Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries? (for lights and more)
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Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Wow N8N, you really surprise me!
Yeah, I have a lamp oil lantern that I fill with citronella oil that I use outside on the concrete patio, it gives light, and more importantly keeps the bugs away, but NO... that doesn't come in the house.
lol... are you trolling for flames? Pun intended.
I remember hearing the story of Mrs. O'Leary's cow kicking over an oil lantern and causing the Great Chicago Fire!
Wow N8N, you really surprise me!
Yeah, I have a lamp oil lantern that I fill with citronella oil that I use outside on the concrete patio, it gives light, and more importantly keeps the bugs away, but NO... that doesn't come in the house.
lol... are you trolling for flames? Pun intended.
I remember hearing the story of Mrs. O'Leary's cow kicking over an oil lantern and causing the Great Chicago Fire!
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
The groovy thing about the Super is that the High is brighter while the low is the same output as the low on the Original, which makes it the best of both worlds in an emergency. I like the Supers.
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Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
I have used kerosene lanterns to great effect in decades past but that was in colder climates than I live now. I wouldn't consider them for a grid down situation in the sub-tropics unless it was winter and even then I would have the same reservations I have with candles...
Don't get me wrong, they may both be used safely if common sense is employed -- but common sense doesn't seem to be so common in the 21st century...
I have used kerosene lanterns to great effect in decades past but that was in colder climates than I live now. I wouldn't consider them for a grid down situation in the sub-tropics unless it was winter and even then I would have the same reservations I have with candles...
Don't get me wrong, they may both be used safely if common sense is employed -- but common sense doesn't seem to be so common in the 21st century...
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Yes, I grew up in PA and it seems like the usual cause of power going out was a winter storm... my parents still heat with wood so I guess I'm more comfortable than most with stuff being on fire inside the house.
Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 4
Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 4
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
We lost power for 4 hrs earlier this year (the longest we've lost power in 6 years...) and i put my TK41 in the living room on High (335 lumens, 7hrs runtime) and it lit up our house very brightly. I left a small SC51 in the bathroom area on low to provide some dim lighting down that end of the house for safety. My family just read books & played ipad etc keeping busy. I went for a walk around the street which is on a ridge so i can see other houses some distance away. Most houses were either pitch black or there was a faint flickering of candles. Occasionally there would be a dim yellow incandescent or dim angry blue cheap led flashlight dart about in some houses. All my neighbours had candles burning and in some cases (my next door neighbour) about 5+ candles burning, and it was still very dim in their house. This just reinforced to me that a decent long lasting modern LED flashlight is the safest, brightest way to light up the house. You just have to be prepared with batteries.
cheers
We lost power for 4 hrs earlier this year (the longest we've lost power in 6 years...) and i put my TK41 in the living room on High (335 lumens, 7hrs runtime) and it lit up our house very brightly. I left a small SC51 in the bathroom area on low to provide some dim lighting down that end of the house for safety. My family just read books & played ipad etc keeping busy. I went for a walk around the street which is on a ridge so i can see other houses some distance away. Most houses were either pitch black or there was a faint flickering of candles. Occasionally there would be a dim yellow incandescent or dim angry blue cheap led flashlight dart about in some houses. All my neighbours had candles burning and in some cases (my next door neighbour) about 5+ candles burning, and it was still very dim in their house. This just reinforced to me that a decent long lasting modern LED flashlight is the safest, brightest way to light up the house. You just have to be prepared with batteries.
cheers
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
I am currently without power for two hours. Got the EA8 on ceiling bounce for room illumination and the TK41 on hand for room to room movement. Also have a v11r and a quark AA on hand as back ups. Failing that I have another 100 or so to serve if the need arises.
I am currently without power for two hours. Got the EA8 on ceiling bounce for room illumination and the TK41 on hand for room to room movement. Also have a v11r and a quark AA on hand as back ups. Failing that I have another 100 or so to serve if the need arises.
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Yes, we used to use kerosene lanterns during power outages, growing up. They worked fine, and we never burned the house down.
I don't think people lack common sense nowadays (any more than they used to). I think we're just paranoid about everything now, and consider safety to trump everything. Look at how we wrap our kids in bubbles in order to put them in the car. When I was growing up, nobody even wore seat belts, and as kids we usually just laid down in the back of the station wagon with out feet hanging out the back window. Do that today, and it would get you arrested.
Yes, we used to use kerosene lanterns during power outages, growing up. They worked fine, and we never burned the house down.
I don't think people lack common sense nowadays (any more than they used to). I think we're just paranoid about everything now, and consider safety to trump everything. Look at how we wrap our kids in bubbles in order to put them in the car. When I was growing up, nobody even wore seat belts, and as kids we usually just laid down in the back of the station wagon with out feet hanging out the back window. Do that today, and it would get you arrested.
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Yeah, we do seem to be over-protective, until we see a kid get hit in the chest by a baseball and die, or hear that a neighbor's 12 y/o son was ejected from the passenger seat of their pick up and got killed in an otherwise survivable crash. Personally I was opposed to seat-belt laws when they first came out. I thought that education was the way to go. I proposed, to my state representative, that he sponsor a bill, that each time a person buys a vehicle that he view an educational video on driver's safety, and seat belt use. When you see depictions of kids being ejected through the rear window of a station wagon (because they didn't have seat-belts on) in rear end crashes, and then get run over by the striking vehicle - That makes an impression!
Yeah, I'm old enough to remember that as a kid we did a fair amount of camping, and we used the "white gas" pump up Coleman style 2 mantle lanterns. I don't know if they have been outlawed but I know that scout camps don't allow them anymore. I do recall a couple of "exciting" instances of gasoline and fire.
Still, when I am in Walmart or K-mart and see a two mantle propane lantern for less than $20 I hesitate and consider picking one up. I like being "prepared" and flexible. Even if I did get one, I would only use it out-doors.
Yeah, we do seem to be over-protective, until we see a kid get hit in the chest by a baseball and die, or hear that a neighbor's 12 y/o son was ejected from the passenger seat of their pick up and got killed in an otherwise survivable crash. Personally I was opposed to seat-belt laws when they first came out. I thought that education was the way to go. I proposed, to my state representative, that he sponsor a bill, that each time a person buys a vehicle that he view an educational video on driver's safety, and seat belt use. When you see depictions of kids being ejected through the rear window of a station wagon (because they didn't have seat-belts on) in rear end crashes, and then get run over by the striking vehicle - That makes an impression!
Yeah, I'm old enough to remember that as a kid we did a fair amount of camping, and we used the "white gas" pump up Coleman style 2 mantle lanterns. I don't know if they have been outlawed but I know that scout camps don't allow them anymore. I do recall a couple of "exciting" instances of gasoline and fire.
Still, when I am in Walmart or K-mart and see a two mantle propane lantern for less than $20 I hesitate and consider picking one up. I like being "prepared" and flexible. Even if I did get one, I would only use it out-doors.
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Lighting with white gas or candles was very common when I was a kid in the 50s. The big difference between now and then is that we did not have to learn everything about it during an emergency. That is a key point. Like never driving a stick shift many today have never used these lighting devices before. In that sense knowledge about candles and white gas lanterns is far less common today than it was sixty years ago. These devices were not only used for camping but also fishing and other nightly activities where I grew up. People were very familiar with their use and their hazards.
I think its reasonable to assume that anyone who has forced themselves into the fall back position of using an open flame for lighting during an emergency probably has not used the technology as much as people did in the past -- and even in the past when people had more experience some of them still burnt their houses down even when the fire department was up and running.
Lighting with white gas or candles was very common when I was a kid in the 50s. The big difference between now and then is that we did not have to learn everything about it during an emergency. That is a key point. Like never driving a stick shift many today have never used these lighting devices before. In that sense knowledge about candles and white gas lanterns is far less common today than it was sixty years ago. These devices were not only used for camping but also fishing and other nightly activities where I grew up. People were very familiar with their use and their hazards.
I think its reasonable to assume that anyone who has forced themselves into the fall back position of using an open flame for lighting during an emergency probably has not used the technology as much as people did in the past -- and even in the past when people had more experience some of them still burnt their houses down even when the fire department was up and running.
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Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
I'm going to change my answer here - I had previously posted I would use my Foursevens mini123 and Surefire U2, but I just got a M61LLL 219 and put it in my yellow G2 - this is now my go to emergency light.
I'm going to change my answer here - I had previously posted I would use my Foursevens mini123 and Surefire U2, but I just got a M61LLL 219 and put it in my yellow G2 - this is now my go to emergency light.
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
This is the same thing I said several posts back. People are a lot less used to using these items these days and typical safety practices that everyone who regularly used kerosene and other flame type lanterns aren't common practice these days. And as we've both stated, something that needs to be emphasized is that even when usage of those items was far more common, fires caused by accidents or inappropriate usage of them still occurred with uncomfortable frequency.
The biggest change here is that back then, there really were no other options that put out that much light for that long. Heck, even 10-15 years ago, there really weren't many other options that put out as much light for equivalent runtimes. 10 years ago, LEDs were still a new thing. Getting 100 lumens out of one wasn't too common, and those that did would drain a maximum capacity 18650 in 60 minutes. We all know how quickly incandescent options ate batteries.
These days, we have SO many safe electrical options available that will run for far longer than those flame type lanterns AND are MUCH safer. With the exception of folks who are destitute, these options aren't exactly bank breaking expensive (eg. all the reasonably priced battery operated LED lanterns).
My Eagletac G25C2-mkII will run for 12-14 hours at ~125lm on a 3400mAh 18650. The TM26 will run even longer on 4x18650's in the 95lm mode. For folks who want to be even safer, there are numerous AA or other NiMH powered options available with great runtime when you don't need the higher output the 18650 lights are capable of (and 100lm is a lot of light when everything's completely dark).
Max
Precisely.
This is the same thing I said several posts back. People are a lot less used to using these items these days and typical safety practices that everyone who regularly used kerosene and other flame type lanterns aren't common practice these days. And as we've both stated, something that needs to be emphasized is that even when usage of those items was far more common, fires caused by accidents or inappropriate usage of them still occurred with uncomfortable frequency.
The biggest change here is that back then, there really were no other options that put out that much light for that long. Heck, even 10-15 years ago, there really weren't many other options that put out as much light for equivalent runtimes. 10 years ago, LEDs were still a new thing. Getting 100 lumens out of one wasn't too common, and those that did would drain a maximum capacity 18650 in 60 minutes. We all know how quickly incandescent options ate batteries.
These days, we have SO many safe electrical options available that will run for far longer than those flame type lanterns AND are MUCH safer. With the exception of folks who are destitute, these options aren't exactly bank breaking expensive (eg. all the reasonably priced battery operated LED lanterns).
My Eagletac G25C2-mkII will run for 12-14 hours at ~125lm on a 3400mAh 18650. The TM26 will run even longer on 4x18650's in the 95lm mode. For folks who want to be even safer, there are numerous AA or other NiMH powered options available with great runtime when you don't need the higher output the 18650 lights are capable of (and 100lm is a lot of light when everything's completely dark).
Max
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Recently I saw a 10 inch 12 volt fan for $20. IIRC the power supply was rated at 12 volt 1 amp.
So if you put 3-4 18650's in series, I guess you would get 3-4 hours run time.
How long would something like this run on a car battery? Not a deep cycle marine battery.
Someone also mentioned using inverters.
I wonder... how long would a 110v 20 inch box fan run on a car battery, hooked to an inverter?
I have a generator. I'm not sure if it can power my central AC unit. I THINK it can, but it won't be able to do it and the two refrigerators. I also have a small window AC unit that I can put in one room and close the room off.
Recently I saw a 10 inch 12 volt fan for $20. IIRC the power supply was rated at 12 volt 1 amp.
So if you put 3-4 18650's in series, I guess you would get 3-4 hours run time.
How long would something like this run on a car battery? Not a deep cycle marine battery.
Someone also mentioned using inverters.
I wonder... how long would a 110v 20 inch box fan run on a car battery, hooked to an inverter?
creyc
Enlightened
If you use an average size ~70-80AH car battery and don't let it go below around 50% (since it's not a marine/deep cycle), after inverter losses you should get around 2 hours runtime on a roughly 200 watt 20" box fan.
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Oooo... ouch!!!
That is very disappointing.
I just tested a 5.5 inch 12 volt oscillating fan that I bought for my camper. It is certainly much smaller, but it only draws 0.55 amps @ 12 volts.
That converts to 6.6 watts, and with your numbers for an average car battery depleted to 50% (420 watt hours) I should get about 63 hours.
Now, that's some useable run-time. Even a small fan coupled with misting or a damp towel can make miserable, bearable.
Oooo... ouch!!!
That is very disappointing.
I just tested a 5.5 inch 12 volt oscillating fan that I bought for my camper. It is certainly much smaller, but it only draws 0.55 amps @ 12 volts.
That converts to 6.6 watts, and with your numbers for an average car battery depleted to 50% (420 watt hours) I should get about 63 hours.
Now, that's some useable run-time. Even a small fan coupled with misting or a damp towel can make miserable, bearable.
zespectre
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
the other problem with running car battery->inverter->standard house fan is that the fan is going to run a little slow and it may seriously shorten the motor life due to the wave form of the A/C coming from the inverter.
I've tested this sort of thing in the past and I have two fans that work fine and one that hums really loud and runs at about half speed (regular box fans). So on the whole I would say get the 12 volt stuff for emergencies.
the other problem with running car battery->inverter->standard house fan is that the fan is going to run a little slow and it may seriously shorten the motor life due to the wave form of the A/C coming from the inverter.
I've tested this sort of thing in the past and I have two fans that work fine and one that hums really loud and runs at about half speed (regular box fans). So on the whole I would say get the 12 volt stuff for emergencies.
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
Very interesting thread here !
lovecpf
Just wanna' state, as a point of reference . . . .
A standard Candle is said to produce about 13 Lumens.
( Gives us a baseline to work with here )
:candle:
_
Very interesting thread here !
lovecpf
Just wanna' state, as a point of reference . . . .
A standard Candle is said to produce about 13 Lumens.
( Gives us a baseline to work with here )
:candle:
_
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
To figure out the best way to run a fan off a 12v battery one should study two groups: people with sailboats and people who use teardrop trailers for recreation.
These groups are fascinating to me because they have opted into very small systems, so their solutions to problems are interesting and often economical.
The teardrop trailer folks often use 12v fans from computers connected to deep cycle batteries, charge controllers, and small PV panels to move enough air to cool them while they sleep. Instead of using wasteful rheostats they tend to change the number of fans turned on to vary the output.
Check out these guys at the Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers Forum:
http://www.tnttt.com/
They have a subforum called Electrical Secrets that has helped me a great deal on small solar and more generalized electrical prepper projects. Their take on fans is interesteng.
That's where I got turned on to HandyBob's Blog:
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/
Opinions differ on HandyBob but I found his advice on PV to be very down to Earth and I ended up reading the whole site.
I've also looked into a nautiical solution to the fan problem that is very simple and is appropriate for some preppers. Some years ago I found a kit for people who live on sailboats. Since electricity as a scarce commodity on a sailboat this kit just consisted of three things that were very well matched to each other. There was a small PV panel with a built in charge controller, a 12v deep cycle battery (probably an AGM SLA) and a small fan with a very efficient 12v motor. The panel was just big enough to charge the battery during the daytime and the battery was of sufficient capacity to power the carefully chosen fan all night long so you could get some sleep.
Unfortunately I cannot source the above kit at this time. On the positive side, I think this type of fan project is far more doable today than it was years ago when I first looked into it. AGM SLA 12v batteries for wheelchairs, scooters and bicycles are everywhere and may be had at reasonable cost in many, many form factors and capacities. PV panels are cheaper, too.
If you bone up on the sites linked above you should be able to cobble something together without it costing an arm and a leg.
To figure out the best way to run a fan off a 12v battery one should study two groups: people with sailboats and people who use teardrop trailers for recreation.
These groups are fascinating to me because they have opted into very small systems, so their solutions to problems are interesting and often economical.
The teardrop trailer folks often use 12v fans from computers connected to deep cycle batteries, charge controllers, and small PV panels to move enough air to cool them while they sleep. Instead of using wasteful rheostats they tend to change the number of fans turned on to vary the output.
Check out these guys at the Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers Forum:
http://www.tnttt.com/
They have a subforum called Electrical Secrets that has helped me a great deal on small solar and more generalized electrical prepper projects. Their take on fans is interesteng.
That's where I got turned on to HandyBob's Blog:
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/
Opinions differ on HandyBob but I found his advice on PV to be very down to Earth and I ended up reading the whole site.
I've also looked into a nautiical solution to the fan problem that is very simple and is appropriate for some preppers. Some years ago I found a kit for people who live on sailboats. Since electricity as a scarce commodity on a sailboat this kit just consisted of three things that were very well matched to each other. There was a small PV panel with a built in charge controller, a 12v deep cycle battery (probably an AGM SLA) and a small fan with a very efficient 12v motor. The panel was just big enough to charge the battery during the daytime and the battery was of sufficient capacity to power the carefully chosen fan all night long so you could get some sleep.
Unfortunately I cannot source the above kit at this time. On the positive side, I think this type of fan project is far more doable today than it was years ago when I first looked into it. AGM SLA 12v batteries for wheelchairs, scooters and bicycles are everywhere and may be had at reasonable cost in many, many form factors and capacities. PV panels are cheaper, too.
If you bone up on the sites linked above you should be able to cobble something together without it costing an arm and a leg.
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scout24
Flashaholic
Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
In response to the thread title: You can have too many lumens, but never too many batteries... Your best friend for figuring out electrical draw is a Kill-A-Watt meter. Plugged in between your load and the power source, you get a running consumption rate. Invaluable when trying to size components in an emergency system. The amp rating stickers are not always accurate on appliances, etc. Sub- Cool link to the teardrop site! Thanks.
In response to the thread title: You can have too many lumens, but never too many batteries...
Your best friend for figuring out electrical draw is a Kill-A-Watt meter. Plugged in between your load and the power source, you get a running consumption rate. Invaluable when trying to size components in an emergency system. The amp rating stickers are not always accurate on appliances, etc. Sub- Cool link to the teardrop site! Thanks.Re: Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries?
The WUP can log and also measures maximum current draw, minimum current draw, max and min voltages and the duty cycle of the attached item among many other things. It can show maximum inrush current for a device's turn on (will tell you if a particular generator can provide enough power to turn on a device like a sump pump or a/c or refrigerator or electric motor from a fan or anything else).
You can use it to see how much power a Nitecore Intellicharger I4 draws when on 120v. In a power outage situation, it's more efficient to run items like the I4 off 12v power.
Max
The Kill A Watt is great especially because it's cheap, but if folks are interested in checking the draw on items like small refrigerators, medical respirators and such, I'd advise a step up to a Watts Up Pro.In response to the thread title: You can have too many lumens, but never too many batteries...
The WUP can log and also measures maximum current draw, minimum current draw, max and min voltages and the duty cycle of the attached item among many other things. It can show maximum inrush current for a device's turn on (will tell you if a particular generator can provide enough power to turn on a device like a sump pump or a/c or refrigerator or electric motor from a fan or anything else).
You can use it to see how much power a Nitecore Intellicharger I4 draws when on 120v. In a power outage situation, it's more efficient to run items like the I4 off 12v power.
Max
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