New Milwaukee 12A lithium ion tool batteries uses 21700 cells

[idleprocess]

I don't recall seeing a 3Ah pack that wasn't a two-layer design (5s2p). The 6Ah pack presumably has 15A rated batteries in parallel, so it should behave similar to the 1.5Ah packs with 25-30A rated batteries. I don't think Ryobi is seeking the ultimate performance, especially as the entry level brand in the family.

Haven't been able to find a teardown, and Ryobi doesn't say much other than "good, better, better-er". Photographs make it look smaller than the Lithium+ 4.0Ah batteries but it's possible that they've parallel 1.5Ah strings.

With their 6Ah and 9Ah batteries apparently being 2P and 3P with 3Ah cells it's not hard to imagine the 3Ah battery as a single series.

Maybe when I'm at an actual computer I'll see if Home Depot's specs are consistent enough for a comparison.

Ryobi is surely not going to show up Milwaukee where the margins are sweeter.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

It looks like TTI may make them but they are owned by Emerson.

I have also bought 2 different Rigid drills just because of the battery warranty and in both cases when I went online to register them the Site told me these were not from Home Depot and they would not register them at all.
I of course had just bought them at Home Depot?

Home Depot is nuts about warranties on products as I had a copper pipe cutter Husky brand I took back and they no longer stocked that particular one at any store so I was told to call the manufacturer (Husky) and I went online and got the phone number from the Husky tool website and called the number and guess who answered the phone? Hello this is Home Depot....... My eyes were rolling so hard I almost had to get in a dragster to catch up to them lol. I got sent another brand new pipe cutter in the mail and the ironic thing is about a month later I was in another Home Depot store and that exact cutter was back in stock on the shelves being sold.
I had a pair of tin snips break that was my fathers and the exact model was being sold by Home Depot and I read somewhere the brand had a lifetime warranty so I took it in and one guy told me unless it says it on the package no can do so I went to look at the packages on the shelves and when I got back another guy helped me instead of him and him and a lady were both glad to swap me out the broken one for a brand new one. I honestly don't think some of these places have a iron clad policy on warranties.

 

[AVService]

The problem was with Rigid though not Home Depot.
I am sure that if I have an issue with the drills that they will just exchange them at a local store either way which is why I kept the drills despite the Rigid promised warranty scam.

I know I have Home Depot to thank for me being here probably too when they likely exchanged 100 Maglites over the years for me too!
Every time one died they would just give me a new one and this lasted for years until I saw the actual better light like we talk about here!

Amen to Home Depot!

Home Depot is nuts about warranties on products as I had a copper pipe cutter Husky brand I took back and they no longer stocked that particular one at any store so I was told to call the manufacturer (Husky) and I went online and got the phone number from the Husky tool website and called the number and guess who answered the phone? Hello this is Home Depot....... My eyes were rolling so hard I almost had to get in a dragster to catch up to them lol. I got sent another brand new pipe cutter in the mail and the ironic thing is about a month later I was in another Home Depot store and that exact cutter was back in stock on the shelves being sold.
I had a pair of tin snips break that was my fathers and the exact model was being sold by Home Depot and I read somewhere the brand had a lifetime warranty so I took it in and one guy told me unless it says it on the package no can do so I went to look at the packages on the shelves and when I got back another guy helped me instead of him and him and a lady were both glad to swap me out the broken one for a brand new one. I honestly don't think some of these places have a iron clad policy on warranties.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

The problem was with Rigid though not Home Depot.
I am sure that if I have an issue with the drills that they will just exchange them at a local store either way which is why I kept the drills despite the Rigid promised warranty scam.

I know I have Home Depot to thank for me being here probably too when they likely exchanged 100 Maglites over the years for me too!
Every time one died they would just give me a new one and this lasted for years until I saw the actual better light like we talk about here!

Amen to Home Depot!

Sooner or later profit margins triumph over products as competition pushes overpriced premium brands harder and harder greed usually rules and warranties crumble. IMO lifetime warranties should be considered 25 years or less or about 1 generation if you are lucky while anything electronic warranties are often just enough to test it out for a short time.
In the past TV sets and most electronics had 3 years warranty while premium brands had 5 years warranty but then a nice 25 inch set cost $500 and up and higher quality VCRs were $600 and up today TVs can be had for $150 and blu-ray players for $50 both of which have 1 year warranty and often limits of 90 days on returns to stores requiring you to send them back to the manufacturer at your cost unless you pay for an extended warranty and more and more you almost need the extra 1-2 years addition warranty as manufacturers make products less robust for longevity. Typically having to deal with local stores for warranty is the best because often manufacturers will do the refurbished swap when your product breaks on you and this means an increased chance of rebreaking often. I don't like refurbished stuff as the longevity of it often is HALF of the original new product and companies that sell products often make it so you only get one swap before the warranty conks out on you.
Anyway back to the thread even though I'm somewhat impressed by these uber batteries I find the increasing size disconcerting as I've used larger rotary hammer drills and other hand tools where the extra weight and bulk would be a huge negative if you are drilling 100 holes in a concrete ceiling a 12Ah battery may run tons longer but your arm will soon fail on you trying to hold it above your head and push up through the metal decking. These batteries would probably be more suited for table saws and other tools that you don't have to wield.

 

[AVService]

I sell TVs,we don't need to go there.

I agree I am using the Milwaukee 5ah batteries in an 18v rotary hammer and it feels like a feather compared to my corded Hilti but then it also does not remotely do what the Hilti can either.
Picking the right tool for the job is as important as the right battery for the tool.

If I get one of the Mongo batteries it will be for a Milwaukee light and because I found it cheap on Craigslist too!

Sooner or later profit margins triumph over products as competition pushes overpriced premium brands harder and harder greed usually rules and warranties crumble. IMO lifetime warranties should be considered 25 years or less or about 1 generation if you are lucky while anything electronic warranties are often just enough to test it out for a short time.
In the past TV sets and most electronics had 3 years warranty while premium brands had 5 years warranty but then a nice 25 inch set cost $500 and up and higher quality VCRs were $600 and up today TVs can be had for $150 and blu-ray players for $50 both of which have 1 year warranty and often limits of 90 days on returns to stores requiring you to send them back to the manufacturer at your cost unless you pay for an extended warranty and more and more you almost need the extra 1-2 years addition warranty as manufacturers make products less robust for longevity. Typically having to deal with local stores for warranty is the best because often manufacturers will do the refurbished swap when your product breaks on you and this means an increased chance of rebreaking often. I don't like refurbished stuff as the longevity of it often is HALF of the original new product and companies that sell products often make it so you only get one swap before the warranty conks out on you.
Anyway back to the thread even though I'm somewhat impressed by these uber batteries I find the increasing size disconcerting as I've used larger rotary hammer drills and other hand tools where the extra weight and bulk would be a huge negative if you are drilling 100 holes in a concrete ceiling a 12Ah battery may run tons longer but your arm will soon fail on you trying to hold it above your head and push up through the metal decking. These batteries would probably be more suited for table saws and other tools that you don't have to wield.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I sell TVs,we don't need to go there.

I agree I am using the Milwaukee 5ah batteries in an 18v rotary hammer and it feels like a feather compared to my corded Hilti but then it also does not remotely do what the Hilti can either.
Picking the right tool for the job is as important as the right battery for the tool.

If I get one of the Mongo batteries it will be for a Milwaukee light and because I found it cheap on Craigslist too!

OSHA now requires us to use special vacuum attachments for drilling into concrete which add weight and are spring loaded to hold the vacuum attachment around the drill bit close to the surface so you have that added resistance and weight to. I've the larger Dewalt rotary hammers and a Makita one with the double layer 18650 cell packs and that monster 12A Milwaukee would probably have my arm worn out after a few hours of holding it again the ceiling pushing in it.

 

[SubLGT]

Bosch has a (new?) 8Ah 18V 1600w battery pack made up of ten 21700 cells in a double layer. The pack weighs 2.14lb


https://bosch-activities.com/core18v-8-0ah-features

 

[Lynx_Arc]

beginning to look like 2x5x21700 is the new sweet spot for tool batteries as far as capacity but 2 lbs is pretty hefty to add to the weight of a tool. I just measured the weight of my cheapo 4Ah Porter Cable battery pack.... 22 oz so the 21700 batteries are about 2/3 of a lb more in weight.

 

[orbital]

+

Recently ordered some aftermarket 4.5Ah 20V battery packs for my DeWalt tools. They list using quality 21700 cells a couple if times,
$29

They're only slightly wider/taller than the 2.0Ah units, so I figured I'd give it a go.
Thinking about it last night, there must be five 21700s' in that pack.

Even if I take them all apart, that's only $6 per 21700,, where else can I get a 21700 for $6??

 

[jabe1]

techdirectclub.com. 3 Tesla model 3 21700 cells for $11.99 shipped.

Even if I take them all apart, that's only $6 per 21700,, where else can I get a 21700 for $6??

 

[orbital]

+

So even though delayed by a day, I got my 21700 based battery packs today.
The voltage level button showed 3 lights, so full charge.

I tested each w/ multimeter:
1. 19.98V
2. 19.95V

They fit cleanly in DeWalt tools & work properly.

--
'hopefully' the 21700s' in these packs are new

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Probably decent batteries but they may be overrated on Ah. I bought a cheap 4A 20v Battery for my Porter Cable tools and it lasted a lot longer than the 1.5Ah batteries I was using almost 3 times as long but since it was 2 layers instead of 1 I'm thinking it could just be a 3Ah battery. I'm not sure of the smallest Ah size of 21700 batteries though. Even if it is only 3Ah still a bargain as the 3Ah Dewalt 21700 pack goes for about $50 on Ebay and over $120 on Amazon I think. I have both 3, 6, and 8Ah 21700 Dewalt batteries (not 60v Flex). They make a 10A non Flex battery too.

 

[orbital]

+

These are 21700 based also: https://www.dewalt.com/products/acc...es/20v-max-compact-4ah-battery-2pack/dcb240-2

 

[Lynx_Arc]

+

These are 21700 based also: https://www.dewalt.com/products/acc...es/20v-max-compact-4ah-battery-2pack/dcb240-2

Yes, but I haven't come across a good deal on those yet. I paid around $30 each for 2-3Ah compact dewalt 20v batteries DCB230.
The dual layer 21700 batteries get rather bulky and the triple layer 21700 batteries (I think flexvolt 9 and 12Ah) are even more bulky to the point that you may be better off using smaller batteries and changing them out more often.
I like the 2A 18650 and the 3A 21700 batteries for the compactness from there the larger batteries for hte power. I doubt I will invest in 2 layer batteries any time soon.

 

[orbital]

+

Some good info on Milwaukee packs for 18650 or 21700 used https://www.protoolreviews.com/milwaukee-m18-batteries-compared/

..also helpful charger info regarding Amps ect.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

+

Some good info on Milwaukee packs for 18650 or 21700 used https://www.protoolreviews.com/milwaukee-m18-batteries-compared/

..also helpful charger info regarding Amps ect.

I have Dewalt tools and their batteries are almost identical with the exception of 10A 21700 batteries which I don't see listed but likely may exist in Milwaukees tools. Dewalt also has an 8A battery charger with fan that I don't see a Milwaukee offering.
With a 10A Dewalt battery I think it has 20 5A 21700s if that were true I can see a 15x21700 15Ah battery in the works in the future.

 

[orbital]

+

Just a bit more battery geekness discussion at the bottom of this page : https://toolguyd.com/dewalt-20v-8ah-cordless-power-tool-battery-dcb208/
..goes so far as describing the lettering for DeWalt packs using 20700 vs 21700 (same Ah)

Also, high amps vs high Ah



From toolguyd.com ~ The DCB206 with the 21700 cells will say "6Ah" in large white lettering on its side sticker, the 20700 based battery will say "6.0Ah" in smaller yellow lettering