Calling all economic experts

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brightSwede

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

I have a question for you:

Regarding the current economic situation, should I try to repay my student loan, or hope that an increasing inflation will "eat" it?

For some time I've been considering repaying it as fast as I can, but if inflation kicks in I'm not sure that's the best way of spending money.

I live in Sweden, and while we have our own currency, I guess we're quite tightly connected to the euro area anyway.
 

Uncle Bob

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

Watched "CBS News Sunday Morning" today. An economist showed a chart of the U.S. economy over the last 100 years. Even with blips for recessions the economy has always rebounded. I would take the "sky is falling" folks with a grain of salt.
 

Sub_Umbra

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

What's my take?

If the crisis is real -- that would be really bad but these are uncertain times and our reality is affected by the perceptions of the masses. For many in the West the 21st century is all about uncertainty.

In that regard it doesn't have to be real to have a very real negative impact on our society. Rising food prices, rising energy prices, it doesn't matter whether this is real or not, it's just one more uncertainty and as such it will have effects that will probably be quantifiable at some point a little farther downstream.

Personally, we've stepped up our food purchases a little bit. I'd love it if this all just turned out to be nothing. Then we could just eat the food and everyone would live happily ever after... :D
 

WAVE_PARTICLE

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It's all good. It shouldn't worry anyone the 50 to 66 percent of the USD in criculation are being held by foreign entities. No worries, mates. No worries.

China has more than a trillion U.S. dollars held in reserve. They buy up all these dollars so that they can maintain their loose currency peg to the greenback (not technically a peg, because they are allowing the yuan to increase in tiny and controlled increments per day....but the effects are similar to a peg). It is a bit of a game that China is playing in order to artificially prop up their economy at the expense of the rest of the world. Technically, the yuan....if traded openly and freely in the market, would have a much higher value than it does today. Because it is kept artificially low by the government, it makes all goods and services and investments very very attactive. Huge amounts of foreign inflows (capital) go into China. China "subsidizes" these inflows by lending to countries like the U.S. (by buying over a trillion dollars worth of Treasury notes). In essence, China is putting cash into Americans hands so that they can, in turn, buy Chinese goods...

What this whole thing does is weaken the U.S. dollar because of all the investments coming out of America (sell USD) and going into China (buy yuan)....purely due to the fact that the yuan is kept artificially cheap.

But this game China is playing is not without its consequences. You see, China is currently grappling with an inflation problem that can quickly get out of control. If not dealt with effectively, it can bring down their entire economy. The problem stems from the contrasting economies. The Chinese economy is in a boom. A boom is naturally accompanied with lower unemployment, higher capacity utilization and therefore wage pressures. This results in higher inflation, which can normally be dealt with by raising interest rates to slow growth. On the other hand, we have the U.S. economy which is currently grappling with contraction. The U.S. Federal Reserve is dead set on an interest rate decreasing track for the rest of the year and probably into 2009. Every rate decrease weakens the dollar because it makes USD denominated investments less attractive so people don't hold as many USD assets in their portfolios. But because of the yuan/dollar peg, a U.S. interest rate decline will, by default, also weaken the yuan. This makes Chinese goods even cheaper than it already is and foreign investment floods the market. Inflation would be magnified and not under completely under the control of the Chinese government. If the People's government does not act decisively, they will find themselves in an uncontrollable hyperinflationary environment that will bring their great nation down to its knees.

So, in summary, while the Chinese are exporting a huge amount of cheap goods to the U.S., the U.S. is exporting a huge amount of inflation to China. Funny how what goes around, comes around...huh?

China is a big cause of a lot of imbalances in the world marketplace... the balance of trade.....foreign exchange..... inflation. Their government needs to let market forces determine the natural course of economic development....I fear that their blatant government intervention will only lead to future woes for China and the continuing problems for the rest of the world.

WP
 
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js

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A trillion USD held in reserve by China. A TRILLION?

That. Can't. Be. Good.
 
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da.gee

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You have something against a global economy? If we can invest in China why can't China invest in the US?
 

mdocod

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

Man, A lot of this is over my head so bear with me. I listen to a AM radio show every saturday morning here in the springs. The show is now called "Money for Life" and is hosted by what I understand are the owners of a brokerage type firm here in the city by the name of "presidential brokerage." They have a solid track record of building wealth for people with their programs and have a very informative show. They are straight forward and honest investment analysts who seem to have good heads on their shoulders. They are "worried" about the economy to some degree, but they have pointed out that we have seen much worse times economically speaking in our countries history. The housing fiasco will have a trickle down effect on a LOT of markets over the next few years, in their words, it's like an ice berg. "You only see about 10% of it above the water, 90% of it's girth is under water, that is the part we have yet to experience." But they are still optimistic. To sum up their overall recommendation, ProActively manage your money in this modern world, don't stick money in an investment and wait around for something to happen or hope for a rebound after a loss. Set stop-losses on investments, get out and Move your money. If you can't find a place to put it that feels safe, sit on awhile and wait for a good "buy-in" price.
 

js

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You have something against a global economy? If we can invest in China why can't China invest in the US?

da.gee,

Of course I don't have something against a global economy!

That's not the issue. The point is that China has 1 trillion USD that it has not YET invested in the USA. They have WAY more "reserve" currency in USD than all of the US citizens combined (if personal debt is factored in).

And we haven't "invested" in China. Owning an iPod or a bunch of stuff from WallMart is hardly an investment. Kind of the opposite, really.
 

daveman

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China has more than a trillion U.S. dollars held in reserve. They buy up all these dollars so that they can maintain their loose currency peg to the greenback (not technically a peg, because they are allowing the yuan to increase in tiny and controlled increments per day....but the effects are similar to a peg). It is a bit of a game that China is playing in order to artificially prop up their economy at the expense of the rest of the world. Technically, the yuan....if traded openly and freely in the market, would have a much higher value than it does today. Because it is kept artificially low by the government, it makes all goods and services and investments very very attactive. Huge amounts of foreign inflows (capital) go into China. China "subsidizes" these inflows by lending to countries like the U.S. (by buying over a trillion dollars worth of Treasury notes). In essence, China is putting cash into Americans hands so that they can, in turn, buy Chinese goods...

What this whole thing does is weaken the U.S. dollar because of all the investments coming out of America (sell USD) and going into China (buy yuan)....purely due to the fact that the yuan is kept artificially cheap.

But this game China is playing is not without its consequences. You see, China is currently grappling with an inflation problem that can quickly get out of control. If not dealt with effectively, it can bring down their entire economy. The problem stems from the contrasting economies. The Chinese economy is in a boom. A boom is naturally accompanied with lower unemployment, higher capacity utilization and therefore wage pressures. This results in higher inflation, which can normally be dealt with by raising interest rates to slow growth. On the other hand, we have the U.S. economy which is currently grappling with contraction. The U.S. Federal Reserve is dead set on an interest rate decreasing track for the rest of the year and probably into 2009. Every rate decrease weakens the dollar because it makes USD denominated investments less attractive so people don't hold as many USD assets in their portfolios. But because of the yuan/dollar peg, a U.S. interest rate decline will, by default, also weaken the yuan. This makes Chinese goods even cheaper than it already is and foreign investment floods the market. Inflation would be magnified and not under completely under the control of the Chinese government. If the People's government does not act decisively, they will find themselves in an uncontrollable hyperinflationary environment that will bring their great nation down to its knees.

So, in summary, while the Chinese are exporting a huge amount of cheap goods to the U.S., the U.S. is exporting a huge amount of inflation to China. Funny how what goes around, comes around...huh?

China is a big cause of a lot of imbalances in the world marketplace... the balance of trade.....foreign exchange..... inflation. Their government needs to let market forces determine the natural course of economic development....I fear that their blatant government intervention will only lead to future woes for China and the continuing problems for the rest of the world.

WP
Wow, your insightful and complete understanding of the U.S. monetary system so astounds me that I'm left with utterly no words for reply...except to recommend you to go back to pg. 3 of this thread and read what we have already discussed.


Daveman posted:
"I think now would be a great time for China to stop "manipulating," according to the neo-cons, the Yuans, and start acting like a "responsible," according to the White House, international player by raising the Yuans another couple notches higher in value to the dollar. I'm sure this would finally contribute something positive to the inflationary pressure in the U.S. economy since this is what the American government, both left and right, has been asking for all along? Surely this has drawn the ire of the U.S. government not because of politics, but actual harm being done to the American economy..."
 

daveman

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OMG this thread entered a loop... should I explain you again why China exchange rate is none of US business? :nana:


Pablo
I hope you're addressing WaveParticle, Peu. In case you couldn't tell, my questions and posts in this thread were ALL rhetorical... and thanks for participating bro. :grin2:
 

WAVE_PARTICLE

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....except to recommend you to go back to pg. 3 of this thread and read what we have already discussed.
.

Ok... I'll be the first to admit that I did not read all the posts from start to finish. I am new to this thread and to read 130+ long posts, well....the thought of it is a little dizzying. :sick2:

Anyhoo.....my apologies for digging up a beaten down point...my bad.... :p


Carry on....
 

MarNav1

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

Nothing left to "invest" when you work for $10-15 hour. Don't have $30k for school so I guess the common Joe is SOL once again.
 

thesurefire

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for those of you that don't follow daily:
US dollar index hovering around 75.5
Silver up to 16.70
Gold trying to break 930 but hitting heavy resistance
oil still hovering around 90
Dow is in the green by 175 today closing at 12384
S & P up 23 points to close at 1353

with talk of another rate cut the markets may prove very volatile tomorrow.
 

da.gee

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China is playing a dangerous game. It has to allow the yuan to rise and is already doing so. They cannot continue to artificially keep the yuan down because of the inflation pressures WP outlines. The Peoples Bank of China (PBOC) raised rates seven times in 2007 to help the cause but it is unlikely to have a great affect on imported inflation. China now has higher yields than the US which means even more foreign currency will flow into their country making the cost of keeping the yuan low even greater to the Chinese government. They will have to buy more foreign exchange. It can't go on forever and there will be an adjustment. Add to that the flag waving politicians calling for heavy tariffs on Chinese goods to make up for their artificial yuan devaluation and there is tremendous pressure on them to make changes. You can only kind of play in the free market for so long before those forces catch up to you. Yes, we in the US need a good waking up and we're going to get it, but don't think it is all roses in China.
 

turbodog

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

Dire? Not hardly.

...

Most of what we hear in the media about the R word is pure hype, the purpose of which is to harm economic activity for political purposes.

...

Solid.

Can anyone say 'election year'?

Duh.

The s&p is as the lowest level in about 18 months or so. It's a great time to buy. Then sit back and watch as late 2008/early 2009 brings some great returns. After the election of course.
 

daveman

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...Add to that the flag waving politicians calling for heavy tariffs on Chinese goods to make up for their artificial yuan devaluation and there is tremendous pressure on them to make changes. You can only kind of play in the free market for so long before those forces catch up to you. Yes, we in the US need a good waking up and we're going to get it, but don't think it is all roses in China.

Tariffs? So as to force the Chinese to raise the value of their currency? So as to make the Chinese goods Americans buy EVERYDAY more expensive???

SO AS TO DRIVE UP THE INFLATION RATE HERE IN AMERICA EVEN HIGHER??? SO AS TO LET THE CHINESE MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY ON THE SAME GOODS THAT WE'LL HAVE TO BUY FROM THEM??? :crackup:

Everytime I read about some red-blooded American economist scream of injustice by the Chinese "manipulating" their currency to take advantage of Americans, I have to fight hard to hold back my :barf:.


CHINA HAS BEEN HOLDING THE LINE FOR AMERICA THE PAST 8 YEARS BY THEIR ARTIFICIALLY LOW CURRENCY. WITH THE AMOUNT OF PAPER/DOLLAR/CURRENCY/CREDIT THE DESPICABLE FED HAD BEEN PRINTING THE LAST 15 YEARS, CHINA IS A BIG, BIG REASON WHY MONSTROUS INFLATION WILL ONLY START TO HIT AMERICANS NOW.

The politicians, despite their outcries, NEED China to continue to "manipulate" its currency so the American voters will not come out for blood come election day in rage over the virtually instant increase in inflation.

It's all a dog-and-pony show, people, and only the idiots would go along with the politicians yelling "raise the Yuan, raise the Yuan." :shakehead
 

turbodog

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Re: The Economy, What's your take

So what if foreigners hold 400 billion. The boomers' parents that will die off are getting ready to disburse about 55 trillion dollars in inheritance.

400B is a drop in the ocean.
 
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