HDS Systems #23

[dotCPF]

+1 Arch.

One less problem in a disaster scenario can be the difference between life and death in my uneducated opinion.

The 9/11 Commission came away with less than a dozen key takeaways- one of which being the necessity of unfettered civilian access to flashlights and illumination. Knowing your runtimes is the difference between having illumination, and a paperweight for a potential duration of any given situation. Exactly why I always carry an HDS and a spare cell. Bare minimum, I know what I'm getting.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

The "disaster management" angle always makes me laugh, because if you're ever in a situation where your flashlight is your only source of illumination, and you are unable to obtain additional batteries, then you have a much more serious problem on your hands than simply your flashlight's electronic efficiency.

Like in a cave?

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Why is having two problems better than one ?

The only scenario I can think of where a flashlight would be your sole source of illumination is if you were somehow trapped underground, and if it's a situation where it is impossible to acquire additional batteries, then I would think the lack of food and water would be a significantly greater concern.

To put this in perspective, assuming a fresh battery, the HDS Rotary can run continuously on minimum for over a week, considerably longer with intermittent use. If you're not rescued by then, then you're pretty much screwed anyway.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

Having been in a disaster situation where I got to live 2 months without electricity and no running water... and no batteries... runtime is pretty nice to have. Great experience if you live through it... over 6k did not. I had crappy flashlights (considered good at the time... mini-Maglites). January 17, 1995... Kobe, Japan. Stayed 1 week before walking the 6 hours to the nearest running train station into Osaka... then came back a week later.
Wasn't a societal breakdown, the Japanese were very well behaved... everything else was broken.
If you had to walk around at night, navigating would have been terrible. Fissures 8 plus feet deep in the road, and phone lines and power lines hanging down... Not to mention the rubble. Since it wasn't necessary to move at night, we didn't. You don't need a lot a lot of light at night in a situation like this... where you are hunkered down in a building that survived hoping an aftershock doesn't take it down on top of you. The fires from Nagata burning to the ground did a good job of illuminating the night sky as there wasn't other ambient light... what with electricity being out everywhere.

I probably had some spare batteries, but it wasn't an issue. Water was an issue. In that situation, you don't use the light as a night light to feel better... you use it only when you have to. Now, if I were trying to do a medical procedure on someone in the dark... well, runtime would certainly be a bigger issue there.

For me, I never know how much juice is left in my HDS. I run a rechargeable and always have a spare primary on me. I don't care for the red-headed ******* step-child (executive) and always run a Rotary.... turning it on the dimmest setting and dialing it up to where I need it... so I really never know what level I'm on (the exception is the UV... that is always max as I look for those little desert lobsters in the yard and house). Every couple of months when the light does step down, the battery goes on the charger.

Personally, I think how long the "light shows" last is more important (not the locator beacon). This would be if you were hiking or doing some outdoor activity, broke a leg or something that made it impossible for you to crawl out, and then use it to help get located by SAR. I remember reading about a guy on a snowmobile who was found after activating this feature (not on an HDS... I think it was a Photon Freedom!).

Edit: Also, there could be other reasons for not being able to get batteries... who would have thought a year and a half ago that there would be a toilet paper run of all things. The current state of ammunition and micro-chips... other factors can lead to shortages... sometimes it is just public panic.

 

[InvisibleFrodo]

What's up with the lack of love for the executive?

 

[slumber]

What's up with the lack of love for the executive?

It's too durable. If it doesn't break, you won't be back to buy another.



[emoji13]

 

[Luciaro]

Having been in a disaster situation where I got to live 2 months without electricity and no running water... and no batteries... runtime is pretty nice to have. Great experience if you live through it... over 6k did not. I had crappy flashlights (considered good at the time... mini-Maglites). January 17, 1995... Kobe, Japan. Stayed 1 week before walking the 6 hours to the nearest running train station into Osaka... then came back a week later.
Wasn't a societal breakdown, the Japanese were very well behaved... everything else was broken.
If you had to walk around at night, navigating would have been terrible. Fissures 8 plus feet deep in the road, and phone lines and power lines hanging down... Not to mention the rubble. Since it wasn't necessary to move at night, we didn't. You don't need a lot a lot of light at night in a situation like this... where you are hunkered down in a building that survived hoping an aftershock doesn't take it down on top of you. The fires from Nagata burning to the ground did a good job of illuminating the night sky as there wasn't other ambient light... what with electricity being out everywhere.

I probably had some spare batteries, but it wasn't an issue. Water was an issue. In that situation, you don't use the light as a night light to feel better... you use it only when you have to. Now, if I were trying to do a medical procedure on someone in the dark... well, runtime would certainly be a bigger issue there.

For me, I never know how much juice is left in my HDS. I run a rechargeable and always have a spare primary on me. I don't care for the red-headed ******* step-child (executive) and always run a Rotary.... turning it on the dimmest setting and dialing it up to where I need it... so I really never know what level I'm on (the exception is the UV... that is always max as I look for those little desert lobsters in the yard and house). Every couple of months when the light does step down, the battery goes on the charger.

Personally, I think how long the "light shows" last is more important (not the locator beacon). This would be if you were hiking or doing some outdoor activity, broke a leg or something that made it impossible for you to crawl out, and then use it to help get located by SAR. I remember reading about a guy on a snowmobile who was found after activating this feature (not on an HDS... I think it was a Photon Freedom!).

Edit: Also, there could be other reasons for not being able to get batteries... who would have thought a year and a half ago that there would be a toilet paper run of all things. The current state of ammunition and micro-chips... other factors can lead to shortages... sometimes it is just public panic.

Thank you for your story

 

[scout24]

Slumberpass-

Team Clicky. :thumbsup:

I get that the Rotary can be programmed to be a Clicky, and I've owned a half dozen. Still own one that Henry and Dan were able to kick start the elf in after it being recovered after our house fire. Mrs. Scout has adopted it as her own. That will always be a permanent fixture here. I just get along with the Clicky better.

 

[Croquette]

Have both, use more my clicky than my rotary. Rotary is great, but too simple. I love looking smarter with a complicated flashlight.

 

[GoVegan]

What's up with the lack of love for the executive?

Yep, I find the Clicky insults insulting.
I own two and will probably end up buying more, but will never consider a wonky Rotary.

Team Clicky FTW.

BTW I'm really hoping the new HDS design (that's out in a couple of years from now) has the option to have either the Clicky or Rotary tailcap (i.e. all the programming in the head). That way it will keep everyone happy. Maybe then we can get rid of the "Executive" name, as it sounds like some old fat bald guy behind a desk, not the bombproof all-round capable flashlight that it is. I personally liked the old naming convention, i.e. HDS EDC 250P.

 

[dotCPF]

WOW Hogo, that's really NUTS! I can't imagine being in a situation like that. Incredible stuff. Thank you for the insight and sharing!


I've been meaning to try a Clicky but damn I love the rotary.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

I know I've posted these photos before... but here we go...

This is the 6 lane elevated (well, it was "elevated") Hanshin Expressway. I lived about 100 yards from it. Heard it come down.


A much younger Hogo carrying all his worldly possession in a seabag, stopping for a photo opportunity by one of the expressway pillars.


Still have the jacket and seabag! LOL!

Don't worry, when the new light comes out, there won't be a Clicky/Executive version. Sales of that model simply don't justify it no matter how loud some folks are on the forum.
When a Rotary dies, it becomes a Clicky. When a Clicky dies, it goes to Henry.

Just so we don't have to rehash the old debate.
Yes, an Executive is stronger than a Rotary in the sense that "something" can break on the Rotary before something breaks on the Clicky (i.e. the Rotary mechanism). IF this breaks, the Rotary is now a Clicky. I would rather skydive with a reserve chute so that if the main chute goes wonky, i'm not screwed.... rather than say having two chutes is more to go wrong.

There is nothing wrong with the clicky. It is a manual transmission. My first vehicle, and all subsequent vehicles had manual transmissions... but in my old age, I find I like an automatic more... call me lazy. Now both my vehicles are automatics... and 90% of my HDS are Rotary.

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Thanks for sharing Dan, that is nuts man. Wow.

I love them both, I have (2 still on way) 3 clickies and 4 rotaries. They all have their niche. Don't make me pick one, I know I have been 100% team clicky in the past, but the rotary has grown on me. No matter which one you have, you have in my opinion one of the most robust lights in the world. Carry a spare battery and you should be good for about any situation.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

What's up with the lack of love for the executive?

I'm not sure. Perhaps it's because the Rotary is cooler and more fun to play with? Or the fact that you can dial in exactly the amount of illumination you need which translates to more efficient use of the battery? Who knows. All other things being equal, the HDS Clicky is certainly more robust than the Rotary, although a Rotary can always be operated like a Clicky if the dial were to fail for whatever reason (as mine did recently -- turning the dial would cause the light to flash to random brightness levels instead of smoothly ramping -- so it's off to Henry for surgery).

 

[Celery]

Oh sh**.

What year was that rotary made, Mtn Man? Did it see heavy use? Did the dial feel gritty or anything before it croaked?

 

[dotCPF]

Wild! Very interesting, never considered the rotary to clicky change as a factor before but that's a very interesting point. Really drives home the automatic comparison- my only worry about driving stick is getting an injury or in a condition in which someone else needs to drive and may not be able to... damn I love my 6 speed though, I guess that means I have to try an executive!

Imagine the sound?! Man oh man.... getting t-boned was a distinct sound I will never forget, and unbelievable wallop and whack. That must have been like a mechanized giant being cut down in a swoop.... must have been a seriously haunting noise!

 

[InvisibleFrodo]

Hogo, you refer to the rotary as like having two parachutes vs the clicky having only one parachute because in the event that the rotary dial fails, the light can still perform like a clicky, although I'm curious what the rotary failure would mean for the come on setting B, which on most rotaries, I'm figuring B is the rotary position.
My question is, on the clicky, I figure about the only failure point is the button in the head to head comparison.
On the rotary, there's the button and the rotary dial to potentially fail.
But is the rotary's button any more reliable? Or is the rotary any more reliable vs the clicky? In a destructive test to the point of failure, does the rotary actually have any advantage?
In my mind, the button isn't a backup to the rotary dial, because the rotary dial won't function without the button, so the button seems to me to be the ultimate point of failure on both lights…
Why where you living in Japan at that time?

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

The button is rated for 1,000,000 clicks I believe. So if you clicked it 50 times a day 365 days a year the button should last 55 years.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Oh sh**.

What year was that rotary made, Mtn Man? Did it see heavy use? Did the dial feel gritty or anything before it croaked?

It was actually one sent in recently for a boot repair, so essentially brand new even though the tube itself is around 7-years old. It worked fine for the past couple of months, and then suddenly it didn't. I have no idea why, but I trust Henry to get it sorted out.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

In my mind, the button isn't a backup to the rotary dial, because the rotary dial won't function without the button, so the button seems to me to be the ultimate point of failure on both lights…
Why where you living in Japan at that time?

The switches are the same in both lights. Very low point of failure in those. The Rotary has a track pad and then a contact board (I'm sure folks have seen the photos of those with the little fingers). The fingers have changed 3 times over the years, and are about to get changed again... along with the contact board.
You are correct, B is the Rotary function, but that can be programmed to be anything by the end user.
In a head to head, any catastrophic failure, is in the head... not the tail. The Rotary function acting wonky or not working isn't a catastrophic failure as the light still give you... well, light and as has been said before, you now have a clicky with all the customization a clicky has. It is annoying, and shouldn't happen when a Rotary function acts wonky. It is pretty rare but it does happen. We have actually been working on new Rotary internals... this will essentially eliminate the possibility of wonky behavior (and the tactile response of the fingers going over the contact pads, which folks describe as "gritty feeling").

There are 3 advantages to the Clicky.
1. User replaceable rubber switch button.
2. Grit can't get under the start of the switch cap. I don't mean into the switch cap, but on the Rotary there is a little section grit could get under before it reaches one of the two O-rings keeping it out. This would give it a gritty feel until washed out, but wouldn't effect performance as it can't get into the workings of the tail.
3. When used under water, if one Rotates the Rotary dial, there is more likelihood of water getting in there as they are static seals... probably not a huge deal, but still, there it is.

As far as catastrophic failure goes between the two, they are pretty equal with the Executive just barely coming in front of the Rotary. The new light will change that. A lot of design changes coming. While it will still look like an HDS, it will be 2mm bigger in diameter and won't be interchangeable with older/current lights (this is necessary to accommodate 18350 batteries without driving Henry to drink... I've already been driven there, so it doesn't matter for me.). We are not planning on an executive model, though the current Executive will be offered for some time to come.

I went to Japan to teach... I didn't get any excitement in the USMC so... got more excitement than I bargained for in Japan. Lived there for a decade. Wonderful place, great people, interesting culture... my eldest is currently in college in Kyoto.