4sevens Maelstrom G5 or Quark Turbo 123/2?

[ACRbling]

John,

I don't know where you got 270otf from, but it's actually 190otf for the nw xpe q4.

http://www.eagletac-usa.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-4-6880

On another note, don't forget about led drive levels. A higher binned led will always be brighter than a lower binned led, at the same drive level.

Hey Alvin,

I'm confused about the information provided by the manufacturers for two of the 4"-5" lights on my short list with neutral white LEDS.

The EagleTac P20C2 MKII w/ a neutral white Q4-5A and the limited run, 4Sevens Quark 123/2 Tactical w/ XPG-R4 that you have recommended.

The confusion stems from both the info you provided above and the manufacturer's listed specs.

The ET is listing its max lumen level for the Q4-5A at 270 (OTF), whereas with the Quark, the max lumen level is listed at 230lumens (XPG-R5) minus 7% (to compensate for the neutral XPG-R4 LED) for a total of 214(OTF?).

If the XPG-R4 is supposed to have more output than even the older, cool, white LEDS, let alone the older neutral white Q4-5A's and since the lights are of very similar dimensions, how can there be not only an inverse disparity, but such a large one at that?

To add to the confusion, some claim that just because a new LED emerges on the scene, it doesn't necessarily mean it will provide more output than older versions, all other things being equal that is.

If you can help clarify this, it will help me make a decision. Thanks!

-John

 

[jcalvert]

I have an Eagletac T20C2 MkII with the XP-E Q4 neutral white LED module, and there's no way it's putting out 270 lumens.

The XP-G R5 module is supposed to be 300 lumens OTF, so it doesn't make sense that an emitter with a much lower flux bin (Q4 --> Q5 --> R2 --> R3 --> R4 --> R5) would be only 10% dimmer.

Yes, although I'm new to this technology, that makes perfect sense to me, thank you. Isn't the Q4-5A neutral white supposed to be about 30% less lumens than the XPG-R5? This would put the Q4-5A at 210L (300L OTF - 30%). Would 210L OTF make more sense to you for what you experience with your T20 without having pro equipment to test with?

BTW asdalton, I have the T20 as well, but w/ the XPG-R5 and love the balance of flood/throw/spill. But I have been strongly considering adding the Q4-5A drop-in, but as you backhandedly point out, a newer neutral white is at least six months past due at ET and it could be months longer before we see, say an R4 neutral.

Question: bin = the tint of the flux, correct? So a light could be listed as an R4 flux, but unless it's additionally stated to be a neutral tint or the R4 is followed by say a 4C0 or 4D0 bin, then the flux is probably a cool tint LED, correct?

Also, back to the ET T20, I'm not sure I want to mess with switching out the modules when I change environments. Switching to a greater output future LED like the SST-50 is fine though. So for now, I'm planning on a dedicated R4 neutral white in the 4" to 5" large EDC size range. Any smaller than a 4" CR123 and I'd be afraid I'd lose it or have it go through the washer in my pant's pocket.

So in the natural quest for more power by us healthy, human males, I could use more opinions on whether to go with,

1) the ET P20 w/ the Q4 considering I love my T20 (but has an older flux),

2) or the limited run Quark 123/2 Tactical w/ the XPG-R4/4C0 or 4D0 , which "ACRbling" has three of, likes a lot it and highly recommends. BTW, I apparently just missed out on the limited run of the Quark 123/2 Turbo w/ XPG-R4/4C0 or 4D0. Crap, the Turbo was what I wanted but I got involved with CPF too late.

Question:Or should I also consider another brand whose quality and reputation I'm familiar with and whose general styling of their products I also like, and which has a model available in a similar style, for example the Fenix PD30 XPG-R4, which I like at 265L (at the LED or OTF?)? The thing that it doesn't list is a bin. If one of you can find out, please let me know!

Before you guys give your opinions on which larger EDC option you would personally go with based on your needs, desires or reviews (I already know ACRblings recommendation), one last question to confirm my new found understanding of LED tech terms.

Question:If you know the LED's flux, you would then need to know the bin to determine whether it's cool, neutral, or warm, is this correct? And if the bin is not listed, then you sometimes or always (choose please) know that it's a cool version, correct again?

So this is a call out for a lot of explicit technical information and even more importantly, a request for help in getting me to make a final choice of a flashlight with a neutral bin LED!!!

Thanks in advance to all who reply!

John

 

[jcalvert]

John,

I don't know where you got 270otf from, but it's actually 190otf for the nw xpe q4.

http://www.eagletac-usa.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-4-6880

On another note, don't forget about led drive levels. A higher binned led will always be brighter than a lower binned led, at the same drive level.

Alvin,

Would please delve a little deeper into explanation of the last sentence, especially drive level and its relationship with flux and bin?

The OTF lumens info for the T20 was mistakingly assumed based on the listed XPG-R5 OTF lumens and then I subtracted 30% because I was sure I saw or heard that somewhere. So thanks for the corrected info. Other than considering other models from reputable manufacturers like the Fenix PD30 R4 (is it neutral or not?), your recommendation is looking like the leader of the pack!!!!

Note: I just missed the 4Sevens neutral white in the Turbo. I was just a little too late.

Thanks Al for the corrected info

All th best,
John

 

[ACRbling]

John,

Let's see if I can explain bin and tint clearly.

Cree's binning refer to the flux level of their LEDs at 350ma drive current. An xpg r4 is a r4 bin led. Which puts out xxx lumens at 350ma drive current. The xxx lumens at the 350ma is the output/flux of the led. Hope that was understandable.

Tint is identified in a whole other identifying system. It has no direct relation to the bin/flux of LEDs. But as tints get warmer, outputs are lower, because of the phosphors used to hide the naturally occurring blue light. Therefore warmer leds are usually binned lower than their cool white counterparts.

If you take a look at my signature, you'll notice that I also have a pd30 r4. I do like this light a lot. But it uses an xpg r4 cool white led. It's about the same size as the 123/2 quark and if you were to go the cool white route, you might as well get the quark because it uses a xpg r5.

Hope this helps!

 

[Quension]

"Bin" is just the generic term it sounds like, a container for sorting/categorizing.

LEDs have somewhat wide manufacturing tolerances, so they are first created and then binned (sorted) based on how they test afterward. Luminous flux and chromaticity (tint) are both used in the sorting process, each with several bins (the letter-number labels).

If you want all the dry stuff in official form, Cree has docs.

 

[jcalvert]

John,

Let's see if I can explain bin and tint clearly.

Cree's binning refer to the flux level of their LEDs at 350ma drive current. An xpg r4 is a r4 bin led. Which puts out xxx lumens at 350ma drive current. The xxx lumens at the 350ma is the output/flux of the led. Hope that was understandable.

Tint is identified in a whole other identifying system. It has no direct relation to the bin/flux of LEDs. But as tints get warmer, outputs are lower, because of the phosphors used to hide the naturally occurring blue light. Therefore warmer leds are usually binned lower than their cool white counterparts.

If you take a look at my signature, you'll notice that I also have a pd30 r4. I do like this light a lot. But it uses an xpg r4 cool white led. It's about the same size as the 123/2 quark and if you were to go the cool white route, you might as well get the quark because it uses a xpg r5.

Hope this helps!

As usual, all that information helps and the more I see and read about it, the more comfortable it becomes and is ultimately retained. So thanks again!

BTW, whether or not I get another EaglTac light or a Fenix PD30, I'm planning on buying the limited run Quark 123/2 w/the XPG-R4 within the next two days! Before all is over for the buying, I will probably have all three brands of similar style. I can always give my least favorites to my kids who are very active outdoors including camping.

Take care,
John

 

[ACRbling]

Glad to help!

Let me know what you think of the light when you receive it. So do you know if you're going to get the quark with the tactical or regular ui?

 

[asdalton]

BTW asdalton, I have the T20 as well, but w/ the XPG-R5 and love the balance of flood/throw/spill. But I have been strongly considering adding the Q4-5A drop-in, but as you backhandedly point out, a newer neutral white is at least six months past due at ET and it could be months longer before we see, say an R4 neutral.

The XP-E Q4 neutral white module does have a lot more throw than the stock XP-G R5 module, due to the XP-E emitter being smaller.

There's a reason why not everyone on CPF is jumping on the XP-G R5 bandwagon.

 

[jcalvert]

"Bin" is just the generic term it sounds like, a container for sorting/categorizing.

LEDs have somewhat wide manufacturing tolerances, so they are first created and then binned (sorted) based on how they test afterward. Luminous flux and chromaticity (tint) are both used in the sorting process, each with several bins (the letter-number labels).

If you want all the dry stuff in official form, Cree has docs.

As much as I like to eventually learn all the technical aspects of how anything works, I really like this layman's explanation!!! Very nice, thanks!

John

 

[jcalvert]

The XP-E Q4 neutral white module does have a lot more throw than the stock XP-G R5 module, due to the XP-E emitter being smaller.

There's a reason why not everyone on CPF is jumping on the XP-G R5 bandwagon.

Are you speaking of the Q4 w/ 5A bin that is available as a drop-in module for the T20?

If so and if I were then to order the XP-E Q4 5A module for my T20 with the default LOP reflector from Tod at Illumination Gear (which is the only place I will order my EagleTac products), then I will have less lumens with neutral white illumination, than the XPG-R5 LED (LOP) that came with the T20 a month ago, but more throw (lux) because the lesser lumen Q4-5A is a smaller LED?

If this is correct, I will definately order the Q4 module for the T20 and check out its "naked eye" light emission compared to the XPG-R5. If this stands to be the case, I would then just order the remainder of a second T20 and have both. One for my car, one for my wife's and take both when we go camping in the backwoods of Northern Michigan. Please advise! Thank you!

John

 

[jcalvert]

Hey Alvin, would do me a favor and look at both of the 4Sevens, Quark 123/2 links and tell me which is the one you have?

1. http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=297_402&products_id=2317

2. http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=297_402&products_id=2323

And what is/are the differences between the two, so that I have an idea why you bought three? Thanks!

John

 

[ACRbling]

The first one is the one I have three of. They're the 123/2 tactical models.

With the tactical user interface I can program 2 levels of output for when the head is either tightened or loosened. Also the tactical models come with a forward clickie switch, for momentary on.

The second link is the regular model with a reverse clickie and regular user interface. There's no programming available, so you have to cycle through the modes and blinky's with half presses of the switch.

Get the tactical...NOW. Enough of this

 

[jcalvert]

The first one is the one I have three of. They're the 123/2 tactical models.

With the tactical user interface I can program 2 levels of output for when the head is either tightened or loosened. Also the tactical models come with a forward clickie switch, for momentary on.

The second link is the regular model with a reverse clickie and regular user interface. There's no programming available, so you have to cycle through the modes and blinky's with half presses of the switch.

Get the tactical...NOW. Enough of this

I just had to be sure I was ordering the right one...so consider it done.

No more bugging about the Quarks, but no promises on anything else!!!

John

 

[ACRbling]

Enjoy!:twothumbs

 

[Neo9710]

Has anyone tried to mount this to a rifle by any chance?

 

[sfca]

I wanted to chime in and ask if the QT and Maelstrom share the same forward clicky.

I didn't like the Quark Turbo clicky feel, the Maelstrom looks like it extends farther out - different switch/feel?

 

[jcalvert]

I wanted to chime in and ask if the QT and Maelstrom share the same forward clicky.

I didn't like the Quark Turbo clicky feel, the Maelstrom looks like it extends farther out - different switch/feel?

sfca,

Although I don't have my Quark 123 2 Tactical yet and I don't have the Turbo (which I'm considering), my only basis of comparison is that it does stick out a tad more and it is more stiff than my EagleTac T20C2 MKII or my Fenix TA21. I know it's not the comparison you were looking for, but in the end, I guess any of my lights will have little differences like that and it doesn't bother me. But I'm not you and I respect that you may feel differently with a preference for more consistency, which if I had a choice, I would prefer too.

However, as for the G5, if you can adapt to the G5 clicky's personality, then you'll find the light itself is awsesome. The throw at (17k+ lux) for such a small diametor and relatively shallow head is incredible which is the primary reason anyone should be interested in the G5 in my opinion. I would give it a try and return it if you don't like it. And as I've mentioned before, Planet Optics has it for $110 w/ free shipping and I believe a 30 day return policy.

All the best,
John

 

[Lemonhead]

From the product description, it looks like the Planet optics version might be the original G5. They still list the low output, which has been eliminated on the newest G5s. I sent an email to Planet optics for confirmation.

 

[ti-force]

** edit**

 

[ti-force]

**edit** slightly off topic