Acebeam K60 (1xXHP70, 4x18650) Review

[windstrings]

I saw that guy posting warnings too... May have been a competitor I don't know.
Buts lots of liability in a light that recommends non protected cells...

I haven't seen an option to charge.

 

[markr6]

I saw that guy posting warnings too... May have been a competitor I don't know.
Buts lots of liability in a light that recommends non protected cells...

I haven't seen an option to charge.

Probably thinking of the X60 regarding in-light charging. But, I've also seen reports on BLF about some lights (K40) DIScharging cells unevenly. That is holding me back a bit from getting one.

 

[windstrings]

Most prefer using a dedicated charger on non protected cells, I'll take the lower price point and go without it in the light.

 

[candle lamp]

Thanks for the great review! The K60 just caught my eye today

While researching this light, I came across a controversy from some others who mentioned issues with the battery carrier, and uneven charging/discharging - I didn't know you could charge batteries in this light at all? And some other unresolved issues from the manufacturer. Have any of you encountered these, or have they all been suitably addressed and fixed? Some bugs are inevitable, but as long as they are fixed, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm just big on safety, especially battery safety. Some of you will remember me from the old incandescent hotwire days (when such masters like Ginseng and bwaites walked amongst us) where we made a BIG deal out of battery safety when we were driving cells at their absolute limits because we didn't want anybody to get hurt.

That aside, the XHP70 looks INCREDIBLE!! And I really like the ring UI... big U2 fan here, rotary collars are the way to go

If there are no issues, or they've all been resolved, I might need to seriously look at the K60... so tempted....

Thanks for your support and information. KevinL! The K60 has no built-in charger in the light. Please do not worry about that matter. Actually, I use the normal charger for charging the cells, except when I don't have the charger (i.e., on the move or for an emergency).

Probably thinking of the X60 regarding in-light charging. But, I've also seen reports on BLF about some lights (K40) DIScharging cells unevenly. That is holding me back a bit from getting one.

Yes, the X60 is the built-in charger light, but I don't have it. For the K40, would you please explain in detail?

 

[KevinL]

Thanks guys! Yes, it seems I was mistaken indeed, the K60 was (unfairly, since it has no charger) dragged into an issue involving an X60. Therefore this should not be an issue. I plan on using matched cells with a Xtar VC4 external charger, which has received a very through safety evaluation from HKJ

I'm interested in hearing about the discharge issue though, I find that a bit odd - with a topology of 4S1P, using evenly matched cells, why would they discharge unevenly? There's no other current path to travel through...

Also important to note that all such high-current, high power lights should use matched cells - this has always been true since the 'good old days' (not literally) when we were burning tungsten like no tomorrow. good cells and best practices are the owners' responsibility, something I've always emphasized too since my ROP days.

 

[candle lamp]

I'm interested in hearing about the discharge issue though, I find that a bit odd - with a topology of 4S1P, using evenly matched cells, why would they discharge unevenly? There's no other current path to travel through...

The uneven 18650 cells discharge that are in series is very typical. Other people have observed the same thing. It is more phenomenon than issue, in my view. Also it's related to all battery chemistries, and I experienced it in 2~4 cell lights. I don't know why the discharge of the multi cells is different. It would be considered somthing of a mystery.

 

[KevinL]

The uneven 18650 cells discharge that are in series is very typical. Other people have observed the same thing. It is more phenomenon than issue, in my view. Also it's related to all battery chemistries, and I experienced it in 2~4 cell lights. I don't know why the discharge of the multi cells is different. It would be considered somthing of a mystery.

That's what I thought too. As you can guess from my join date, I've been addicted to lights for a very very long time and we would not consider anything to be amiss if individual cells discharged to about 10% of each other, give or take a little bit, this is quite normal. By 'uneven discharge' we would be looking at very severe discharge on one cell, while others remaining at normal voltages. eg. 3V on one cell, 3.7V on all the others, more than 20%. 10% would still be within tolerance.

And even in such a case, the first course of action would be to check if the cell was defective, because this is the most common cause. Sometimes it happens. With a good analyzer (discharge capable with mAH reading) we would be able to work this out.

The second thing would be to ensure that the cells are evenly charged. When cells are charged in series, as is the case with a soldered pack (more common in the incandescent days, eg. some versions of the ROP-4D, bwaites USL, various Ginseng lights), they may need to be balanced as a single charge of all cells in series may not bring ALL cells to the same voltage. This should not be a concern with the K60, eg. if one charges the cells in a good 4-bay independent channel charger such as the various Xtar series (I just bought a VC4), then they should all be topped up to exactly 4.20V regardless of their initial charge state, thus they are already balanced.

Are you able to charge all cells independently, use a matched set of cells, and run a full discharge test and measure the finishing voltages? If it is within 10% variance I can say that we will be able to put this matter to rest

 

[markr6]

The second thing would be to ensure that the cells are evenly charged. When cells are charged in series, as is the case with a soldered pack (more common in the incandescent days, eg. some versions of the ROP-4D, bwaites USL, various Ginseng lights), they may need to be balanced as a single charge of all cells in series may not bring ALL cells to the same voltage. This should not be a concern with the K60, eg. if one charges the cells in a good 4-bay independent channel charger such as the various Xtar series (I just bought a VC4), then they should all be topped up to exactly 4.20V regardless of their initial charge state, thus they are already balanced.

That's a good point. I have a 4-bay charger coming in the mail now that I'm into more 3x and 4x18650 lights. I found my two separate chargers can vary a good .02v or so. May not be a huge deal, but just the convenience of a single charger is worth the price for me.

 

[Overclocker]

this is my 96-cell pack. if you start out w/ brand-new high-quality cells you don't even need to balance charge it. i rarely do a balance charge. almost daily i just juice it up with 2 wires

however! if you got 4 random cells that don't get used EXCLUSIVELY as a foursome. i.e. have different # of cycles, different calendar life, different discharge patterns. then OF COURSE they'll get out of balance relative to each other even if they're the exact same model of 18650

 

[windstrings]

Tesla would have nightmares if it were too critical.. Of course they're cells are all same type and very high quality but they use ungodly amounts with tons of room for error.

 

[mattheww50]

Tesla has an advantage. They know EXACTLY what they are getting. I.E. they can make sure that all cells in a pack are from the same lot, and consequently can be expected to be essentially identical. When we buy individual cells as consumers
we have no idea what lot or production date each cell represents.

 

[KevinL]

this is my 96-cell pack. if you start out w/ brand-new high-quality cells you don't even need to balance charge it. i rarely do a balance charge. almost daily i just juice it up with 2 wires

however! if you got 4 random cells that don't get used EXCLUSIVELY as a foursome. i.e. have different # of cycles, different calendar life, different discharge patterns. then OF COURSE they'll get out of balance relative to each other even if they're the exact same model of 18650

That's pretty freaking awesome! What are you powering with it? That's a TON of cells... Even for NIMH we seldom saw such high cell counts.

Nice userpic too.. AMD K5 166 - good memories of an age long past

 

[Overclocker]

That's pretty freaking awesome! What are you powering with it? That's a TON of cells... Even for NIMH we seldom saw such high cell counts.

Nice userpic too.. AMD K5 166 - good memories of an age long past

haha can you tell my age LOL. so this post isn't too OT here's a beamshot i took of the K60 last night:

for reference, the K40m:

 

[KevinL]

Haha don't worry, I'm showing my age too if I recall such a chip! (had one.. it was pretty good, except for FPU stuff.)

Yes, back OT so as not to hijack this thread. I see your application is very much more challenging on the batteries than what lights normally impose on them, so 4 matched cells should be helpful. Generally, if bought together, there's a reasonable chance they'll be from the same batch, and 'close enough' is generally good enough. I think it just restates the importance of proper battery management especially since the K60 is starting to reach into the territory of good old fashioned hotwires with regards to demands on the battery, power output from the front, and wattage.

After all, if we're looking at 50 watts to the LED - that's previously a level we used to run hotwire MR16s and various Osram bulbs. A similar level of care is needed with the batteries. That having been said, we did it frequently, and safely.

This K60 is getting more and more interesting, thanks for the beamshots! It's VERY significantly brighter than the K40M! Anybody wants to buy my lights so I can free up some budget for the K60

 

[candle lamp]

Are you able to charge all cells independently, use a matched set of cells, and run a full discharge test and measure the finishing voltages? If it is within 10% variance I can say that we will be able to put this matter to rest

I used Xtar WP6 II for years until purchasing the VP4. I use VP1 for 2 cells charging. I will buy the VC4 in july.
Somtimes, I measure the finishing voltages of the cells after runtime test of the multi-cell lights, the variance is less than 0.2~0.3V (i.e., less than 10%). it seems the range of the variance depends on the output & number of cells.

 

[KevinL]

I used Xtar WP6 II for years until purchasing the VP4. I use VP1 for 2 cells charging. I will buy the VC4 in july.
Somtimes, I measure the finishing voltages of the cells after runtime test of the multi-cell lights, the variance is less than 0.2~0.3V (i.e., less than 10%). it seems the range of the variance depends on the output & number of cells.

Xtar makes a lot of very nice chargers I had their WP2 for the last 5 years or so. Accurate and safe.

Thanks for the measurements, that's great news! That's not a significant variation in the voltage, and it falls within what we'd consider very acceptable.

 

[KevinL]

Done and +1 to the ranks of the K60 owners: me. Quick writeup on first impressions:

After playing with it for a little while, EVERY OTHER LIGHT I have looks dim. Even on partially depleted IMR batteries, which don't run the 5K level at full blast (I haven't had time to charge them), the K60 is VISIBLY brighter than the TK75 on fresh cells. The ring UI is so much nicer, and makes the K60 a surprisingly practical light: if you set aside the size, coming as I do from the days of much larger lights (eg various Maglites of considerable length), it's actually really quite useable.

Firefly mode is very charming - amazingly, it is dimmer than all other lights I have (various SF, Fenix, and an Olight). Perhaps this is my first true firefly light.. ironically, my most powerful as well. I know, right?

High mode gets really toasty, really fast: I was thinking gloves might be a nice accessory. But we are talking about the obvious here: a 42+ watt front end. You know what you're asking for if you decide to get something like this. This is not a light for beginner owners, just like the insanity-class hotwires (back then, 3K+ lumens) were mainly acquired by those with a familiarity of how to feed and tame the beast, or at the very least, were committed to learning how. That having been said, today's insanity class LEDs are much safer, and easier to operate than the risky hotwires of old. To put it into perspective, once upon a time, we were pulling a mere 3K lumens from over 120 watts of power. And once upon a time you needed HID to get anywhere in the realm of 3K. Quad core LED meant 100 lumens (Luxeon V), not 5K. And I was just telling the story of the charming 10W Welch Allyn HID capsule in the Mag2HID - a mere 500 lumens!

The key advantage with today's LEDs is the ability to dial down the power. Oh, I remember we had PWM incandescent dimmers, and I used them too. They were brilliant, but today's LEDs offer much more consistency and control over power outputs. A firefly mode and a 5K mode in the same light? Up till last week I wouldn't have believed it.

Thank you Acebeam: great job on the K60. For a light with so much power, it is surprisingly practical and useable as well.

 

[windstrings]

Done and +1 to the ranks of the K60 owners: me. Quick writeup on first impressions:

After playing with it for a little while, EVERY OTHER LIGHT I have looks dim. Even on partially depleted IMR batteries, which don't run the 5K level at full blast (I haven't had time to charge them), the K60 is VISIBLY brighter than the TK75 on fresh cells. The ring UI is so much nicer, and makes the K60 a surprisingly practical light: if you set aside the size, coming as I do from the days of much larger lights (eg various Maglites of considerable length), it's actually really quite useable.

Firefly mode is very charming - amazingly, it is dimmer than all other lights I have (various SF, Fenix, and an Olight). Perhaps this is my first true firefly light.. ironically, my most powerful as well. I know, right?

High mode gets really toasty, really fast: I was thinking gloves might be a nice accessory. But we are talking about the obvious here: a 42+ watt front end. You know what you're asking for if you decide to get something like this. This is not a light for beginner owners, just like the insanity-class hotwires (back then, 3K+ lumens) were mainly acquired by those with a familiarity of how to feed and tame the beast, or at the very least, were committed to learning how. That having been said, today's insanity class LEDs are much safer, and easier to operate than the risky hotwires of old. To put it into perspective, once upon a time, we were pulling a mere 3K lumens from over 120 watts of power. And once upon a time you needed HID to get anywhere in the realm of 3K. Quad core LED meant 100 lumens (Luxeon V), not 5K. And I was just telling the story of the charming 10W Welch Allyn HID capsule in the Mag2HID - a mere 500 lumens!

The key advantage with today's LEDs is the ability to dial down the power. Oh, I remember we had PWM incandescent dimmers, and I used them too. They were brilliant, but today's LEDs offer much more consistency and control over power outputs. A firefly mode and a 5K mode in the same light? Up till last week I wouldn't have believed it.

Thank you Acebeam: great job on the K60. For a light with so much power, it is surprisingly practical and useable as well.

Great Kevin, now I'm really excited!
May I ask which kelvin are you running, stock or a warmer tint, are you running the vn version with shaved dome?

 

[KevinL]

Great Kevin, now I'm really excited!
May I ask which kelvin are you running, stock or a warmer tint, are you running the vn version with shaved dome?

I see from your sig that you are an old school flashaholic with a taste for extreme lumens. A number of those HIDs have been eyed by me in the past, though I never owned them - mine usually involved 35W capsules refitted into spotlights, and the Harbor Freight 35W spotlight-sized HID. The K60 is definitely in their class though, with all the reliability benefits and power management made available with LEDs. Essentially, the XHP70 obsoletes 35-50W HIDs in my book.

Haha, I actually have no idea. To my eyes this should be cool white, estimated 6000-6500K? I usually go for those - I never liked the Neutral White stuff, looks very yellow to me. Have one NW drop-in.. ughhh no. Just feels wrong. I'm quite happy with my LEDs being cold.

This light is completely stock. Can't afford the extra for a Vinh custom, wonderful though that would be. His recommendation played a significant part in my decision though, I have a lot of respect for his work, and since he pulled the light apart and pronounced it to be a quality build, I took that seriously.

Basically - get it. Run matched IMR cells for best performance and safety. But get it anyway.

 

[thedoc007]

Tesla would have nightmares if it were too critical.. Of course they're cells are all same type and very high quality but they use ungodly amounts with tons of room for error.

They also have extremely complex monitoring and balancing systems. That is part of why battery packs are so expensive...with that many cells, you can't just hook 'em up and hope for the best.

Thanks for another great review, candle lamp!