease. If you're looking for 1000+ lumens, then HDS is not designed for what you need, simple as that. They are built to last, I'd bet my HDS lights will outlast me, and a lot of pride has gone into this light. There are few companies that work and think every day on how to improve their product. It's not for everyone, but there are those of us who do enjoy them and rely on them.
For me, there are very few lights I'll take with me where safety and reliability are most important, HDS is without a doubt on top!
They are not perfect but they are pretty amazing lights, in my opinion.

If this makes me a fanboy then where's my Membership ID Card.

I agree that the lights are very good: robustness, low maintenance, good s/w features, etc.

I also know that they are lasting too long. Given emitter lifespan, average usage will see the light lasting decades or more. By then... only a fraction of a fraction of a percent of hds users will still use the light. Eventually you will abandon the light for 5000 lumen lights that run from a single watch battery.

Point is... would be really nice to try and cut costs and shorten design and production cycle, things which usually happen in most items due to competitive pressure.

I've still go an ultimate 42 and basic 60 floating around somewhere. Couldn't care less about them... my old maglites mean more to me. I love my rotary though.