Flashlights are getting too bright, Lumens race getting out of hand...

[HistoryChannel]

There are limits to most everything, including flashlights? I was searching a new powerful flashlight, I came across this and started to think .... when is too much.. too much? 4100 lumens? 9000 lumens? 20,000 lumens and set your car on fire?

 

[sinnyc]

It's only a race if you run in it

Just because there is a constant stream of lights being produced with ever-increasing outputs, you aren't required to buy the or buy into the hype. There are plenty of manufacturers that produce lights that are not "competitive" with the highest lumen output lights on the market but are built to last, providing a (more than?) useable light for most needs coupled with decent/excellent run times. Surefire and HDS Systems are 2 examples off the top of my head. And there are plenty of lights built in the same vein by the very manufacturers that create "Lumens Monsters". I have a little 1xAA L3 Illumination L10 Nichia that has found it's way into front pocket as my daily backup EDC and it hardly tops 100 lumens, not that I ever use it in its highest setting.

I look at most of those lights with huge numbers in the same way I look at dragsters or race cars: they're cool to look at and think about and I like to see them run but what the hell would I do with one if I owned one?

 

[HistoryChannel]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Its like a Ferrari... we really don't "need" it... but we want it...

I don't need a 4100 lumen flashlight. It would be cool to play around with though lol. I suppose there are people that would find these Wicked Laser Torch lights useful such as Search and Rescue where a 3 minute burst mode is good for when spot something off in the distance?

 

[subwoofer]

It will get to the point where lights become licensed, or at least restrictions will be imposed like the 5mW limit for lasers.

Taking this analogy I have a 50mW laser and do find it a bit worrying to use. I would not want to accidentally damage someone else's, or my own sight, so rarely (and carefully) use it. I decided against buying anything more powerful despite wanting to. I realised it was becoming just for the sake of having it.

In motorcycling, the Hayabusa was the point that the manufacturers saw sense and a faster bike was not sensible. Still someone fitted it with a turbo:



Very quick way to die or be horrifically injured.


Despite saying all of this, I still want a light sabre for Christmas

 

[HistoryChannel]

Yeah, I have a 200mw green laser and I'm afraid to use it except outside pointing at the sky or something... lol... if I point it at a wall the castoff is blindingly bright and I'm sure all that UV light bouncing back at the eyes aren't good? I do however envision myself giving a presentation and using the 200mw laser from 100 yards away someday though... lol!!

Whats the most powerful single LED light out? is it the XML2 with 1300 something lumens?

 

[kj2]

I think about this problem yeah. Every month there are coming more and more light. Every few months a smaller, more powerful light is coming out. I do wonder how long it will take before we have a single led, 18650 light running at 1500 or even 2000lumens.
More lumens can be handy in some situations but mostly not. Most I use modes between 10 and 400lumens. What if there is a light with 1500-2000lumens? how will the mode spacing be? I say, for the future, manufactures have to add more modes. Most of my Fenix lights have 4 modes. The PD32UE has 5 of them. I like that much better 6 or maybe even 8 for bigger lights would be better IMO.
It would not surprise me if there will be laws about how bright a flashlight may be. Just like it is with laser-pointers. I hope manufactures will leave the "my light have more lumens then yours" race, and start beginning with lights that run longer even at high or turbo.
Low modes are getting more and more runtime but at higher lumens, most light are still at max 1/1,5hours.

 

[Fireclaw18]

There are limits to most everything, including flashlights? I was searching a new powerful flashlight, I came across this and started to think .... when is too much.. too much? 4100 lumens? 9000 lumens? 20,000 lumens and set your car on fire?

That's the Wickedlaser Torch flashlight. It only gets something like 4 minutes of battery life. It's also an incandescent, not even an LED. At least with an LED you can turn down the brightness to a lower setting.

I don't have one, but I suspect that the Wickedlaser Torch emits a lot more infrared light than an LED light. There are LED lights available with the same or higher lumens as the Wickedlaser Torch, but I doubt they could start a fire so easily.

 

[HistoryChannel]

Accidentally turning on a 2000lm EDC light in your pocket could have.... uhm..... painful results.... depending on where the light is pointing? LOL

 

[Fireclaw18]

Accidentally turning on a 2000lm EDC light in your pocket could have.... uhm..... painful results.... depending on where the light is pointing? LOL

I think a lot of it also depends on what kind of light you have. My understanding is an incandescent light emits a lot of IR light out the front. Hence the Wickedlaser torch burning things. An LED light emits far less IR out the front, but does create a lot of heat that is radiated backwards into the body of the light.... hence the solid aluminum body.

I'd think the biggest risk of a 2000 lm LED flashlight turning on accidentally in your pocket could be the flashlight body heating up too fast, so it wouldn't matter which direction it is pointing.

 

[HistoryChannel]

touché.... but I would still want it pointing away from center so the bezel would burn my thigh and not something else... lol...

 

[Esko]

More lumens can be handy in some situations but mostly not. Most I use modes between 10 and 400lumens. What if there is a light with 1500-2000lumens? how will the mode spacing be? I say, for the future, manufactures have to add more modes. Most of my Fenix lights have 4 modes. The PD32UE has 5 of them. I like that much better 6 or maybe even 8 for bigger lights would be better IMO.

The spacing could be something like 2000lm-500lm-50lm-5lm. All of those modes would be useful, and the differences in perceived brightness would be apparent yet not very big. Keep it simple. It is just that the manufacturers tend to use modes that are quite close to each other. I only find it useful in the high output end, where runtime can be an issue.

I think about this problem yeah. Every month there are coming more and more light. Every few months a smaller, more powerful light is coming out. I do wonder how long it will take before we have a single led, 18650 light running at 1500 or even 2000lumens.

Problem? What is the problem? It is just development. It goes on. Buying a 2000lm incan would be pretty stupid (for almost all of us at least). Buying a well designed 2000lm led light might be clever. You could mostly use the lower output levels but in the rare occasion that you need it, there would be the option of 2000 lumens, too (or 4000lm or something else, just name it).

Personally though, my most powerful flashlights have been less than 500 ANSI lumens. No "high power" lasers either. I could agree that those devices are problematic and worth the worry. The damage they can do is pretty permanent. You know it, OP knows it, you have them, OP has them, and we are talking about flashlights that are getting "too bright". It is a funny world. :shrug:

 

[Patriot]

Well, if they are getting too bright (a notion that I'll never subscribe too) it happened over 7 years ago. That's when the Mac's Torch with 64623 was first introduced. Several years later Wicked Laser worked out and agreement with Mac to reproduce his light. Ever since then, about every 1-2 months, for about the last 3-4 years, someone finds one of these videos and posts it on CPF. Having owned an original Mac's Torch, and 4400L MaxBlaster, it always puts a crooked smile on my face, but it's of course nothing new or ground breaking in the development of handhelds.

These day's we've got 3500-5500L factory build LED lights which meet or exceed the lumen output of the original torch, not to mention HID. The title should probably read,

"Flashlights are getting too hot, Thermal race getting out of hand..."

 

[CouldUseALight]

That WickedLasers "Torch" drives me nuts; almost any device can be modified to catch nearby flammables on fire. Such devices are usually referred to as "hazards" :shakehead

Problem? What is the problem?

Over 50,000 lumens, people and animals nearby (and not-so-nearby) start to risk eye damage from wayward reflections. It's easy to make a case that stuff this bright should never get within 15* of the horizon (and virtually all are mounted to prevent this).

 

[Ragnar66]

Totally disagree that they are too bright........let the science roll! Smart people rule!

On the other hand.........some of the great products are purchased by idiots......and ya can't fix stupid.

 

[TEEJ]

The race is not all in the same direction. Also notice the rather large movement to sub-lumen and moon-light/firefly modes: People who complain that more than 0.001 lumens is blinding them, etc.



Also - The races in the same direction are not all going to the same destination. People doing search and rescue etc...are constantly challenged by the need to get enough light on a large enough area...and, preferably, with hand-held equipment rather than generator powered floods, etc. IE: There's STILL not enough lumens on tap for that application...the race is a marathon.

Sure, some just want the brightest light, we ARE flashaholics afterall...and just like a stamp collector really doesn't NEED another stamp, but, he needs it for his collection.

After that, there's people who don't want a LARGE light, but, they DO want a lot of light from whatever they feel is OK in their pocket. The pocket rocket race is a tough one, as heat management is so much harder with a smaller thermal mass/radiating surface area.

So, for many applications, there's STILL not enough lumens, and, they don't last long enough yet either....further room for improvement.


So, lumens are not getting out of hand...its just that humans tend to "calibrate" to whatever resonates with them as "right", and more than that is too much, and less than that is too little....its human nature.

George Carlin put it ~ like this: "...those who drive faster than me are maniacs, and those who drive slower than me are morons"


So if a given person is used to things being a certain way, regarding the stock market, flashlights, etc...that's THEIR baseline. Everything, for the rest of their lives, is judged relative to being above or below that baseline.


If a flashlight guy gets it in his head that 60 lumens is "normal"...lights brighter than that seem too bright to be normal, and lights dimmer than that are judged to be dim, and so forth.

Its human nature.

 

[Esko]

Over 50,000 lumens, people and animals nearby (and not-so-nearby) start to risk eye damage from wayward reflections. It's easy to make a case that stuff this bright should never get within 15* of the horizon (and virtually all are mounted to prevent this).

On the other hand, bare and bright sunlight can be something like 100.000 lumens per square meter and ordinary flash bulbs reached 1.000.000 lumens tens of years ago. Eyes have a nice brightness adjustment system and if said light is bright enough, eyes are also closed by reflex. Unfortunately, neither of those systems work with lasers, and very small high power lasers are already widely available through internet.

I am not too worried about flashlights getting brighter. But I can agree that some applications like illegal or unregulated headlights (used by different kinds of vehicles in traffic) can already be dangerous.

 

[Jay T]

Wait a minute, you have been here since 2004 and you just now noticed hotwires?

That light is a production version of a Mag623, these things have been made and sold on CPF from the time I started here.

 

[henry1960]

Accidentally turning on a 2000lm EDC light in your pocket could have.... uhm..... painful results.... depending on where the light is pointing? LOL

If You Have A 2000lm In Your Pocket You Must Have Big Pockets....

 

[martinaee]

It's funny you bring up this point. I have a handful of "good" flashlights now. Mostly Fenix and a few months ago I bought my first light, an E50, that cranks out some serious lumen-bajongas.

... Anyway. My point is that for the first time yesterday I did something I haven't been doing--- I bought a Fenix TK11 R5 that relatively speaking isn't a powerhouse of a light compared to what has come out in the last year. I know there are single 18650 lights pushing 900 lumens now which is why I was blocking myself mentally from getting a TK11. I purchased one because I realized most of these new crazy xm-l powered lights and even the new xp-g2/xm-l2 lights are overkill and what I really want now is to focus on primarily the utility and functionality of the lights I use. In my opinion there aren't enough lights these days that don't have 5 modes plus dedicated mode changing, plus memory, plus... plus... plus... you get my point.

I've been looking at the TK11 for a long time and never got one until now.... I think somebody was talking about this on another thread, but it just seems like it's one of those lights that stands out from others as a classic in this industry. Just like certain car models from certain years are instantly recognizable and fondly remembered I think the TK11 is one of those lights.

I was considering waiting around for an xp-g2 to be dropped into the "old" TK11, but I realized that it's not worth it and I should just get what's out there and amazing now. Of course I'm going to keep buying lights, but I don't want to get too caught up in the lumen race / emitter race / tint race / beam profile race anymore.

----> I'll add to this that once you have a small range of lights from low output to very high output it becomes interesting to get lights that fit a specific purpose. I mainly bought a 2 18650 E50 as a backup power outage light that can provide a good amount of light all night if needed, My E05 is the "always handy" light, and my TK11 will probably be my outdoor walking light primarily because of it's tough build.

 

[h2oflyer]

I just got my Eagletac SX25A6 which is pushing 1050 OTF ANSI lumens a long way .The XM-L2 U2 is brilliant white and allmost creamy.

Blows my TK35 out of the lumen race.