18650 Battery and Charger Recommendation

[ScottJD]

I have a XTAR after returning a Nitecore i4. This was because the i4 required you to charge 2 14500 at the same time or it would charge a single one at 750mAh which is to high for most smaller batteries. It also didn't hold my 26650 well.
With the D2 they solved this and now have a low current charge for smaller batteries with a button selection, I can't speak for the 26650 if they fit better in the D2 or not. But it looks like Nitecore did improve with the D series chargers over the I series.
I do like the time tracking on Nitecore D series, something that my XTAR is missing. But my XTAR will charge at twice the power with 1A for my bigger cells.

For me I already have an Eneloop charger that does individual cells so I didn't mind getting the XTAR VP2, and I also own a couple 3.8V Li-Ion 18650 cells so that was a plus for the XTAR for my use. And will charge my 18650 with 1A in half the time.
The one other odd plus for e XTAR is it can be used as a battery USB bank charger. I didn't know this until I bought it. Put a charged battery in bank one with the charger unplugged or incase of power failure, hold he button and plug you phone unto the USB port and it will charge your phone using that battery.

As doc said, both are good chargers is just a preference of what fits you better.
But if your charging smaller batteries like the 14500 I would stay away from the i4 and i2 and get the D series.


Scott

 

[gopajti]

Which is better between the Nitrcore D2 and the Xtar VP2?


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums

I highly recommend VP2, if need only a good li-ion charger. Overall, I think in this time VP2 is the best 2bay li-ion charger in market.

 

[LightWalker]

I have a XTAR after returning a Nitecore i4. This was because the i4 required you to charge 2 14500 at the same time or it would charge a single one at 750mAh which is to high for most smaller batteries. It also didn't hold my 26650 well.
With the D2 they solved this and now have a low current charge for smaller batteries with a button selection, I can't speak for the 26650 if they fit better in the D2 or not. But it looks like Nitecore did improve with the D series chargers over the I series.
I do like the time tracking on Nitecore D series, something that my XTAR is missing. But my XTAR will charge at twice the power with 1A for my bigger cells.


For me I already have an Eneloop charger that does individual cells so I didn't mind getting the XTAR VP2, and I also own a couple 3.8V Li-Ion 18650 cells so that was a plus for the XTAR for my use. And will charge my 18650 with 1A in half the time.
The one other odd plus for e XTAR is it can be used as a battery USB bank charger. I didn't know this until I bought it. Put a charged battery in bank one with the charger unplugged or incase of power failure, hold he button and plug you phone unto the USB port and it will charge your phone using that battery.

As doc said, both are good chargers is just a preference of what fits you better.
But if your charging smaller batteries like the 14500 I would stay away from the i4 and i2 and get the D series.


Scott

Increasing the charge current from 0.5A to 1.0A will not cut the charge time in half, check HKJ's reviews at
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html

 

[ScottJD]

Increasing the charge current from 0.5A to 1.0A will not cut the charge time in half, check HKJ's reviews at
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html

I have checked his page, I've used it in many occasions with my purchasing decisions.
His page and batteryuniversity.com. Battery university states "The higher the amperage of the charger, the shorter the charge time will be."

And when comparing these chargers I spoke of I see the XTAR charging completing in almost half the time unless I'm misunderstanding these graphs?

On the Nitecore D2 charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 0.5A and terminating charge completed at about 470 minutes.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Nitecore Digicharger D2 UK.html

With the XTAR charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 1A and terminating charge completed at about 210 minutes.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar VP2 UK.html

Yes it's correct that near the last %30 of the charging process with CC/CV the amperage feed into the battery cuts back, especially once the current hits the cut off voltage in most LI-Ion that would be 4.2V (+\- 0.5).
But for the first %70 of the charge of the battery is rated for taking a higher amperage then it will take the full 1A and this is he time savings when charging the battery.


Scott

 

[LightWalker]

I have checked his page, I've used it in many occasions with my purchasing decisions.
His page and batteryuniversity.com. Battery university states "The higher the amperage of the charger, the shorter the charge time will be."

And when comparing these chargers I spoke of I see the XTAR charging completing in almost half the time unless I'm misunderstanding these graphs?

On the Nitecore D2 charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 0.5A and terminating charge completed at about 470 minutes.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Nitecore Digicharger D2 UK.html

With the XTAR charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 1A and terminating charge completed at about 210 minutes.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar VP2 UK.html

Yes it's correct that near the last %30 of the charging process with CC/CV the amperage feed into the battery cuts back, especially once the current hits the cut off voltage in most LI-Ion that would be 4.2V (+\- 0.5).
But for the first %70 of the charge of the battery is rated for taking a higher amperage then it will take the full 1A and this is he time savings when charging the battery.


Scott

It looks pretty close actually, I made my statement based on a statement HJK made in post #2 of this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343010-Charging-a-18650
"Higher charge rate will increase the wear on the battery and doubling the charge current will not halve the charge time.", so I'm not sure now.

 

[ScottJD]

Hello all!

I'm new around here and I guess in general regarding this topic. I have, over the years, had many rechargeable batteries which have always been charged with the charger that came with them (i.e. Energizer, Duracell, etc.). Recently I noticed that some of my Duracell cells are dying quicker than they should. In my research over the past few days I've found that I can use better chargers (analyzers) that can not only help keep my batteries healthy but can also hint at what might be wrong.

After reading tons of articles both here and elsewhere online I have come down to these (in order of initial desirability). I'm wondering if any of the experts here can comment?


By looking at this you might just say why are looking at the NC2500? The obvious clear winner is BC-2000, right? Well, not really. I really like the SkyRC model but I have concerns after looking over everything. If these are big concerns to others then maybe I'd dodge a bullet by not getting it. But if there's no real deal breakers I'd rather have it.

I realize the C9000 is likely a favorite with you guys and maybe it is the best choice. Just not from my eyes at the moment.

Please keep in mind I'm a noob so I don't have any of these already or lots of experience to know what's important and what's not. If you can help that would be great!

Thanks so much!

-Richard

Hi Richard,
I have a 5 year old Skyrc hobby charger and it's been good. I've recently looked into buying a new hobby charger for my bigger 3 cell LiPo packs and researched the ones with the BT and app but I keep reading mixed reviews. I think Skyrc is onto something with the remote monitoring and even gave up on blutooth and is now moving into wifi for more distance coverage. But I also think they have a few things to work out in the firmware with this new generation of chargers so I'm personally going to wait it out. Plus it also scares me that people would walk away from LiPo packs charging unattended. The app may make it easier to set up for what your charging but I'm still seeing issues and bugs being reported with some of the app BT Skyrc hobby chargers.

Midnight recommended the Panasonic charger. I recently picked up a Costco pack with 10 AA and 4 AAA Eneloops for $23 and it came with the same charger he recommended. It does a good job charging and unlike other cheap ones will charge one bank at a time, so you don't have to have 2 batteries charging if you only need to charge one. It runs cool, no fan. May not be the fastest but is good for AA/AAA Ni-Mh batteries if that's all your looking to charge.
I just couldn't pass up the combo pack and price, it was time to replace my 10 year old Royavac IC3 batteries.


Scott

 

[HKJ]

It looks pretty close actually, I made my statement based on a statement HJK made in post #2 of this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343010-Charging-a-18650
"Higher charge rate will increase the wear on the battery and doubling the charge current will not halve the charge time.", so I'm not sure now.

And that is correct, but you can not directly compare chargers with different charge algorithms and termination conditions.

 

[ScottJD]

And that is correct, but you can not directly compare chargers with different charge algorithms and termination conditions.

Agreed, I was talking about my personal comparison of the Nitecore i4 and the XTAR charger. I didn't time the exact charging times but I can safely say it seemed about %40 faster. It was not my intention for a casual comment in my opinion between two chargers to be taken into a technical debate.

For my personal use I run Samsung ICR18650-26D 2600mAh cells and according to the SDI for these cells the optimal charge rate is 1.3A (0.5C), they can be fast charged at 2.6A but it's also noted that this will decrease the capacity by %20 and probably wear more on the battery. But I would think if the battery designed to be charged at 1A then the wear would be minimum and not really noticed over the 500 charge cycles.

It's my understanding that the algorithm for most CC/CV chargers is the first %70 is charged at the full current provided or until the cutoff voltage is reached, in my case 1A current until 4.2V. Then the current is decreased as battery reaches full charge. If this %70 scenario is correct then logic would assume the battery would charge faster for the first %70 of the rated capacity?

Is this not correct? And if not then why are chargers made with the ability to charge at different currents?


Scott

 

[LightWalker]

And that is correct, but you can not directly compare chargers with different charge algorithms and termination conditions.

Ok, I understand now, thank you.

 

[HKJ]

It's my understanding that the algorithm for most CC/CV chargers is the first %70 is charged at the full current provided or until the cutoff voltage is reached, in my case 1A current until 4.2V. Then the current is decreased as battery reaches full charge. If this %70 scenario is correct then logic would assume the battery would charge faster for the first %70 of the rated capacity?

How much of a charge cycle is CC and CV depends on battery age/condition. If you check my current charge test the 2600mAh battery I am using is in CV most of the time.

The change from CC to CV is not always very sharp, some chargers starts tapering the charge current at 3.9 or 4.0 volt. It does not spoil the CC/CV charging, but it makes it slower.

 

[hexrob]

Hi all. I have an ultrfire WF-139 charger that Ive owned for many years and was used for charging 14500 and 16340's. I just ordered my first 18650 light, and was wondering if you guys think this charger is ok, or should I upgrade to something better? The light is a single cell 18650, but is expandable to a double.
Thanks, Hex

 

[ScottJD]

Hi all. I have an ultrfire WF-139 charger that Ive owned for many years and was used for charging 14500 and 16340's. I just ordered my first 18650 light, and was wondering if you guys think this charger is ok, or should I upgrade to something better? The light is a single cell 18650, but is expandable to a double.
Thanks, Hex

Hex, congratulations on your first 18650 light. I have never used the Ultrafire charger you mentioned but after looking at the product descriptions on Amazon I have the following concerns.
Does the light you order come with any 18650 batteries? FYI: Most of the cheaper lights that come with batteries are sending fake unprotected batteries with the lights and I would be careful using these batteries.

One description stated:
"Application: For rechargeable battery 18650(but not for the one with protection board),14500,18500,17670,17500"
** This leads me to think it may not have enough space for 18650 with protection circuits.

Another stated:
"Note: It was reported that the positive nodes of the charger is overly recessed into the top of the unit causing problems charging some 18650 batteries and a workaround for this is to bend a paperclip and use it as a filler between the node and your battery. In the meantime, the Ultrafire 18650 batteries charge fine with this charger as is."
** I would not recommend this and find it hard to believe this was even in the product descriptions.

**My third concern is the amount of knock off and fakes of Ultrafire stuff on the market, yes they are a real company but a lot of dishonest companies have made fakes and used the name Ultrafire on flashlights, batteries, and chargers.
Recently my last 4 TrustFire 14500 cells came with unique serial numbers on each battery because TrustFire has the same problem with fake ones being sold and they might offer a way to check online soon with these new serialized batteries.

I also read that the old version of your charger had a trickle charger in the end, how old is yours? You don't want to trickle charge your cells, this could over charger them. Have a millimeter to check the voltage after charging to make sure they don't over charge.

I would recommend only running protected 18650 batteries. You also mentioned that the light you ordered can accommodate 2 18650 with an extention insert. I would not recommend running multiple 18650 batteries this way, and especially if they are not protected. Unprotected multicell lights like you described with the Extention tube could lead to "thermal runaway". Depend on how you use the light I think you will find one quality protected cell is enough from most people.

A good write up about safety, batteries, chargers was found on this forum:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Using-Li-ion-cells-in-LED-flashlights-safely
It also specifically mentions some things about your charger model you said you currently own and may want to read those comments.

Two other chargers were mentioned in this thread. I think they were NiteCore D2 and the XTAR VP2. XTAR is aware of the problem with people making knock off fakes and provides a scratch off serial number on the charger. You can check it on their main site to tell you if its new, used and authentic. Both are good chargers and I think will allow protected cells without any issues. They are slightly different so I would research both and find the one that fits your needs better.


Scott

 

[ChromeDog]

Inexpensive chargers for 18650's

First post here. I've always searched this place for info on flashlights, though I'm not a legitimate flashlight hotrodder.
Recently someone sent me two very cool flashlights along with a few batteries and both a single charger and a double.
The single charger says "hr-186-4v2", the double says nothing except "charger." Both have wall-socket plugs built in
(they hang off the wall).

Needless to say, I don't trust either of them, though they've worked the few times that I've used them. I'd rather have
something with a cord, that I can isolate from the wall just in case of meltdown. And of course have a more reliable
known brand.

But I only have a few batteries, so I don't need anything extravagant or expensive. I'd rather spend on more batteries.
Anything come to mind? I have seen a lot of Nitecore chargers, but read a couple posts about overcharge.

BTW, the batteries that came with them are "UltraFire BRC-18650 400mAh" Ha! Yeah, I know the deal. They say
"protected" but I'm not sure about that. I ordered a couple OLight 3400mah's as a start. The OLights are slightly
higher diameter but probably over 1/8" longer than the FakeFires. So again, I'm not sure they put any actual
protection in the latter.

BTW, the OLight 3400mah's were only about $24 for the pair. Thick, hard-to-open ink-printed bubble pack cards,
so I doubt that they're fake. Price seems much better than most of what I've seen from NiteCore and others.

 

[janx]

Best 18650's & Charger for a TN36vn?

Hey guys I need some help with 18650 batteries and a decent charger. I have been collecting flashlights for several years, but I have never really messed with rechargeable batteries besides the battery packs in my Microfire. The light I need them for is a Thrunite TN36vn. I am looking for the best quality 18650's I can get and need a charger if you know of a deal or something. I have done some searching on here and am doing more as I type this, but if possible I would like an answer directed towards this exactly so I can be as safe as possible as I know very little about this subject and as bad as I want to play with a new light my daughter is always with me and wants to play too and I don't want to endanger her in any way. Willing to listen to any and all advice as like I said I am not familiar with these at all. Going to look around on here some more now, but thank you very much in advance!!

Josh

 

[gopajti]

chargers: XTAR VP4 or 2pcs VP2

 

[jmcf1949]

Fastech confirmed my last battery order on 1-3-15 and the package arrived in a Detroit, MI suburb two days ago. Not sure what the delay was caused by. Maybe U.S. customs or Homeland Security, who knows. The Fastech tracking link via Honk Kong Post never worked. But they always seem to arrive.

Jim

 

[jedwards]

Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger

I called BatteriesPlus in MI today to see what 18650s they carried. The clerk recommended the BP private brand of 18650 called a Nuon. The clerk recommended this brand over Surefire which he claimed customers were constantly complaining about. I was skeptical of his dubious claim b/c I use Surefire 123s in my Fenix TK15 w/ great results. Also, I believe Selfbuilt did a review of the SF 123 and it scored highly, but I digress. I did some research online for Nuon batteries and found many reviews claiming Nuon is garbage. Looks like I won't be buying from BP in the near future.

I just tried a Nuon from BatteriesPlus and I can confirm this.

Details:

I'm using 4 18650s in series and a b3flex to drive 4 Cree XML-U2s at 3 amps.

Works fine with 4 TrustFire batteries.

One of my TrustFires got screwed up, I tried with 1 Nuon + 3 TrustFires. All were charged to > 4.15V. I worked at settings lower than 3 amps, but at 3 amps the Nuon's protection circuit kicked in and it measured 0V until I put it back into the charger for a moment.
When I tried my lamp again with 4 working TrustFires, no problem.