ROAR of the Pelican (CR123 Explosion during use, firsthand account)

[VidPro]

Yes, the valve has ruptured many, many times for me, or been consumed in the fireball blasts I've had on a few test runs.

I could not get the venting/explosions to occur outside a flashlight, with bare cells. I did get 3 for 3 venting/bursts inside a PM6, with mis-matched cells. I could not get venting to occur with the BS ZTS tested "matched" cells. I could not get the venting to occur on days where the outside ambient temperature was above 85F. I did get 3 for 3 ventings to occur when I wrapped the cells in aluminum, much like the aluminum body of a flashlight.

See this thread for a video of an extremely minor venting video:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1497172

As far as testing single cell scenarios, at a later date you may be able to talk me into it, if you pay for the cells. Right now I've been busy running tests every night and on the weekends for the past month, and they are still in process.

well i can only sumarise your doing all the hard work.
so far mismatching seems to be a bad idea just dont know why exactally yet.

how many have NOT had a problem?

"I could not get the venting to occur on days where the outside ambient temperature was above 85F"

HMMMMM, and you noticed the internal cell heat protectors kicking in when drawing to much current.
COULD the internal heat protector be kicking in Faster when the temps outside are higher? does it shutdown more often when the temps are higher? or is the discharge during high temps the same as when cool outside.

cause the PCT isnt really ON the cells roll, so to speak, its above it enough that it can be effected by external temps. and its on the metal of the can, and all that, its not like its in the middle of the real problem

 

[Bright]

Hi,

I haven't read all of this thread (it is VERY long) but, didn't 100% of the accidental failures occur in two cell lights? i.e couldn't all of the accidents have been prevented by using single cells only?

Regards,

 

[drmaxx]

Kudo's BS for your quick response and generous offer to Lunarmodule. Kudo's to you Lunarmodule for your understanding and hesitance for litigation.

Agree!
And some more Kudo's to all the experimentalists out there that try to figure out the real cause of the failure (especially NewBie).

:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

 

[Ben H]

Any more updates from LunarModule or NewBie?

 

[NewBie]

Any more updates from LunarModule or NewBie?

It was the batteries causing most of the issue, and there are a multitude of lights that have failed, and since it is battery related, I split off and created a new thread, then combined information from a few threads, and then continued testing.

Take a look over here:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124776&page=1&pp=40

 

[Ben H]

Thanks Newbie!

 

[Icebreak]

Newbie -

I have an old style PM6 lamp assembly with no home. If you would like it for further testing PM me a mailing address.

 

[NewBie]

Newbie -

I have an old style PM6 lamp assembly with no home. If you would like it for further testing PM me a mailing address.

Thanks for the offer, I will certainly keep it in mind. At the moment, I have a few that are still intact, at the moment.

I'm building up a datalogger and signal conditioner, which will allow me to move on to the next phase of testing, so I'll be testing the M6 lights which were contributed, probably within the next month. I have a few other tests ahead of it.

The current scoop on where I'm at, and things I have monitored and recorded, is found over here:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124776&page=3&pp=40

 

[soapy]

What a long thread! Well worth reading, even if it did take two days.

I think that some people are missing the obvious, though.

I have a theory, and it basically boils down to the internal protection in the 123s not tripping due to the heat being conducted away from the protection circuit by the aluminium heatsink that is the body (Aluminium is the 3rd most heat conductive metal, iirc) with the result that the cell can get hot enough to reach venting temperatures in one part of the cell, but not in the other.

Of course, once venting temp is reached in one place, the runaway causes seals to fail, and the whole thing becomes catastropic.

Does the M6 case have a fairly tight fit to the batteries? Does anything else insulate them from the walls (e.g. a battery holder?)

Has anyone *ever* had a plastic torch go pop?

I've just started running my Zipka+ with Lithiums, I'll try not to sweat it too much!

---
In other news, isn't excessive lithium a problem that causes confusion, tremors and general illness? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_salt#Lithium_toxicity_and_side_effects)

If LM isn't answering much, and seems to be going flaky on deals, etc. since this happened, it could be as a result of the psycological effects of the lithium embedded in his foot. Just a though.

---

Finally, BatteryStation, I'm fairly new to this whole flashlight geek thing, but when I've got some money to spend on shine-y toys and batteries, I'll be coming to you. You deserve it. Customer service like I thought only my companies provided! :thumbsup:

 

[Edwood]

I'm scared.

Going to stick with single cell 123 lights.

-Ed

 

[alberto]

I'm scared.

Going to stick with single cell 123 lights.

-Ed

I KNEW there was a reason I prefered single-cell lights.

 

[Spongebob]

I noticed there is no damage to the aluminum foil since the ends were open. What would happen in a well built light like an X5 where there is no place for the flames to go, are we talking grenade here?


Or would the X5 not apply having such a long run time and obvously low drain?

 

[dougie]

Although I wouldn't do it to a typical standard production light I think there could be a strong arguement to fit a DIY pressure relief valve into modded lights. Something simple like a small diameter hole filled with a rubber grommet would maintain normal water resistance whilst allowing explosive gas pressure to vent? It appears to me to be a simple and easy safeguard if you are pushing the envelope with high end mods.

Whilst I realise that the PM6 in question here was bog standard the history of 3 incidents having been reported whilst using this particular model would suggest to me that owners at least consider the above mod?

Doug

 

[Gwaihir]

Or would the X5 not apply having such a long run time and obvously low drain?

Sorry for my english.
I think that maybe not all 2 CR-123 lights are dangerous ?
If led flashlight uses two CR-123 batteries and its leds are driven via resistor, then:
worst case scenario
1) If one battery is dead, it gives 0 volts. The second battery is fresh and gives 3 volts.
2) If leds are driven via resistor, they will not open. I.e. there will be no current through the leds, because 5mm leds needs 3.6-3.7 volts to open.

But if this flashlight uses voltage converter, then it can boost voltage on a led over 3.6 volt threshold. As a result dead battery will be charged backwards, and may vent.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that flashlight like Inova X5 is safe to use.

I want to buy Surefire L2, but i'm afraid of possible venting. As I know, this flashlight uses current regulator or voltage booster. And I think that if this light can operate on a single CR-123 cell, then it is potentially dangerous. Can anyone tell me the low voltage threshhold for this light ?

 

[Marlite]

Lunarmodule

I wish you a speedy recovery without lingering effects. You have taken the ultimate "hit" for the Team. You are some kinda selfless fella!

Amazing, that despite your horrendous experience and injuries you were still concerned for the safety, of others and documented in blood the blast and effects to CPF membership to the widest base available for immediate network distribution.

Your immediate absolution of Battery Station, Pelican and Stonedog of any blame for your suffering is compelling and describes a man of high ideals and character while maintaining an avid flashaholic.

Topper also took one for the team and knowing the dangers listed duplicated the blast also refusing damage reparations for the destroyed PM6.

Kudos, for despite your problems you have helped elevate the CPF spirit seen in the rallying to solve the problem and to prevent injury and property damage and improving safety for everyone. Commendations also to Battery Station for their quick damage control. So too for the CPF Community for their action.

Lots of Lux and many thanks, Marlite

 

[abvidledUK]

Would it help to have drilled a small venting hole in the torch ?

 

[tony22r]

Woa! ..This thread was an eye opener!

I remember warnings like "always replace your batteries in pairs", etc. but this thread really drives it home!

> Lunarmodule & others,
thanks for posting all this.

> Topper,
thanks for sacrificing your Pelican.


I guess it's another good argument for running a 1x18650 rather than 2xCR123..

 

[lebox97]

woa...

reviving an almost one year old thread???

 

[MikeSalt]

It may be a blast from the past, but the dangers are still very current. Lithium cells are still dangerous, and must be treated with utmost respect. To be on the safe side, consider single-celled flashlights.

 

[Brooke]

Hi:

Is there a data sheet for the CR123 batteries that were in your flashlight?

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.prc68.com/I/FlashlightPat.shtml