Petzl NAO - high-tech headlamp review.

[ZoKoNAO]

5418
Thank you! A little bit late, but - thanx

 

[KovacsGy]

Hi Szemhazai and all guys on the forum I am also would like to modify the battery compartment, so that it can be used with unprotected 18650 batteries, with easy replace. My question would be additionally to the original modification post: did you used the protection circuit salvaged from the Petzl battery?I saw that the battery holder was soldered directly to the board, by wires, but it is not clear if you used the protection circuit or nor.Or there wasnt any space for that?I plan to put a standard 18650 holder into the pack, with the protection circuit from the original Petzl battery - this would mean I wont need to bother with the thermistor, connector, etc. Do you see any flaws with this?Thanks in advance!

 

[Szemhazai]

Kovacs, welcome to CPF :welcome:

Currently, in my opinion, the best option* is to remove whole electronics from the battery pack and connect battery holder directly to the headlamp wires - the head also have the protection circuit based on voltage control (it's quite precisely set for 3,0V and it's switching to the rescue mode so you can use even unprotected cells). The benefit of this solution is that the lamp will use the whole capacity of the cell that you are using - instead of "calculated capacity" used by Petzl's electronics.

 

[KovacsGy]

Thanks for the fast reply! :twothumbs
So you suggest to connect directly the 18650 battery holder (placed into the emptied Nao pack). Do you have a description about that special connector pins which connect the pack to the head? Maybe if that connector can have an order number any 3.7V battery pack can be connected to the head unit?
For me it is not recommended to place the batteries on my head.

 

[KovacsGy]

For me it is not recommended to place the batteries on my head.

I mean it is not neccessary

 

[_Rotor]

Currently, in my opinion, the best option* is to remove whole electronics from the battery pack and connect battery holder directly to the headlamp wires - the head also have the protection circuit based on voltage control (it's quite precisely set for 3,0V and it's switching to the rescue mode so you can use even unprotected cells). The benefit of this solution is that the lamp will use the whole capacity of the cell that you are using - instead of "calculated capacity" used by Petzl's electronics.

Hi Szemhazai. I have followed your publications and the your last opinion surprised me. Can you explain please what will happened with the custom (OS by Petzl) profiles if you chose this new approach (to remove whole electronics from the battery pack). Actually I'm not sure where the profile information is contained, but if it is in the battery pack I cannot understand how this approach will work at all?
What is the disadvantage of the "thermistor mode" (except the obvious that the battery have to be replace more frequent)?
Best Regards _Rotor

 

[Szemhazai]

Hi Rotor,

The whole "OS thing" is in the head - in the battery compartment is only the battery charging unit and communication system. So you can always use another battery with the electronics to modify OS settings - most of the people did not modify default setting ever.

Current OS in the battery pack will calculate the capacity of the battery by itself - so instead 3400mAh you will have usable 2300/2600mAh, also in case the OS switch itself to "safe mode" you can replace the cell for the new one but it will stay in "safe mode" until you have connect it to the USB power source.

 

[_Rotor]

Hi Szemhazai.
Thank you for your detailed and clear answer. I like the Petzl's lamps but I hate their practice to make their users hostages via their batteries. I have ordered today a Zebralight flashlight from the online shop located in Netherlands (I am a new here and I am not sure if mentioning of the actual name is a good idea). During my browsing between the shop products, I noticed two 18650 batteries with the well-known three wires and connector (Molex 5264-3P). When I took a close look I found that the batteries was described as "Enerpower 3400mAh li-ion battery for Petzl Nao" for €14.95 and the 3500mAh version for €15.95
I am not familiar with this German brand but it seems reputable. This "discovery" lead me to few questions: Is the Enerpower the Petzl's battery supplier and why Enerpower sells battery with this capacity if the Nao electronics is tightened to significant less capacity…
--- Edit ---
Obviously the Enerpower is just assembler (They have few products as power banks and e-bike batteries). Also they assemble batteries for few other popular lamps... I don't believe that they are a Petzl's supplier , but the question about the capacity is still actual and may be I have to ask them

 

[Szemhazai]

No, those Enerpower are simply generic cell replacements for NAO - but there is only one "but" - the capacity that can be used is reduced by the software inside the battery pack.

 

[hongchai90]

More juice

 

[Genzod]

Great review! I bought a Nao back in mid Oct and love it. Sure it has it's flaws (namely the fog issue discussed above and also when breathing), but that stuff is expected from a first generation product. I'm not quite sure how Petzl and others will rectify the reactive/fog issue, but it sure would be nice if the sensor could detect that you are in a foggy/humid environment, and compensate for it. Things to look forward to I guess..

One line in their firmware that tests and rejects distance adjustments of less than half a meter will solve breathing issues. But haven't they figured that out by now? I think you can access the headlamp software, right? So if that's the case, Petzl could make the change and have a firmware update for their customers available on line in a matter of no time at all.

If you want to read a map, just go manual. I would think auto adjustments are preferred for when you're moving anyway.

As for fog, I'd just go manual when that happens. Headlamps are pretty pointless in the fog. You want to shoot from the hip with a narrow beam or minimized spill when that happens.

But I don't know much about this headlamp, so shoot me. I tried. :laughing:

 

[sohl]

HI

I have the first mod of the nao and are thinking of getting the new nao+. But after reading this thread I starting to lean to ask for help to mod it with a new stronger led and maybe get away a little cheaper.

is someone here on candlepower willing to help me mod it with a newer stronger (warmer) led?

 

[Szemhazai]

Sohl - it can be done, but I don't know if the shipping rates and delivery time will not kill the whole idea.
International priority mail PL-SE ~10 Euro, delivery time about 2 weeks.

 

[sohl]

Sohl - it can be done, but I don't know if the shipping rates and delivery time will not kill the whole idea.
International priority mail PL-SE ~10 Euro, delivery time about 2 weeks.

Pm sent

 

[sunebralla]

Hi there!

FYI - today I tried the NAO+ battery in my NAO1 headlamp. It seems to work just fine. The petzl compatibility chart states that they are not compatible but it does work. The NAO1 seems to behave normal. This is the compatibility chart in pdf format from petzl: https://www.petzl.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/068w0000002tVlpAAE

The battery connector on the NAO+ differs a small measure from the original NAO. The center piece around the four pins on the NAO battery is oval while on the NAO+ it is more square shaped. This makes it impossible to connect the NAO battery to the NAO+ but it works the other way around. I wonder if the NAO battery would work in the NAO+ if the connector is modified (although of course with some functional impairment). Has anyone tried that?

Greetings

.s

 

[sunebralla]

Oh how annoying...

The mypetzl app for the NAO+ is a disaster. There are bugs that affect the user profiles in such a way that they do not work as intended when uploaded to the lamp. For example, if you define three different levels and upload them, the lamp only have two levels. Another bug is that the levels sometimes disappear from the app main screen and you have to go back and forth to make them visible again. Be aware of that the lamp flickers a couple of times when turned off so wait a while before you look directly into it or you will be temporarily blinded.

The app in itself is unintuitive and lacks any kind of advanced options. There is no way a user may control the individual beams as in OS by Petzl. The only option is to select one of five pre-defined profiles and pull on a slider controlling the maximum reach. There is no information on how the individual beams are set in the different profiles. That is something you will have to find out for yourself by using the lamp. You may only define a maximum of three reactive levels per profile. The whole app experience feels fit for a toy lamp. Actually, the concept of using a smartphone app to control the lamp does not make good sense for any product with a life span of more than a year or two. My own experience tells me these apps gets pulled from appstore sooner or later and there is no way you will be able to reinstall them. If Petzl decide to replace the NAO+ within a few years, do you really think that the app will still be available? You may be sitting there with an expensive lamp you no longer have any means of controlling.

I have been really satisfied with the NAO1 I have had since 2012. Unfortunately the NAO+ does not meet my expectations. It is less advanced and riddled with bugs. Therefore I decided to return it and get the NAO3 lamp instead. It seemed perfect but is very hard to find. Alas though! The guy on Petzl support tells me that the NAO3 does not work with OS by Petzl. In fact there seem to be no way at all to customize the NAO3.

Maybe I will look into the LED hack possibilities but SMD LEDs are notoriously hard to change.

Regards

.s

 

[Szemhazai]

I've done some modding on NAO 2 - the old leds (I don't know what that was but it was no Cree) were replaced with Samsung LH351C 5000K CRI 90+. I must say that there is no huge difference on the photos, but with naked aye it's huge if you compare those side by side. Despite the fact that modded nao have over 30% more light I would say that old one looks brighter :thinking:, maybe because our eyes are more sensitive to blue than red.

The wall is beige - left Samung 351C / right generic led

Color comparison - top generic led / bottom samsung.

Some measurement's from integrating sphere .

Constant LOW

Constant HIGH

CRI diagram from Constant LOW.

 

[harlansmart]

chasm22,

Pretty useless of PETZL, yeah we noted this too (see image beneath) but weren't able to find a way to source any.

Meantime have reached out to Szemhazai in the hope he might mod another NAO Battery pack so we can finally use generic Panasonic/Sanyo 3500mAh 18650's.

Big 'UPZ' to Szemhazai way over in Poland too for his work & testing on a way around and to combat the PETZL PREDATION :thumbsup:

Hi guys,

Petzl states in the literature that the battery alone(without the plastic container) is available but I haven't seen it sold anywhere except when packaged as part of the expensive pack. The literature says to reference part E36A20.

chasm22

 

[gingerneil]

New user.. digging up an old thread - please go easy!
I have just ordered a 3450mah replacement for my original Nao *link removed
I am sure I'll be able to charge this once it fitted to the Nao battery housing, but it would be great to be able to charge both the old and new batteries at the same time. Is there a charger available (ideally USB or 12V car fitting) that can take one of these batteries ? The obviously dont go in standard charger due to the electronics/connector.

 

[gingerneil]

New user.. digging up an old thread - please go easy!
I have just ordered a 3450mah replacement for my original Nao *link removed
I am sure I'll be able to charge this once it fitted to the Nao battery housing, but it would be great to be able to charge both the old and new batteries at the same time. Is there a charger available (ideally USB or 12V car fitting) that can take one of these batteries ? The obviously dont go in standard charger due to the electronics/connector.

I have now installed this and it seems to work great. However, the lamp goes into 'reserve mode' even when there appears to be 2 bars of power left. Is this an issue with the firmware reading the battery level of the improved cell ? Is there anything that can be done to fix this ? Makes it a little pointless upgrading the battery!