Cr123 vs AA flashlights

[mccraggen]

I love my mecarmy pt16, can't see a single AA beating that one

 

[chillinn]

It's an incredible light, though it can't take 14500 at all.

I'm weary about continuning praising SC5 series, as it's getting OT, but.... Before handling it, I had that exact same lament as well. The specs of SC5, however, make 14500 irrelevant for the SC5, because 500lm is still quite respectable for a 14500. I think the unsaid assumption is that is if it could handle 14500, then it would be a 1500lm light. But that kind of output is probably not what Zebralight would have designed. If the SC52 is any indication, had they allowed multiple chems in SC5, the 14500 would only be marginally brighter on turbo for the sake of runtime, and the lower modes would be identical. SC52 puts that in perspective.

I love my mecarmy pt16, can't see a single AA beating that one

well... 1000lm huh? No, I don't think AA can (unless maybe Vinh gets ahold of the light first? idk, regular cells aren't his thang, but maybe.) But that drops to 700lm within 3 minutes. Still, I agree, I can't see AA matching that brightness.

There is always a tradeoff between max brightness and runtime, no matter the chem or manufacturer. Maybe it is possible to create a 1000lm AA light, if runtime is not an issue. Maybe it is possible for runtimes of years, decades even, if brightness is not an issue.

 

[Woods Walker]

500 aye? How long?

The PR-1 stays at 420. No step down.

In actual field use my SC5w seems on par with most anything within it's size classification within all practical real world terms. I am still in awe of it's power and performance. There are other examples like the HL50. I can run it with either 1XAA or 1XCR123 and within the context of actual use would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Sure it will run better with CR123 but dang if I could actually see it within the context of my use. The same applies to my Armytek C1 and A1. During actual use in the woods I couldn't tell the difference. I can tell the difference in brightness when using Lithium ion for those. Brighter in both cases than primaries. At one time the difference between AA and CR123 was so obvious in the field but not anymore. I am still amazed at what these small lights can do regardless of battery type and chemisty.

 

[ZMZ67]

Selfbuilt also measured the SC5's turbo at higher than the manufacturer spec. It's an incredible light, though it can't take 14500 at all.
I really like the versatility of the 1xAA format and quality budget options. Small CR123A lights like the Olight S1 are impressive in their own way though.

No argument the SC5 is a fantastic light. The SC5w is my most used AA light where it's larger size works well with glove hands and rechargables are easy to keep on hand. Zebra really has something here but it has a few disadvantages.You are pretty much married to NiMH AAs it goes through batteries too fast to consider L91 lithiums. I suppose you could extend battery life if you don't use the max output but that is part of the point of the SC5 and IME if it is available it is going to get used.For EDC I just carry the similar SC32w if I want what the SC5w offers.

 

[Warp]

Hey guys, is there any real advantage to using a AA battery flashlight apart from the availability of the battery?

I was all in with CR123 when I first got into this. For years my daily pocket carry was a small-as-they-get 2xCR123 light, which was fairly popular and common at the time (Surefire, Fenix, 4Sevens were mine). I even put a chunky 1xCR123 on my keychain (P1, then P1D-Q5). But not any more.

There are compact 1x18650 lights not all THAT much bigger than the 2xCR123, with a massive increase in battery capacity + rechargeable. Actually, a Zebralight SC62/SC63 is smaller than a 2x123 light and comparable to many 1x123 but smashes both in performance.

The AA advantages have been well covered above...big out put on 14500 but also many different battery chemistries.

I have retired CR123 or everything but weapon mounted lights. 18650 and 14500 and eneloops and energizer primary lithium are just better choices for most people

(I now go 1xAAA keychain and 1x18650 pocket carry though Nitecore MT10A 1xAA is a strong contender as is the ZL SC52/SC5)

 

[OnlyownEnergizer250lumen]

I sort of discredit any light much bigger than the battery itself in regards to lumen output... Like the SC5 is massive for a AA/14500 light. No point carrying it over an sc62/63 unless you just want common battery capability which I view as a secondary or even less important feature. Example... The Manker E11 is borderline too big for a AA light when compared to the Klarus Mi7..

I guess im purely into size to output ratio.. Then tint / throw but if it truly disappears in a pocket and lights up a giant field I'm happy. Problem is my pockets are extremely tight (fitted suits everyday pretty much) so even an sc63 creates unwanted bulge. I just want the power without the size!

To EDC a 25.4mm X 82mm with 535lm output when I could EDC a 24.5mm X 92.5mm with 1300lm output personally to me is completely and utterly pointless. The latter is brighter and easier if not equal to carry. I'd feel 10 years behind in technology carrying the former knowing that others get over twice the power in the same size package...

I understand there's more to flashlights than brightness of course, no need to explain I've been on the forum for some time, just can't do without the wow factor. Ultra Compact power simply feels euphoric and other nonflashaholics agree.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Zebralight SC5
Zebralight SC5w

Links only for proof of 500+ lumen specs on AA, these beauties live on backorder at the manufacturer, but are still in stock at some trusted resellers (such as Night Owl Gear <3 <3 <3 )

Eneloop AA FTW!!

They are certainly cool lights. But the 500 lumen claim is rather misleading.

As the drop lumens quickly and only attain 500 lumens for the ANSI FL1 rating. Don't get me wrong, still hugely impressive. But have a big step down to far more moderate levels.

 

[Woods Walker]

They are certainly cool lights. But the 500 lumen claim is rather misleading.

As the drop lumens quickly and only attain 500 lumens for the ANSI FL1 rating. Don't get me wrong, still hugely impressive. But have a big step down to far more moderate levels.

From their website. Nothing misleading there. 500 lumens then after 3 minutes 304 lumens for 0.8 hours. Or H2 at 304 lumens for 0.9 hours. Nothing far more moderate about that IMHO however never ran a runtime chart etc so who knows. That said 304 lumens is still really impressive and during actual use I am hard pressed to notice the step down in terms of actual effectiveness of the gear item. Also it's right there in black and white. No tricks etc. It's not a perfect gear item as the UI isn't my favorite and the mass thicker to accommodate this level of performance in so short of length but just relaying my actual field use experience with this light. I actually prefer using the medium settings as don't often have a need for the higher ones. The runtimes there are very good. Again in keeping with the theme of this thread I would be hard pressed to distinguish this 1XAA light using NiMH from one using 1xCR123 primary in the field conditions with a possible notable exception of deep winter. I never tested it use 1XAA lithium primaries during those conditions.


Light Output (runtimes)

• High: H1 500 Lm (3min, then 304lm, total 0.8 hr) or H2 304 Lm (0.9 hr) / 187 Lm (1.8 hrs) / 107Lm (3.5 hrs)
• Medium: M1 45 Lm (8.5 hrs) or M2 19 Lm (16.5 hrs) / 7.5 Lm (42 hrs)
• Low: L1 3.0 Lm (4 days) or L2 1.0 Lm (16 days) / 0.28 Lm (50 days) / 0.1 Lm (4 months)
• Beacon Strobe Mode: 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1
• Light output are ANSI out the front (OTF) values. Runtimes tested (and parasitic drain estimated) using Panasonic Eneloop Pro AA batteries. Remaining battery power, about 10-20%, after step-down are not counted towards the runtimes.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I didn't say Zerbralight were misleading on their site. Just that in this thread claiming it as a 500 lm light is a little misleading.

That said, it is clearly engineered to give a higher headline figure. Nothing wrong with that, lots of companies do it.

And 300 lm is still impressive for an AA. But the Zebralight is somewhat of a rarity in the market place and you most certainly pay for the privilege.

 

[anthon87]

I think it depends on personal preferences, I notice more in my pocket a S1 Baton than a S1A, I prefer Thinner - longer flashlights over thicker-shorter

 

[ronniepudding]

I used to strongly favor AA's for some of the reasons stated above, but these days I'm getting to like CR123 lights as well. For single-cell lights, I sometimes like the shorter CR123/16340 form factor. Eagletac D25C is one of my favorite lights for this reason, it feels like it's just the right size (subjective) for many uses. In fact, I think it's safe to say that I'm using 16340s BECAUSE of this light ... and because 16340s DON'T fit into anything else in my house other than a flashlight.

Having said that, for applications where rechargeable cells will work (the majority of my use-cases), Eneloop AAs are still my favorite battery for the safety factor. Versus li-ion cells, I don't need to hover around Eneloops while they charge, I don't need to worry (much) about over discharge, and someone else in my family can put them into ANY device and nothing bad will happen. I've stayed away from 14500s for this reason -- but if I didn't have to worry about the safety/mistakes of others, and if I was into chasing lumens, I would probably prefer 14500s to 16340s for the capacity difference, and for the ability (of most AA-sized lights) to use a wider variety of chemistries.

L91 Energizer AA lithiums, if I remember right, have about 3000 mAh's so if you compare these to 1500 mAh CR123's Watt hrs. should be about the same (half the Voltage but double the Amp hrs. with the L91s). Still CR123's might have a small advantage in a single cell LED since they are closer to the drive Voltage of the LED, requiring less of a step up than a single AA.

+1
For applications where primaries are needed (ignoring alkalines for the moment), there isn't any significant cost difference between L91s and CR123s unless you need to buy them at the local drug store (even then, L91s aren't especially cheap); in single-cell lights, I believe that their performance is pretty similar at <250 lumen levels.

So I guess my answer is "both are good"... it kinda depends upon the circumstances, the light(s) you want to use, etc.

 

[TheShadowGuy]

To each their own, I guess. I don't see a 3 minute stepdown as an issue when discussing max lumen output, especially not when we tolerate significantly shorter bursts from modded flashlights.
Anyway, back on topic: Do you guys prefer longer but slimmer AA lights or shorter but wider CR123A lights for pocket carry? I have a small extra pocket that can accommodate either, but I like the shortness of CR123A so that it doesn't interfere with the next pocket. For normal pocket carry, I think I prefer AA because of Eneloops.

 

[Woods Walker]

I didn't say Zerbralight were misleading on their site. Just that in this thread claiming it as a 500 lm light is a little misleading.

That said, it is clearly engineered to give a higher headline figure. Nothing wrong with that, lots of companies do it.

And 300 lm is still impressive for an AA. But the Zebralight is somewhat of a rarity in the market place and you most certainly pay for the privilege.

It does cost money but there are cheaper alternatives which do illustrate the point as well. For example.

Armytek A1 in both Prime and Tiara.





Naturally I take manufacture numbers with a grain of salt. For lithium ion they have 450 lumens listed.

Using 1 X AA NiMH,

Firefly1: 0.15lm / 90d
Firefly2: 1.7lm / 200h
Main1: 10 lm / 25h
Main2: 70 lm / 3h
Main3: 210 lm / 1.2h
Max: 370 lm / 30min
Strobe: 10Hz
Beacon: 0.6Hz

The 1XCR123 C1 Note the HL50 setup for 1XCR123. I have tested the difference using both 1XAA and 1XCR123 on multiple lights in field conditions as this has been a topic of consideration for some time.



Armytek C1 using 1XCR123. Lithium ion is listed around 500 but I can't distinguish the two.

Firefly1: 0.15lm/130d
Firefly2: 1.7lm / 300h
Main1: 10 lm / 40h
Main2: 70 lm / 5h
Main3: 210 lm / 2h
Max: 400 lm / 35min
Strobe: 10Hz
Beacon: 0.6Hz


Sure the numbers show an edge for 1XCR123 but not to the degree it did a few years ago. For example I don't have the numbers for the Quark but it sure seems a good deal brighter on 1XCR123. The AAA adapter is a prepper omnivore thing. A great light when using 1XAA or 1XCR123 even if the 1XCR123 appears brighter.



HL50 can also run 1XAA and 1XCR123.



Yes there is an edge for 1XCR123

• Utilizes Cree XM-L2 T6 neutral white LED with a lifespan of 50,000 hours
• Uses one 3V CR123A Lithium battery or AA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) battery
• Three Modes of Operations and One Burst Mode
  • CR123A Battery Specs:
    • Low: 4 Lumens (150 hours)
    • Mid: 60 Lumens (9 hours 45 min.)
    • High: 170 Lumens (3 hours)
    • Burst: 365 Lumens
  • Ni-MH AA Battery
    • Low: 3 Lumens (110 hours)
    • Mid: 55 Lumens (6 hours 20 min.)
    • High: 150 Lumens (2 hours)
    • Burst: 285 Lumens

However in actual field use I prefer to use 1XAA as it can't use lithium ion. Just cheaper and the performance within actual field use is hard to distinguish. I do like the option of 1XCR123 however. I am not sure why the performance gap is dropping in terms of actual field use. Maybe the lights are getting so bright regardless of batteries it matters less and less. If a CR123/AA light can use lithium ion then edge starts to shift more to AA IMHO.

 

[tops2]

To each their own, I guess. I don't see a 3 minute stepdown as an issue when discussing max lumen output, especially not when we tolerate significantly shorter bursts from modded flashlights.
Anyway, back on topic: Do you guys prefer longer but slimmer AA lights or shorter but wider CR123A lights for pocket carry? I have a small extra pocket that can accommodate either, but I like the shortness of CR123A so that it doesn't interfere with the next pocket. For normal pocket carry, I think I prefer AA because of Eneloops.

Yeah, even enough smaller 18650 lights I'm interested in can't sustain 1000 lumens for an extended period anyways. I like the turbo on my SC5w, but if I need the extra lumens, I typically use the 187 lumen mode in short "bursts". When I use the SC5w, I use the 45 lumens and moonlight modes the most.

About the CR123A/AA debate, with the introduction of the Olight S1A..I'm heading down that internal debate. The length of the Olight S1 is awesome for pocket carry. The diameter though is still a bit wide depending on pants, but for 99% of my clothes the S1 is great. The S1A is slimmer in diameter, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make..considering the trade off is the S1A is longer than the S1. The few times I forget or don't bring my S1 but only my keys, I really like the pocket carry feel of the Nitecore Tube and my AAA keychain lights. Granted the max output is way lower, but the difference in pocket carry is significant to me.

Having said that, for applications where rechargeable cells will work (the majority of my use-cases), Eneloop AAs are still my favorite battery for the safety factor. Versus li-ion cells, I don't need to hover around Eneloops while they charge, I don't need to worry (much) about over discharge, and someone else in my family can put them into ANY device and nothing bad will happen. I've stayed away from 14500s for this reason -- but if I didn't have to worry about the safety/mistakes of others, and if I was into chasing lumens, I would probably prefer 14500s to 16340s for the capacity difference, and for the ability (of most AA-sized lights) to use a wider variety of chemistries.

I used to also want to stay with nimh AA/AAA too for safety reasons. The rest of my family can careless about battery/light safety so I typically don't like to leave 500+ lumen lights with batteries inside them (or I'll untwist the tail cap) in case they'll activate turbo and leave the light unattended placed face down. And like you, I also don't want 14500 cells around in case someone in the family grabs it to replace another battery else where at home.

I'm a lot more comfortable with li-ion now, but I still only have 2 18650 batteries and only a few 18650 lights.

 

[Timothybil]

I'm going to be a little different and say I really don't care either way. That said, I bought a Nitecore EA11 instead of the EC11 specifically because of the availability of the AA form factor if the need arises. I am currently using an IMR 14500, which gives me essentially the same output as the EC11 does with an 18350 cell. The output in Turbo when using non-LiIon cells is a staid 160 lumens, which is nothing to write home about, but more than enough, since in my life an emergency situation could be handled quite well with that output. And since there is only a few mm difference in length, and the head and tail cap are identical for both, size isn't really an issue either.

 

[TheShadowGuy]

I'm with you on AAA keychain lights. I'm carrying a Thrunite Ti3 and copper Olight i3e. They are so small and light for what they do! Overall though they just supplement a primary EDC such as my BLF A6 or Olight S1.

 

[chillinn]

I sort of discredit any light much bigger than the battery itself in regards to lumen output... Like the SC5 is massive for a AA/14500 light.

:thinking:
Here I was under the impression it was among the smallest AA lights. Perhaps a member with a nice AA collection can post a family portrait?

They are certainly cool lights. But the 500 lumen claim is rather misleading.

As the drop lumens quickly and only attain 500 lumens for the ANSI FL1 rating. Don't get me wrong, still hugely impressive. But have a big step down to far more moderate levels.

Yar, that is true for most lights, but not Zebralight. Isn't the rating measured after 30 seconds? SC5 handles 6 times that with constant brightness before auto-step down, and can handle several turbo re-initiations before the cell is draineed. Zebralight does not dim with a corresponding drop in voltage; it features constant brightness.

 

[jon_slider]

Perhaps a member with a nice AA collection can post a family portrait?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...L2)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-VIDEO-and-more!

From left to right:
Panasonic Eneloop Pro AA NiMH; Zebralight SC5, SC52, SC51; L3 Illumination L10; Skilhunt DS15; Olight S15; Thrunite Archer 1A V2.

Zebralight SC5: Weight 58.3g, Length 81.5mm, Width (bezel): 22.6mm, Width (max) 27.0mm
L3 Illumination L10: Weight: 20.7g, Length: 79.4mm, Width (bezel): 17.1mm

fwiw, the L11c is 29g

 

[tops2]

:thinking:
Here I was under the impression it was among the smallest AA lights. Perhaps a member with a nice AA collection can post a family portrait?

I don't have any pictures..but the SC5w is a "beast" (in my opinion) of a light. Imagine a slightly shorter version of the Zebralight SC600 MKIII. Weight wise with battery according to my calculations is about the same as the Zebralight SC63w with battery. Diameter is pretty large too. The SC52w is much smaller to me, but doesn't have the same output when using nimh AA.

But with this heft, my SC5w never gets hot on turbo. Its just slightly warm.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I like AAA for keychain use but I don't have much use for AA except in remote controls. Regular lithium AA/AAA do have the same usefulness in the cold that CR123A does but we're still talking 1.5v vs 3v. I like the form factor of the shorter cell a lot. Lastly, I know I'm in the minority but my lights are geared more towards "serious use" so I'm not interested in rechargeables, etc. And I have seen very very very few serious/hard use flashlights set up around AA. Thus for my purposes CR123a is simply better.