Budget Lights forum

[eproblemsolver]

Re: Budget light goes beyond dollars

The budget section is for those who are willing to accept 90% performance at 30% of the price in my opinion.

I think that's a workable definition. I was thinking about this and figured, that to me, a budget light is one where the cost wasn't sufficiently higher than what the essential component costs would be. (Emitter, reflector, driver, switch, and body)

For example, if you add up these costs on say DIY components for a CREE XRE-Q5 flashlight you'd probably be above the cost of most budget lights you find at DX, KD, eBay, etc.. But well under the cost of a premium flashlight.

Dollar amount doesn't necessary come into play unless you're like for like specifications. For example, SST-50 and SST-90 lights don't fall under the $35-$50 range due to the component costs.

Can any titanium light be considered a budget light, if there are aluminum versions of the same light? Would we consider the titanium version a premium light? e.g. The Olight Titanium M20 is more than double the cost aluminum version. (although, I'm not sure that I consider my M20 a budget light, so perhaps that's a bad example.)

Perhaps we could come up with a lumens per dollar ratio with multipliers for features such as glass, hard anodizing, etc?

-David

 

[idlejam]

It took me a lot of research, but I ended up with three devices in the form-factor you requested:
- a Pelican with a whopping 1200 lux: http://pelican.com/lights_detail_specs.php?recordID=2250
- a Princeton Tec: http://princetontec.com/?q=node/87
- the ACR Firefly: http://acrelectronics.com/product2.aspx?sku=1916

I found a lot of 4AA and 2AAA lights in the form-factor you require but very few in the 2AA form-factor. If you are curious, I scoured the product lines of Tek-Tite, PrincetonTec, Pelican, Streamlight, Surefire, Barbolight, Insight, First-Light, Arc, Petzl, Black Diamond, FoxFury, Stenlight, ACR, Quark, Fenix, Nitecore, Olight, Wolf-Eyes, Pila and Eagletac. I figured Someone Else would cover the DX/KD/CCC angle.

Blast from the past! Years ago I bought that Pelican (or something that was nearly identical to it; perhaps an earlier model). I remember it being the first light that I had that had a surprisingly bright output for its size. It was a great little light that you could attach to a bunch of things with those clips and the pivoting head was useful. The only problem I eventually had with it (other than losing it at some point) was that one or two of the clips broke off; I think it was the big front clip and one of the side ones.

 

[speedsix]

Thanks for making this forum for us skinflints. :twothumbs


I am a cheapskate by nature and budget is my thing. I appreciate quality but there are some things that work just as well for my needs that can be had for less money. I end up buying more budget lights than any other type.

I buy one or two quality name brand lights for specific needs. When I need a special light for a real purpose, I spend the cash. For example, I needed a headlight for camping and travel to other countries. I was not about to mess around with a budget headlamp when I was in the jungle of Costa Rica. I bought a good PT headlamp that was waterproof and it was the best money I could spend.

Budget flashlights that I buy have less defined roles. Often they are just cheap sources to try out different platforms. For example, I have bought a few budget lights and now know what I like and what I don't for different uses. I would never have bought 3 Sure fires just to see what liked in a compact light. I did buy a Rominsen, a Trustfire and a Nkoray just to try them. For $50, I was able to try out 3 lights. It would have been more like $300 if I went with SF. I gave one away and kept the other as a spare. The one I like get used. If they had been SFs, that would be $200 wasted on two lights I didn't need.

 

[boomhauer]

I'm the same way with wine. If it's a special occasion, I'll spring the $$ for stuff that I know is excellent. Otherwise, I search for the $10 bargains - and they are out there. I get a lot of satisfaction from that, too.

I think the 90/30 rule for flashlights is pretty good.

 

[Unforgiven]

I'm the same way with wine. If it's a special occasion, I'll spring the $$ for stuff that I know is excellent. Otherwise, I search for the $10 bargains - and they are out there. I get a lot of satisfaction from that, too.

I think the 90/30 rule for flashlights is pretty good.

Is tonight a special occasion? :nana:

 

[boomhauer]

Nah, just a budget night so far... but the night is young! :naughty:

Originally Posted by joe1512
The budget section is for those who are willing to accept 90% performance at 30% of the price in my opinion.

 

[csa]

I agree that a dollar amount is probably a bad metric to use. Leaving it a bit open is probably best, budget lights tend to run in categories, some of which are a bit more expensive.

Besides, as inflation goes, that dollar amount will change.

As lights change in value and get older, or parts get hard to find, prices will fluctuate. Do we REALLY want to be arguing about whether or not a light is "below $50" if it's normally $80 but is on dealer closeout for $49.99 when you buy a yellow zodiak too?

I think we do mostly know them when we see them, and yes, this forum will inevitably include some comparisons to more expensive lights... we don't want to rule out all mention of more expensive things, or we lose an important part of the discussion.

 

[boomhauer]

^^Yep, couldn't agree more.

 

[elnorberto]

Just to chuck my two-penneth into the mix...

All lights strike some sort of balance between cost and performance ("performance", in this case, encompassing everything from light output and build quality to number of modes and size).

As an example, a little Photon clone picked up for £0.50 sacrifices just about all the above qualities in order to make it possible to buy a functioning torch for £0.50.

Whereas a top-of-the-range Surefire, requiring one or more relatively expensive lithium cells and the charger to go with them, has been designed to offer an extremely high level of performance but at a high price which inevitably limits the number of potential customers.

A "budget" torch, in my eyes at least, is one in which this compromise favours cost over outright quality. Some excellent torches can be had for very little cost but will always have some area of compromise which a more expensive light would not.

As an example, my Akoray K-106 offers excellent light output, a choice of modes and a nice compact size, but is lacking in terms of ultimate build quality and reliability. I've had to carry out some minor modifications in order to overcome it's failings, which I would not expect to have to do with something more expensive - something like a Quark AA, for instance, which offers broadly similar features with vastly superior quality and reliability, but at approximately 4 times the cost of the Akoray.

So to sum up the above ramblings :duh2:, I don't think that a budget torch is defined solely by price; it's a question of performance per dollar/pound/whatever your preferred currency may be. Hence the ultimate decision as to whether a particular torch is a "budget light" or not rests entirely in the eye of the beholder!

I'm certain that there are many flashaholics out there who would consider the Quark to be a budget flashlight and the Akoray nothing more than a cheap toy - neither is wrong, just depends on what they expect, want or need from their torch(es).

 

[The 8th Man]

I like the idea of a budget light section but I am having a hard time figuring out what the guide lines would be.

I consider a budget light something I can replace at the drop of a hand, A light that I can just run out to the local store and replace. Price would not mater as much as availability but that's to me. I have alot of lights that were cheap but I had to order them and it was not always easy to find them or find them in stock. I guess it's all how you look at it.

How will we know what should be discussed?

I would love to see this bloom because I am all for a lot of the cheap lights out there but I am not sure that's the whole point and I just feel that I may not know when to jump in and with what.

 

[C-Beam]

Wow, thanks to Greta and the admins for the budget light forum! I'd stopped checking the thread I started in the Suggestions forum two months ago because I thought it was a settled issue. I certainly hope it doesn't turn out into a cat herding situation.

"Budget" to me is any light that I can use without the risk of feeling bad if I lost it. Living on a ranch means I'm out in the dark often, and sometimes I'll walk up on a light that has been laying in the field for a week. So anything $10 or under.

My favs currently are some 1 AA Home Depot leds.

 

[Vortus]

There probably should be multiple definitions based on price/performance. Likely a different sub-forum for each price point. Starting with the keychain types and others at sub $5, and then probably going to $10 and in increments of $10's up to $50. After $50, it would jump by $25's to $150. Over $150, not a budget light imo. Well, over fifty isn't to me, but the forum isn't about me, it kinda has to cover as many as possible.

To come up with the performance per dollar, I guess those true addicts would have to come up with some agreed upon best in each form factor, some sort of baseline, regardless of price, and then the budget lights could be compared to those by performance in comparison. Best if those baseline's were factory lights, not mods. A budget mod sub forum is prob already taken care of.

I was blown away first coming here, and it's still a bit overwhelming. Something I noticed alot take for granted is size, measurements are one thing, but whats it look like in the hand or some sort of scale to base the look of the light?

 

[brted]

Did the sub-forum just get a promotion with a link right under LED Flashlights on the main page (/vb) or was that already there?

 

[cheapbastard]

Thank you for this forum. It should help me to slow down my spending. I spent over $100 on led torches from a local retail store then I remembered I am a cheap *******. I am impressed by what you can get at such low prices.

 

[^Gurthang]

CB,

Welcome to CPF, have fun and read Read READ!!! You'll be blown away at whats available for not a lot of $$$.

 

[mon90ey]

Re: Budget light goes beyond dollars

Lots of opinions about what counts as a budget light. They all seem to come back to dollars. I'm thinking past that and wonder if others will to.

A budget light is one I don't need. It can be lost, given away, stolen or smashed and I won't care. It's easily replacable. If not from the local big box or sporting goods store, then no more than 1-2 days to ship (not 10 days from China). It's just bright enough, to find something under the bed, dropped behind the washer or in my trunk. It's not that exotic; maybe just one mode, maybe a plastic lens and probably no reverse polarity protection.

It's a lot of things, but a budget isn't always less than nor is it always more than $20.

+1 for all of this but to me it also will come back to dollars. If it's a budget light, it had better be cheap. (usually less than $25), and something I'm just as apt to give away on the spur of the moment. It should be replaceable fairly easily, and if it dies or is lost, it's not the end of the world. It also should perform reasonably well for its price point. Build quality and performance is usually a mixed bag for these types of lights, but occasionally a true gem will come along, and I watch for them. By the way, what happened to Budgetbenny's flashlight reviews?

 

[Old-Lumens]

When I think of "Budget Lights" I immediately think of Chinese made lights. I think of lights that may or may not be well made, but much of that seems to be in hit or miss Quality Control. (I think they will get better with time). The Other side of the world & life is different there. I keep forgetting that and I expect more because I grew up in the US at a time when Quality was still drummed into us.

Now I consider "budget lights" and "budget components" as about the only source for a very limited fixed income. It's a way to still make mods and have fun and still not break the under $100 a year bank. For me, "budget" is the only way I can still play.

Good to see CPF has a forum for this.:thumbsup:

 

[lwknight]

I think that when talking " budget " lights we should first throw out the junk catagory lightsl
Pretty much anything under $10.00 fits the junk catagory.

IMHO a budget light is one that could cost $20-$50 and is tool box tough but not up to mil spec
Eg: the coleman 2AA 140 lumen that wally world sells is about 25 bucks and virtually indestructible
and fairly water tolerant. Its not up to life and death specs because the tailcap clicky is cheapie made
but still a great edc/toolbox light.

Really most people don't need to go mil spec but think about hunters ,ranchers or even plumber/electrician
type tradesmen. They have use for tough dependable lights with long battery life but still no real need for
mil spec lights that could cost $120-$150.

 

[langham]

For me at least it is a budget light if my wife isn't mad at me after I tell her I bought another one. I am bad about modifying a light until the point at which I can no longer name it. I cannot just buy an over the counter Surefire and expect to be happy with it, no matter how great it is because I don't really care about performance, price, or durability. For me at least it is purely the ability for me to change/modify the light that attracts me to the flashlight world. There isn't a light that I own that has more than just the original body and lens (this may be in part due to the fact that all of my lights are relatively inexpensive). I don't know about the rest of you, but at this point I am all about just checking out if the light has the proper dimensions and if it will easily accept the batteries, driver, led, and reflector that I have chosen to put in it. Thanks for putting this forum up, and I guess what defines a budget light is up to the individual; I for one will not buy a light unless I consider it to be a budget light even though I want a Polarion PH-50 so bad.

 

[Rosoku Chikara]

A Budget Light: "I know it when I see it." - Justice Stewart, 1964

Thought I might try to shed some light (pun intended) on the definition problem. Someone mentioned "wine" as an example early in this thread, and I think that is an excellent analogy. I also think "restaurants" are another good example.

Anyone (if they are willing the pay the price) can go out to the "very best restaurant in town" and enjoy an excellent meal. Unless you are extremely unlucky, or have been poorly informed, so long as you are willing to spend the money, then you can fully expect to enjoy a truly exceptional meal with great service and ambiance. (I enjoy meals at expensive, sometimes very expensive, restaurants. But, I rarely spend my own money. Usually, someone else is buying!)

If you are just visiting in a town and desire "a truly exceptional meal," then you probably end up having to spend the necessary money in order to guarantee quality. But, if you are a local, and have had the time to spend "researching" new and sometimes old but "unknown" restaurants, then you can usually find a way to enjoy the same, or similar (or perhaps even better) meal, at a greatly reduced price.

By the way, this kind of "research" is more of an art, than a science. (I think it should be considered a "fun hobby" where you accept the bad with the good, in the spirit of entertainment. It is sort of like going fishing. You never know what you might catch. So, in that sense, I think of "Budget Lighting" as a hobby or sport that involves the process of successfully seeking out "Budget Lights.")

Anyway, first of all, you need to know what "a truly exceptional meal" is supposed to taste like. If you don't know the truly "good stuff" then it is hard to know it (even when you see it) at a budget price.

Take sushi as an example. The highest quality raw fish can be extremely expensive. Despite the recession, you can still easily spend $500.00 per person in Ginza, if you choose to go to such a place. But, for that kind of money you have a right to be very very unhappy if there is even the slightest thing disappointing about your dining experience.

On the other hand, there are many excellent "budget" sushi shops in Japan. Look for very busy large chain restaurants that serve only sushi. They are able to purchase their raw fish in huge (discount) quantities because they operate a large chain. And, if they are extremely busy, the raw fish stays really fresh because they sell it so fast, it doesn't have a chance to get old. You can get a great sushi meal for way less than a 10th of the Ginza shop (probably more like a 50th!)

But, stay away from your local neighborhood sushi shop and other "middle-of-the-road" sushi shops. They often have too few customers, and are often in financial trouble, so they must preserve the expensive raw fish that they have "invested" in, as best they can... and hope to eventually sell it before it actually spoils. (The only exception is, if you are truly "friends" with the sushi chef, he will tell you himself to avoid stuff that is getting a bit too old.)

Finally, what is the best value ("budget") sushi shop in Tokyo? Well, others are entitled to their opinion, but in my mind, I think of a couple of shops actually located inside the "restricted area" of the big fish market.

Things have changed some over the years, but these shops were intended to serve food and drink to the fishermen and others who have been up all night working at the fish market. Used to be, regular Japanese could not easily get in, but they would allow foreigners (tourists) to sneak into the "restricted area." Best sushi in town. Bar none. (But, the only hitch is you have to get there by 7:00am and get in line early, or else you may wait for an hour or more. Also, they sell out of rice entirely by about 10:00am and are closed again until the next morning.)

Anyway, I hope I have successfully expressed my point. I believe "The Art of Budget Lighting" is a kind of hobby or sport where you perform enough research and acquire enough experience and/or knowledge on the subject, until you can become a proper judge of a lower priced light's true worth. Otherwise, you are probably better off spending top dollar for a brand name that guarantees good quality based on their name.

I recently decided to look into AAA keychain lights, with an emphasis on those models that might possibly be practical for 10440 as well as primary AAAs. I intend to test them all with a 10440 to see which one might be most practical for my own use. And, then gift the "rejects" with a good primary battery (not a 10440). At the same time, I am also looking for a low cost, yet reliable enough light to purchase in "quantity" (10-20 pcs.) so that I will have some on hand to give away as gifts.

I selected three models in the $10-15.00 range, with High Only. Three models in the $12-18.00, with High/Low. And, five models in the $16-35.00 range, with High/Med/Low. There are many more AAA keychain lights out there (both cheaper and more expensive), but I figure that these will provide me with an adequate sample for my initial research. (A couple of the more expensive lights are name brand, so I would not consider them "budget lights." The question is how well will some of the cheaper models compare with those name brand models in both quality and performance.)

Obviously, a flashlight is a tool. And, in order to be useful (especially as an "emergency" tool) it must perform with a certain degree of reliability. If you cannot pretty much count on it to come on when you need it, it is not "budget." It is simply junk. (Just as sushi that might make you ill is not a meal, at any price. Unless, of course, you are truly starving to death...)

Sorry this got a bit long, but that's my "two cents worth."