HDS Systems EDC # 18

[Hogokansatsukan]

From reading some of the HDS thread, he was never too fond of clips. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I did get to see and play with them last week but didn't get to post about them until told it was ok to do so, which I did right after getting the call. If I wasn't in Las Vegas right now, I would have posted pictures already.
Henry is a talented engineer and makes great stuff, but a marketer he is not.
i didn't know the price of the clip until it was on the web site. I know they are expensive to manufacture, and a picture would certainly help to show this. So, in a couple days when I'm back in Tucson, I'll do just that.

 

[Cerealand]

Can't wait to see it. I have a used 120 HCRI rotary coming in that may need a clip.

 

[scout24]

Thank you again for the continued update, Hogo. I'm going to tick a few people off with this I'm sure, but I've been biting my tongue. I cannot believe that we collectively do not have the discretion to not discuss price here in an open thread. Nobody would do this in the Custom Builders forums, out of respect for what they do. Vote with your wallet, but to me open discussion of the horrors of price increases, shipping costs, and parts prices have no place here out of respect for HDS. These are of custom light caliber, without doubt. They are also routinely available on the b/s/t if new pricing is out of reach. Prices are what they are, we have more decorum than this here on CPF... To name three, can you imagine these comments in a Photonfanatic, McG or Cool Fall thread? You'd be run out on a rail...

 

[AZPops]

I did get to see and play with them last week but didn't get to post about them until told it was ok to do so, which I did right after getting the call. If I wasn't in Las Vegas right now, I would have posted pictures already.
Henry is a talented engineer and makes great stuff, but a marketer he is not.
i didn't know the price of the clip until it was on the web site. I know they are expensive to manufacture, and a picture would certainly help to show this. So, in a couple days when I'm back in Tucson, I'll do just that.

Well that's no excuse. ... :shrug: ... Vegas is only a hop skip and a jump away from Tucson. Drive to Tucson, take a few photos for the guys, post them, then drive back. Easy-peasy!


J/K of course! .... :laughing:


Pops

Better put my ... :tinfoil: ... on, just in-case.

 

[Hondo]

Thank you again for the continued update, Hogo. I'm going to tick a few people off with this I'm sure, but I've been biting my tongue. I cannot believe that we collectively do not have the discretion to not discuss price here in an open thread. Nobody would do this in the Custom Builders forums, out of respect for what they do. Vote with your wallet, but to me open discussion of the horrors of price increases, shipping costs, and parts prices have no place here out of respect for HDS. These are of custom light caliber, without doubt. They are also routinely available on the b/s/t if new pricing is out of reach. Prices are what they are, we have more decorum than this here on CPF... To name three, can you imagine these comments in a Photonfanatic, McG or Cool Fall thread? You'd be run out on a rail...

+1

I'll only add that I also don't understand why we would continue to criticize Henry's marketing techniques, they have not changed for over a decade. Hogo has our backs now to fill all the voids he can, which is most of them. He'll get it done as fast as humanly possible (or slightly faster if the rum holds out).

 

[Barbarian]

Thank you again for the continued update, Hogo. I'm going to tick a few people off with this I'm sure, but I've been biting my tongue. I cannot believe that we collectively do not have the discretion to not discuss price here in an open thread. Nobody would do this in the Custom Builders forums, out of respect for what they do. Vote with your wallet, but to me open discussion of the horrors of price increases, shipping costs, and parts prices have no place here out of respect for HDS. These are of custom light caliber, without doubt. They are also routinely available on the b/s/t if new pricing is out of reach. Prices are what they are, we have more decorum than this here on CPF... To name three, can you imagine these comments in a Photonfanatic, McG or Cool Fall thread? You'd be run out on a rail...

+2

 

[Cerealand]

Can't make everybody happy. When there were delays, some were questioning why prices were not raised to have a more reliable supply chain. Now prices have gone up; wait time is dramatically shorter than what it used to be. Some are saying the prices are too high.

 

[Hondo]

The old shop sign:


Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two.

 

[sledhead]

Thank you again for the continued update, Hogo. I'm going to tick a few people off with this I'm sure, but I've been biting my tongue. I cannot believe that we collectively do not have the discretion to not discuss price here in an open thread. Nobody would do this in the Custom Builders forums, out of respect for what they do. Vote with your wallet, but to me open discussion of the horrors of price increases, shipping costs, and parts prices have no place here out of respect for HDS. These are of custom light caliber, without doubt. They are also routinely available on the b/s/t if new pricing is out of reach. Prices are what they are, we have more decorum than this here on CPF... To name three, can you imagine these comments in a Photonfanatic, McG or Cool Fall thread? You'd be run out on a rail...

+3 Well said.

I'll be ordering shortly.

 

[nbp]

+1

I'll only add that I also don't understand why we would continue to criticize Henry's marketing techniques, they have not changed for over a decade. Hogo has our backs now to fill all the voids he can, which is most of them. He'll get it done as fast as humanly possible (or slightly faster if the rum holds out).

If I were someone shopping for a flashlight and looking at an HDS and was not a CPF member and had never heard of some mystery leather guy with a funny long name (as is the case with most people) I'd want some pictures and descriptions of accessories such as clips on the site. I wouldn't want (shouldn't need) to have to find another site and sift through hundreds of posts to get that info. I don't think a few photos is a lot to ask.

 

[rioimmagina]

If I were someone shopping for a flashlight and looking at an HDS and was not a CPF member and had never heard of some mystery leather guy with a funny long name (as is the case with most people) I'd want some pictures and descriptions of accessories such as clips on the site. I wouldn't want (shouldn't need) to have to find another site and sift through hundreds of posts to get that info. I don't think a few photos is a lot to ask.

+1
HDS market IS cpf. He's still in the business, despite years of commercial malpractice, thanks to supporters here on cpf.
I recently bought my first HDS, after years of reading how great they are and how poor are marketed.
Now that I have one, I can join the chorus and say what a great light it is. But not perfect. Nor better than other high end offers.
However, I can see true love for HDS here on cpf. So, doesn't look to me unpolite or distasteful comment on pricing or behavior.
You don't see these type of comments on other builder threads because they are consistent and they deliver. As soon they no longer do it, comments arise (see Mac).

 

[Lithium466]

I rather think that military and law enforcement in general are HDS primary market. Henry listens to what is said about his lights here on CPF, but I don't think we here alone on CPF make him earn his living...

 

[rioimmagina]

I rather think that military and law enforcement in general are HDS primary market. Henry listens to what is said about his lights here on CPF, but I don't think we here alone on CPF make him earn his living...

Well, this I doubt. He could not fullfill orders for years. Lights weren't consistent in terms of quality. A lot of returns. No military division would accept that. And I believe surefire and few others have a solid reputation of mil-spec gears, and no problem to deliver. But this is IMHO.

 

[nbp]

I rather think that military and law enforcement in general are HDS primary market. Henry listens to what is said about his lights here on CPF, but I don't think we here alone on CPF make him earn his living...

This is exactly true. Hogo has commented that although Henry cares about the folks here, we are not the major purchasers of his lights.

All the more reason to make sure that CPF is not the sole source of certain info to potential customers!

 

[Lithium466]

You are right about delivery problems. I remember reading somewhere (I think testimonials on the website) comments about military divisions group-buying lights, but I may be wrong, or may have been over-interpreting all that
I still doubt CPF is his main market, it is a big community, but not that big...

edit: burned


P.S: off topic regarding HDS market, but if Henry is listening, I'd love to see the twisties come back, even with high price. No need to update driver since the good old time, just put XP-G2 in it and go!

 

[rioimmagina]

Yep, but please consider that having a Mil-Spec rating on gear is big marketing push. Anyway those are pure speculations, just some thougths in name of fair and transaparent discussion.
What I do know, from some LEO friends (Polizia and Carabinieri - these latter are a military division) and firefighters is that no one knows HDS and more generally they have no clue about flashlights. Cops and firefighters have some Varta stuff. Some goes to weapon shops and buy (privat funding of course) what they normally offer - fenix and surefire.

 

[gunga]

Hey I like HDS. Great lights. I do think there is a bit of fanatism here though. It's not an issue, I mean it is a flashlight forum!

In any case. I don't think it's rude to question a $56 clip that was snuck in with no pictures after a few years of waiting. Just because you like a product doesn't mean it's rude to question somewhat ridiculous pricing. I also really like a certain keychain light that has 2 lowish levels. I think it's great but am not convinced it's worth $225+. That's just me.

EDIT: However. I know that Hogo is doing us all a favour by releasing the news early rather than waiting for proper pics etc. I'm only talking about the pricing aspect. Hogo should be commended for letting us all know the good news! I mean I still want to know more about it!


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[scout24]

Gunga- I'm responding to you only because you were the last post... I'm not sure that two mode twisty you mention is something that I'd spend that money on either. Nor would I poo in his thread when lights were delayed again and again, or complain about his shipping or product prices. We're better than that here. All of us... Again, vote with your wallet. Myself, I am a clip guy. That said, I now own a holster for my Rotary. So far, I really like it. As I recall, the clip was a nod to demand from here, not a design imperative from the beginning in regards to the Rotary. Don't like the pricing? Don't buy one, folks. Lots of lights don't have OEM clips. Personally, the best HDS clips were brought to us by the aftermarket anyhow... HDS is a one-man show. If he does not like clips or see the need, tough cookies as they say. Everyone needs to remember it's not your company, and not a democracy. Would I like it to be different? Sure. But it's not. Period. I respect everyone's opinion, from members who just joined to those here twice as long as I am. That said, I feel the CPF vibe is to respect others, especially in their own threads. I know this isn't a sales thread, but again, we're better than this here. Send PM's. Send an email. C'mon now...

 

[gunga]

Yes. Tis true. I just like to have my cake and eat it. No disrespect intended. I'm just a bit cheap at times.




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[scout24]

Mmmm... Cake...

PS- I hope everyone gets I'm not singlig anyone out or picking on anyone or their right to have an opinion, as I obviously do. I just feel we're above this behavior here, it's one of the things that keeps CPF so nice. The decorum and class of it's members.:thumbsup: