beginner road bike???

[Robocop]

Spoke to a few shops today who all confirmed they will probably be closing out their Lemond bikes shortly. It now looks as if I will be test driving only the Trek 2.1 and possibly the Scott Speedster S30. I wanted to have at least two to choose from and now that Lemond is not really that interesting to me I may have to go with a shop that I did not like as much in order to get a nice bike......Wish me luck as Saturday I should have something to finally ride.

 

[Trashman]

The mental pic of your avatar on a bike is an entertaining one.

The funny thing is, he actually looks like a human version of his avatar. (same size and bulk) (muscle, that is!)

 

[Robocop]

My size did worry me at first however I really do not plan on ever racing so I will simply ride to stay in shape and have a little fun trying out the hobby of my g/f. I have been visiting shops locally and trying to learn the ropes of riding....you know how to be courteous and steps to follow in a group. I have been really amazed at some of the athletes I have seen at the local bike shop scene.

Every serious rider I have seen is very thin with good muscle tone and man do these guys have crazy endurance. Many of them have taken time to speak with me and every one has commented on my muscle mass saying weight is a killer for racers. Yes at 200 lbs and barely 5"8 I am short and stocky however I have fooled many 18 year old street punks after I run them down within 2 city blocks. I will never pretend to have the endurance of these seasoned riders however I believe I can hold my own against all of them as far as pedal power.

What I have found thus far and also by talking to my g/f is that in the large groups of riders here there are maybe 4 or 5 riders that always ride like speed demons. The other 20 riders kind of enjoy themselves and set a good healthy pace never trying to be first to finish. Regardless I am impressed with the sport as there is much more to it than I ever imagined....and with any hobby,sport or simple past time there are those who are the hard core type. I plan to simply get a decent bike and ride hard enough to keep in shape and learn a new hobby.

 

[Robocop]

Holy smoke if I was not confused enough already I now have found one more player to add to my list.....The Trek 2.1 and Scott Speedster S30 are nice and I dropped the Lemond however today I looked at a new maker called Felt.

I found a Felt F75.. http://www.feltracing.com/08/product.asp?catid=1504,1515&pid=8665

This bike is on sale at yet another shop for 1100 dollars. From what I can tell it has the 105/Ultegra set up on parts and physically handling this bike shows it to be the lightest. I am now test driving all 3 tomorrow however on paper the Felt is thus far my favorite. In a way I am beginning to feel as if I may be over analyzing this entire ordeal. Time will tell I suppose and thanks again for all the help.

 

[orbital]

Holy smoke if I was not confused enough already I now have found one more player to add to my list.....The Trek 2.1 and Scott Speedster S30 are nice and I dropped the Lemond however today I looked at a new maker called Felt.

I found a Felt F75.. http://www.feltracing.com/08/product.asp?catid=1504,1515&pid=8665

This bike is on sale at yet another shop for 1100 dollars. From what I can tell it has the 105/Ultegra set up on parts and physically handling this bike shows it to be the lightest. I am now test driving all 3 tomorrow however on paper the Felt is thus far my favorite. In a way I am beginning to feel as if I may be over analyzing this entire ordeal. Time will tell I suppose and thanks again for all the help.

+

Robo, FOCUS!!

Get the Trek 1.2, because of slightly beefier wheelset. They will be easier to keep true for you.
Then get some step-in pedals & shoes and cycling shorts.

 

[mechBgon]

Just FWIW, the Shimano wheelset on the Felt isn't flimsy, and they use good-quality spokes that very rarely break, not to mention easy-to-get axle/freehub parts. They can be used as a daily-driver wheelset if you want to. In point of fact, the Trek 1.2 uses cheap spokes which I'd rate for maybe 2 years of enthusiastic use before they begin to break, one by one, in the rear wheel (I currently work at a Trek dealership, but this malady isn't limited to Treks, of course).

The Felt's specs are nice (no surprise, it's a much more expensive bike) but pay attention to the fit, particularly the "drop" from seat level to handlebar level, when you test-ride the bikes. The Trek 1.2 will put your hands up closer to seat level in its default setup, if the photo of the Felt is representative of the actual item. Many riders, both first-timers and seasoned riders, prefer that more upright riding position.


Here's another riding tip: when you ride with one hand off the handlebars (eating an energy bar, drinking from a waterbottle), moving your remaining hand close to the center of the handlebar will reduce the "yaw" you'll exert on the handlebar if you hit bumps or dips, compared to holding it at the brake lever ("on the hoods," where "hoods" are the rubber grip covers over the brake lever body). Some bikes are more relaxed than others, so this may not be too big a deal, but if you find the bike veering when you're riding one-handed, keep in mind the close-to-the-center technique

Obviously this puts your hands out of reach of the brake levers, so pick your times for one-handed riding wisely.

Another stabilization trick I use is to lay my knee against the side of the frame's top tube (while coasting, obviously). This gives me some triangulation for extra control, and I usually do this when I'm simultaneously braking with my right hand and signalling turns or lane changes with my left hand.

I ride in traffic all the time, so there's lots of opportunities for this knee-on-top-tube technique for the reason I named but another reason to know it is high-speed shimmy. Some bikes will hit a harmonic at certain speeds and conditions which causes the front end of the bike to shimmy violently. I had a bike which would do that at about 44mph (but only with the aero bar attached). Laying your knee firmly against the side of the top tube damps out the harmonic and almost always shuts off the shimmy. Hopefully you never have shimmy, but it's good to know what to do :thumbsup:

 

[Robocop]

I rode them all for maybe 30 minutes each today. The Felt was the smoothest shifter however the actual fit was horrible. It was just uncomfortable to me. The Scott was very nice and fit well however the dealer was just crappy. I went in for a test drive and they seemed like it was taking too much of their time so even if the Scott did feel good I walked away.

The Trek 2.1 was smooth and light and with may tuning attempts did feel pretty good. My problem with the Trek was in actual usage it did not feel as nice as the Scott and it cost almost 400 more dollars. I was determined to find something at this shop that drove as well and after much debate I did try the Lemond Tourmalet. The dealer assured me they were Trek quality and warranty so I tried it as this was my first choice simply based on the look of the bike.

After a test ride and a discount of 100 dollars I walked away with a 2008 Tourmalet for 1059.00 and my g/f traded her bike and was able to get a new Mendone (full carbon) for 1500 dollars. We both were happy and my bike will be ready Monday. I also got lighter pedals and those clip in shoes and a helmet so I will be all set soon. My test ride was nice and I was shockedat how fast this bike was.... well actually how fast all of them were.

I really did not want the Lemond due to the recent conduct of Mr Greg Lemond and the crap with Trek however when all the smoke cleared it was the best feeling of the group. Wish me luck and I will snap a few pics as soon as I can.

 

[fnmag]

Congrats on your new steed. Enjoy. :thumbsup:

 

[jtr1962]

Just FWIW, the Shimano wheelset on the Felt isn't flimsy, and they use good-quality spokes that very rarely break, not to mention easy-to-get axle/freehub parts. They can be used as a daily-driver wheelset if you want to.

So the verdict on low-spoke count wheels basically depends upon how they're made? I'm asking because I bought some aero rims for my Raleigh last year with low spoke counts (24 rear, 20 front). If/when my airless tires get here and I finally set that bike up then you're saying they'll be as good as any other wheel? I certainly hope so-I'm around 190-200 pounds, and I ride pretty aggressively. I was little hesitant of the low-spoke count wheels but some feedback I've read basically confirms what you said.

I ride in traffic all the time, so there's lots of opportunities for this knee-on-top-tube technique for the reason I named but another reason to know it is high-speed shimmy. Some bikes will hit a harmonic at certain speeds and conditions which causes the front end of the bike to shimmy violently. I had a bike which would do that at about 44mph (but only with the aero bar attached). Laying your knee firmly against the side of the top tube damps out the harmonic and almost always shuts off the shimmy. Hopefully you never have shimmy, but it's good to know what to do :thumbsup:

One thing I've been doing for a long time is putting a little weight (i.e. small washers) on the spoke opposite the valve stem. I made a gizmo with an old sewing machine motor to spin the wheels up to high speeds (i.e. 55-70 mph depending upon type) to check my balance. This pretty much gets rid of any high-speed shimmy problem, so long as the rim stays true (but that's another story on NYC's potholed streets). Not many opportunities here for 45+ mph speeds, but at least balancing the wheels eliminates the shimmy problem you mentioned when the chance to fly does occur.

Robo,

Congratulations on your new set of wheels! Now that you're one of us just remember there's no going back from the dark side! :devil:

 

[orbital]

I rode them all for maybe 30 minutes each today. The Felt was the smoothest shifter however the actual fit was horrible. It was just uncomfortable to me. The Scott was very nice and fit well however the dealer was just crappy. I went in for a test drive and they seemed like it was taking too much of their time so even if the Scott did feel good I walked away.

The Trek 2.1 was smooth and light and with may tuning attempts did feel pretty good. My problem with the Trek was in actual usage it did not feel as nice as the Scott and it cost almost 400 more dollars. I was determined to find something at this shop that drove as well and after much debate I did try the Lemond Tourmalet. The dealer assured me they were Trek quality and warranty so I tried it as this was my first choice simply based on the look of the bike.

After a test ride and a discount of 100 dollars I walked away with a 2008 Tourmalet for 1059.00 and my g/f traded her bike and was able to get a new Mendone (full carbon) for 1500 dollars. We both were happy and my bike will be ready Monday. I also got lighter pedals and those clip in shoes and a helmet so I will be all set soon. My test ride was nice and I was shockedat how fast this bike was.... well actually how fast all of them were.

I really did not want the Lemond due to the recent conduct of Mr Greg Lemond and the crap with Trek however when all the smoke cleared it was the best feeling of the group. Wish me luck and I will snap a few pics as soon as I can.

+

Way to go on your new bikes,...hope you don't think we were being hard on ya.
Most cyclist are happy to help fellow cyclist in any way.

p.s. I did the Chequamegon 40 Mountain Bike race in 1991 with Greg LeMond.
It's a forty mile off-road race with mud, water, ect...real tough!
My time was 50 minutes off of LeMonds winning time...

 

[mechBgon]

So the verdict on low-spoke count wheels basically depends upon how they're made? I'm asking because I bought some aero rims for my Raleigh last year with low spoke counts (24 rear, 20 front). If/when my airless tires get here and I finally set that bike up then you're saying they'll be as good as any other wheel? I certainly hope so-I'm around 190-200 pounds, and I ride pretty aggressively. I was little hesitant of the low-spoke count wheels but some feedback I've read basically confirms what you said.

Low-spoke-count wheels have their own issues, such as spoke-flange breakage and rim cracking if the design isn't good. I have some Bontragers laying around the shop illustrating both points. Shimano doesn't have those woes, however. In general, low-spoke-count wheels try to make up for their lack of spokes with a beefed-up rim.

Regarding your airless tires, to be blunt, I think you'll regret them (if past experience is anything to judge by). Airless tires violate the way bicycle wheels are designed to bear a load, because where a pneumatic tire primarily carries load by suspending the wheel rim from the tire beads, and spreads out the load, an airless tire primarily operates in compression at the road contact patch. This puts heavy, focused load/unload cycling on the spokes and rim at the contact patch, resulting in accelerated fatigue and spoke unraveling. They also ride badly and corner badly, and are difficult to install and remove.

As an alternative, I'd suggest Schwalbe Marathon-series tires or Specialized Armadillos, and perhaps add some Mr. Tuffy liners (feather the ends of the liners on a grinder or sander). If your area has extreme thorn problems, add self-sealing tubes as well. If you have impact flats ("snakebite"), use larger tire casings, keep the tires at max pressure, avoid obstacles better, and consider super-thickwall "thorn-resistant" inner tubes that are very difficult to pinch.

One thing I've been doing for a long time is putting a little weight (i.e. small washers) on the spoke opposite the valve stem. I made a gizmo with an old sewing machine motor to spin the wheels up to high speeds (i.e. 55-70 mph depending upon type) to check my balance. This pretty much gets rid of any high-speed shimmy problem, so long as the rim stays true (but that's another story on NYC's potholed streets). Not many opportunities here for 45+ mph speeds, but at least balancing the wheels eliminates the shimmy problem you mentioned when the chance to fly does occur.

Shimmy is not a simple matter of wheel balance alone, unfortunately In the case of my own bike, for example, it was fine at speeds from 0 to 60mph+ without the aero bar, but adding the aero bar produced the magic combination of weight, geometry, and moment of inertia around the steering axis to produce the shimmy.

 

[PhotonAddict]

Congrats on the new acquisition Robocop. Sounds like you're all set with the essential accessories as well. :thumbsup:

 

[mechBgon]

And if you still need to score a full-sized floor pump for at home, that's another must-have goodie for topping off your tires before each ride


The clipless pedals have a learning curve, so don't be discouraged if they're tricky to engage at first. Most clipless pedals have a fixed-position front "claw" and a hinged rear "claw," and the normal way to engage is to get the nose of the cleat (metal part on shoe) under the front "claw" of the pedal, then push down so the hinged rear "claw" swings back to let the rear of the cleat in. If you look at the rear edge of the cleat, you see it's beveled so it pushes the hinged claw backwards when you push down to engage it.

So imagine an aircraft landing all wrong, nose down as it approaches the runway, putting the nose wheel down first and then the rear landing gear afterwards. If the airplane doesn't land successfully on the first try, have it lift off and come in for another landing You'll develop a muscle memory for the engagement motion before long.

Have fun!

 

[Robocop]

The accessories almost blew this deal as I had no idea this was such a costly sport. A good pair of shoes is over 100 dollars, specialized riding shorts are all close to 80 dollars, the helmet was 150 dollars, I also bought an unlimited 5 year service plan for 75 dollars, bottle cages 16 dollars, not to mention extra tubes and a pump......holy smoke it really suprised me.

I like the bike and the shop I chose took all day allowing me to be fitted for several different bikes and allowed me to ride each for as long as I wished. They even agreed to allow me to return the bike if I had any problems with fit after riding for a weekend. I now see just how important a good shop is when buying a bike.

I will get some photos as soon as possible and this weekend will be my first weekend ride with a group. I will keep you all posted as to the distances and results.

I also have a question about computers for my bike.....The shop has pretty nice ones that show distance,speed and various other functions for about 40 dollars. I did not get one yet and noticed a few at Target this weekend that cost 10 dollars. The 10 dollar ones claim to show speed and distance and this is really all I would need. Is there any difference between the lower cost bike computers vs the fancy shop versions?

 

[cy]

yep.. that's why I was going on earlier about costs of bike accessories... it's easy to drop $500 getting setup. bike shops normally make a hefty markup on accessories.

items like shoes almost have to be done locally until you get to know what brand/size is fits. but other accessories like bike shorts are easy fit mail order at 1/3 costs. gloves, bottles, cages, pumps, tubes, tires, etc are all easy places to save $$.

here's a couple of sites to get started on for better deals. others will probably post more...

http://www.pricepoint.com/
http://www.nashbar.com/

The accessories almost blew this deal as I had no idea this was such a costly sport. A good pair of shoes is over 100 dollars, specialized riding shorts are all close to 80 dollars, the helmet was 150 dollars, I also bought an unlimited 5 year service plan for 75 dollars, bottle cages 16 dollars, not to mention extra tubes and a pump......holy smoke it really suprised me.

 

[mechBgon]

Is there any difference between the lower cost bike computers vs the fancy shop versions?

Yeah, quite a lot in that particular area.

This one's worth a look: Cateye Velo 5 I use the similar Velo 8 on my commuting bike. It replaced an ancient Cateye Velo 2 from ?10 years ago?... pretty reliable stuff.

Another online store to check out is aebike.com. This is a consumer portal to the Quality Bicycle Products catalog, basically (QBP is a major distributor that most bike shops routinely order from). Even if you want to buy locally, their website is a great research tool to see what's available (for example, checking out different gearing options for a drivetrain).

 

[Trashman]

I also have a question about computers for my bike.....The shop has pretty nice ones that show distance,speed and various other functions for about 40 dollars. I did not get one yet and noticed a few at Target this weekend that cost 10 dollars. The 10 dollar ones claim to show speed and distance and this is really all I would need. Is there any difference between the lower cost bike computers vs the fancy shop versions?

I also saw the $10 computer at target, but it didn't have an average speed function, which I think you'll probably want. It may not have even had a Max Speed function, which isn't as important, but is still an interesting piece of data to have. I'm not sure if it had auto start/stop (riding time stops when you're not moving), either, which is a nice feature. I do believe, however, they had a Schwinn branded computer for around $20 and it had all the bells and whistles. On my mountain bike, I've got one made by Sigma and it has everything I need. I just moved into an apartment and don't have space for my mountain bike, so I bought a nice folder. It really moves for a 20-inch wheeled bike. It has 24 speeds and is actually as fast, if not faster, than my mountain bike, and feels pretty much the same, with the same fit. I'm currently looking for a good computer for it. I just purchased a Cateye Micro Wireless, but, being a folding bike (Dahon Mu P24 http://www.dahon.com/us/mup24.htm ), the bars to too far from the wheel for the transmitter to communicate with the receiver. I'll probably, either, resort to a wired unit, which are said to be more reliable, but may not be the best choice to use with a folder, as I've heard of people cutting the wire while folding/unfolding their bikes, or just, eventually, spring for a Garmin Forerunner 101 GPS unit and get the handle bar mount for it.

If anybody wants my Cateye, it's for sale, cheap. I never used it outside, and only mounted the transmitter for testing (I held the receiver in my hand to see if it'd work from my bars, while spinning the wheel). I got two clear replacement zip ties from my LBS for the transmitter, so it's complete. PM please, if interested, no replies here!

 

[knightrider]

Awesome bike story! I enjoy biking a lot and it was fun to read how you found out about the industry and the little things like how shops treat you, etc. Glad you found a bike you like. I have heard very good things about the Lemonds (regardless of his behavior).

I have 3 bikes right now. 2 fixed gear bikes, one speed demon and the other a commuter/errand runner. My 3rd bike is a really light and fast Bacchetta Corsa recumbent - it's like driving a Dodge Viper! I love all forms of biking and enjoy being outside and moving, and I love going really fast with no motor! Just got back from a 20 mile ride earlier (Sunday) and had a blast!

Have fun on your new bike Robocop! I'm jealous of the fun and experience you have had! Definitely post a picture of your bike!

 

[jtr1962]

I also have a question about computers for my bike.....The shop has pretty nice ones that show distance,speed and various other functions for about 40 dollars. I did not get one yet and noticed a few at Target this weekend that cost 10 dollars. The 10 dollar ones claim to show speed and distance and this is really all I would need. Is there any difference between the lower cost bike computers vs the fancy shop versions?

Even the cheapest computers nowadays seem to have basic functions like average speed, ride time, trip distance, and total distance. For example, this one on eBay for $6.88 shipped is good enough for a beginner. Here's a better one which has a lot of additional features, including cadence and a backlight, for only $32.49 shipped. Wireless is cool but not really needed unless you might be riding offroad in places where vegetatation is likely to snag the wires. As a general rule you get way more bang for your buck with wired computers. The batteries last longer, too.

Regarding cycling accessories, to this day I ride in my regular clothes and I do fine. Being that bike stores usually overcharge for accessories if I was into this stuff I would buy anything I need from either eBay or online cycling stores. Cycling clothes are way too expensive for my tastes and for me personally, I don't see the point. I'd rather spend the money on better equipment instead. If you want to be attached to the pedals but don't want special clip-on shoes/pedals then caged pedals are the way to go. Cycling shorts? I haven't worn shorts of any kind since I was in grade school. The normal pants I wear work fine for me. Some people get chafing but special underwear is available. Helmet? There are some decent ones available for way less than $150. Again, I don't wear one personally but I do recommend them to all new riders, and would wear one if I rode in group rides like you plan to. Accidents are more likely in a pack of riders going wheel to wheel than a single rider along mostly deserted streets at night. Also, the accident rate is higher until you get more experience. I had my share of falls the first few years, mostly from not watching for potholes or otherwise not being careful. Those decreased drastically after a while. Now it's down to zero for all intents and purposes. It's been at least seven or eight years since I've fallen off my bike. Water bottle? Good idea if you'll be riding several hours in warm weather. Again, I never bought one. Never needed it, even on 3 hour rides. I just fill up on water before the ride, and when I return. My preferred cycling weather is high 30s to low 50s where I don't sweat much. In summers I never ride during the day. Gloves? I actually wear regular leather gloves when riding in cooler weather but maybe cycling gloves are one accessory worthwhile if you'll be riding over bumpy roads. My point is that a cycling shop will make you think you need all this stuff, yet many people ride just fine without some or all of it. Don't forget most of these accessories didn't exist at all, or only in rudimentary form, when I started cycling 30 years ago. I've gotten used to doing without them. So did lots of others. On my budget I can't afford them anyway. But if the accessories get you more into the sport they're money well spent. I'm sure you'll be hearing opinions both ways from riders you'l encounter.

Since this is CPF, one accessory definitely worth looking into are lights. To me night riding is great. Traffic is greatly reduced, the air is cleaner. Overall cycling is much more pleasant. Chance of crashes is greatly reduced. In warm weather the temps are lower. I highly recommend it to anyone.

Anyway, it looks like you're off to a great start! The bike itself is the most important thing. You made the right decision to spend good money on a decent bike. I've seen too many people buy $99 bikes at Target, and then give up riding in frustration. One thing you might want to learn doing once you start putting on the miles is to learn how to true wheels. It's only a matter of time before your wheels will develop minor wobbles. Correcting these with a spoke wrench before they become major ones will make your riding more enjoyable.

 

[jtr1962]

Regarding your airless tires, to be blunt, I think you'll regret them (if past experience is anything to judge by). Airless tires violate the way bicycle wheels are designed to bear a load, because where a pneumatic tire primarily carries load by suspending the wheel rim from the tire beads, and spreads out the load, an airless tire primarily operates in compression at the road contact patch. This puts heavy, focused load/unload cycling on the spokes and rim at the contact patch, resulting in accelerated fatigue and spoke unraveling. They also ride badly and corner badly, and are difficult to install and remove.

As an alternative, I'd suggest Schwalbe Marathon-series tires or Specialized Armadillos, and perhaps add some Mr. Tuffy liners (feather the ends of the liners on a grinder or sander). If your area has extreme thorn problems, add self-sealing tubes as well. If you have impact flats ("snakebite"), use larger tire casings, keep the tires at max pressure, avoid obstacles better, and consider super-thickwall "thorn-resistant" inner tubes that are very difficult to pinch.

The problem where I ride is mainly glass and debris along the roads. No way to see it in time to avoid it. I've tired a lot of the things you've mentioned already. Kevlar tires and heavy inner tubes made little difference other than increasing rolling resistance. Tire liners and heavier tires I heard give a harsher ride and also greatly increase rolling resistance (pretty much the same disadvantages attributed to airless tires). It's not like my 110 psi tires ride that smooth anyway. After years of getting on average a flat a week I'll gladly take a harsher ride and possibly less service life from my wheels over having rides interrupted. In fact, I blame flats for a lot of my weight gain. Often I'll get flats one or two days in a row. I get disgusted, then the bike just sits for the next week until I finally get around to fixing it. And it's almost always the back which flats, never the more easy to repair front. You might want to read this review on airless tires. They're not as bad as they used to be. I know the ones from ten or fifteen years ago deserved the bad rap they got. Things have improved since them. The new high-rebound elastomer tires are even better than the ones in the review. They solve any remaining problems with ride and rolling resistance.

Believe me, I didn't make the decision to go airless lightly. After nearly 30 years of dealing with flats I've had it. I'd rather spend my time and energy cycling, not repairing flats. If the ride is unduly harsh I can always leave the airless on the rear but stick with pneumatics in front, where I need the most shock absorption. Being that 98% of my flats are in the rear, this would give me the best of both worlds. I'll let you know how the airless work out when they arrive.