E2E Vs A2

[Quickbeam]

The chemistry of the bulb filament or the gas inside the bulb was never mentioned that I saw. I'm confused as to how regulating the electricity going to the bulb would somehow allow it to have a whiter output. Especially in deference to the fact that the light has a tighter beam to increase it's beam brightness relative to it's total lumen output, but this seems to have nothing to do with "whiteness" or color temperature. Is the filament being "overdriven" per se. but is able to do so because of the "soft start" technology, therby resulting in higher color temperature? (AKA hotter filament?)

Nevermind - I think I just answered my own question... This is it, isn't it. The bulb is being driven hotter, closer to it's melting point, in order to produce whiter light. Therefore it must be a different type of filament chemistry than that found in the E2e. This is possible not because of the regulation, but because of the soft start technology. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


We're talking about the E2e vs. A2. Light output, reasons for the color temp difference, focus differences, etc. We're just getting a little technical, that's all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[SurefireM6]

[ QUOTE ]
tkl said:
what were we talking bout? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not idea. Lumens....brightness....size matters....girls like smaller ones.....

Bottom line: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif A2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

 

[Size15's]

My understanding is that SureFire's digitally regulated A2 bulb can be finely tuned because of two things:

Firstly, the regulated powersupply means that bulb's operating perameters are tightly controlled and filament, gases mix/pressure and whatnot can be specified without the need to make the output look good as the batteries drain.

Secondly, the regulation "soft-starts" the bulb so that the bulb does not need to be able to handle insane juice both at the instant of starting each time, but also the high power of the SF123As at the start of fresh batteries compared with more normal conditions after about 15 minutes.

Lets see if I can write an analogy...
If you have a full cup of hot water, you can slowly mix in an impressive amount of sugar. But instead, if you were to tip all that sugar in at once really fast, the cup would overflow. So if you don't regulate the flow of sugar in to the cup, you'd have to have a bigger cup to handle so that you don't spill any when you tip in the sugar.
You have to over-engineer the cup to handle the peak flow.

Okay, how about this?
You have a building full of people waiting to get out. There is one doorway. You open the door and people rush to get out. All hell breaks loose because more people want to get out then the doorway allows. Some people leave, you shut the door. People still want to get out. You open the door and people rush to get out. All hell breaks loose because more people want to get out then the doorway allows.
Gradually, the rush for the door reduces in intensity as the numbers of people in the building decrease and it takes them longer to get the door.

Al

 

[PieThatCorner]

[ QUOTE ]
SurefireM6 said:

I have not idea. Lumens....brightness....size matters.... girls like smaller ones.....



[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaaaaaa... you crack me up...

Well, I definitely learned a lot in this thread. Very educational and explains a question or two I've had hovering around on my mind re: the A2 and E2e.

Good job you guys...

-Jim

 

[jtivat]

Ok I took out one of your Broadcast 3chip cameras to see what the color temp of these two lights really is. The E2e came in at 3100 and the A2 at 3200 I also had a Tigerlight at work to day and a KL1 the TL was 2700 and the KL1 6500. Also realize that the camera only has increments of 100. The test was performed by going into a dark room and shinning the light on a white piece of paper and then doing an auto WB on the camera, it then tells me the color temp. I will be doing a test with other lights also now that I know this works. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Quickbeam]

Thanks, Al.

A simple "yes" would have been OK though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

OK, OK, I know... no fair... I edited my post as you were writing yours...

BTW, I know that fresh batteries spike the filament - the same thing happens with incandescent bulbs in the home - the resistance of the filament when cool is low and more amperage flows through it than would when it's hot and it's resistance is higher - hence why most bulbs blow when first turned on. The missing element was that the A2 bulb was designed to run hotter to take advantage of the soft-start, thereby resulting in the higher color temp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[jtivat]

I can't wait to test my M6 b/c it looks whiter than my A2 for sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tkl]

[ QUOTE ]
SurefireM6 said
Bottom line: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif A2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll second that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Stingray]

[ QUOTE ]
jtivat said:
The E2e came in at 3100 and the A2 at 3200 I also had a Tigerlight at work to day and a KL1 the TL was 2700 and the KL1 6500.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have guessed the Tigerlight to be higher than that based on the eyeball method.

Steve

 

[Size15's]

That's the difference between intensity and colour temperature I suppose...

 

[tkl]

tkl, giving up on trying to stay on topic, posted the following:

i'm curious as to what numbers the new tl reflectors will put up? i'm very curious to eyeball the new tl reflector's beam as well.

last email i got from tl about the new reflectors said 7 weeks out, that was about 2 weeks ago.

 

[Stingray]

Re: E2E Vs A2

[ QUOTE ]
Stingray said:
If I take some batteries from an A2 after leaving it on until they no longer will power the incandescent lamp, and put them into an E2E, will the E2E light up at all, if so, to what extent and for how long, or are the batteries completely drained at that point, incandescently speaking?

In otherwords, at what point along the E2E curve in Brock's graph are the batteries when the A2 no longer will power its incandescent lamp?

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to quote myself but someone must have tried this by now. Anyone? Al?

Steve

 

[Brock]

Re: E2E Vs A2

I would guess it would light for maybe a minute; you can actually do that in the A2. After I ran them out and let them sit for an hour they will run at full output for about a min again.

So basically when they fall out of regulation in the A2 they are gone. You can use batteries out of the M6 that appear dead and they run 5 or so minutes before dying.

 

[Stingray]

Re: E2E Vs A2

Thanks Brock. So basically the advantage of the regulation in this comparison is perceived whiteness, not brightness, since the E2E graph stays relatively flat up to the point where the A2 falls out. What would that graph look like if the y axis was lumen output, any guesstimate?

 

[Nerd]

Re: E2E Vs A2

Brock, the Surefire spares holds 6 lithiums? Heh, storing used lithiums from the M6 for use in the A2 seems to be a good idea.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sean]

[ QUOTE ]
Quickbeam said:

<font color="blue">"The larger the reflector, the more light that is directed forward" </font>

This is not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

They why does the M3T direct more light forward than the M3? So if it's just the filament then why not just re-adjust the filament for a tighter beam and put it in the regular M3 bezel?

I'm right! Don't argue!!
MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Quickbeam]

The shape of the reflector and the focus of the filament is what creates the tighter beam, not necessarily the size of the reflector... You're wrong, don't argue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

All of the light is being directed forward by both reflectors (after all, if the light is the M3 isn't being directed forward, where is it being directed, backward?) but apparently the M3 reflector is not the correct shape to produce the sharp beam of the M3t. Surefire had to redesign the reflector shape to produce a tighter beam than could be achieved within the design parameters of the M3 reflector.

So actually, you're right, in a way. You can change the focus in a reflector within limits, and I beleive that's what we had been discussing up until now. At a certain point, the shape (not necessarily the size) of the reflector becomes a limiting factor.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further. This is way off topic (as if that would stop anyone...).

 

[Brock]

Re: E2E Vs A2

Stingray, it is both whiteness, but also brightness. If you take an E2, put fresh batteries in it and turn it on, that is what the A2 main beam looks like all the time.

This graph is light output in CP at 1 foot, not whiteness.

After about 10 minutes the A2 has a noticeably whiter beam then anything else on the chart, even though some of the other lights are brighter. I am a white light junkie...