Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

I'm going to try to start breaking my questions into shorter posts to make them easier to read and reply to. I realize that some of my posts are on the long side, and probably not easy to follow.

Here's a question specifically about visibility of the beam:

Does a smaller arc size reduce visibility of the beam for a given bulb lumen level?

If so, might spending more on a 330W high pressure short arc mercury lamp actually hurt beam visibility, as compared to using an automotive HID running at 80W or so? I don't think so, but would like to make sure it's worth the extra effort and $$ to do the short arc, for my restated goals and power limit.

I know this partially repeats something we discussed above, but I would like to better understand this trade-off. I need to make a firm offer on the projector soon if I want it. Can't decide what it's worth to me in performance terms.

Further complicating the decision is that I still haven't been able to find a bulb lumens rating for the 330W Ushio NSHA Mercury Short Arc Lamp contained in that projector. I think it will be far more than from an HID, according to BVH's comments about efficiency, above.

Can anybody confirm this with high confidence, specifically comparing that bulb vs. a "100W" HID bulb?
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

One more post before I go. I found pictures of an 'equivalent' bulb to the Ushio in the projector. I think I could cut most of the reflector off with my wet tile saw, but it looks like it might be very difficult to remount after that. No good flange to put in a base.



BVH's suggested lab supply and lamp options in the < 500W range would cost a bit more, but would not have this problem. I am realizing that is a pretty darn good suggestion. Maybe I need to give up on the projector idea.

Any suggestions on how I might handle adapting a lamp like the one pictured above?
 

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

My short answer is that getlit is the real go-to member for your beam visibility questions. From what I remember, beam visibility has more to do with the Focal Length of the reflector - short vrs med vrs long FL and I think the long focal lengths provided a better beam visibility and a more uniform beam cross section brightness.

I have found that when I lump questions together in long posts, many do not get answered. I have started to number my questions 1-x and have had more complete responses.

I wish getlit was on more. He could set you straight quickly.

I should have asked if the projector lamp was a reflectorized unit. I've never figured out a way to use them, and I have purchased and then sold a few. Much easier dealing with brass or stainless cylindrical bases on conventionl SA lamps.

I don't think your posts are too long.

More editing: IIRC automotive HID and M.V. SA may be close to the same efficiency/Lumens per Watt. SA is around 35 to 40 LPW whereas HID and M.V. SA might be around 100 LPW. Seems to me that all other factors being equal, a shorter gap will result in a higher surface brightness (better throw) but lower overall Lumens.
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Rats, I wrote up quite a response but lost it to 'Token Expired', twice. Then I noticed the 'Restore autosaved content' button at the bottom when the blank response window showed up on the refreshed page. I never saw that before, and wish I had known about it one refresh ago.

So, in case others don't know about it:

If the forum loses your reply due to an error, look for the 'Restore autosaved content' button! You might get all of your work back!

-----

Maybe this is elementary to regular users....on to my post:

Thanks, BVH, that is helpful. I appreciate your hanging out in this thread with me, and your info!

I know I have been asking very specific questions that are hard to answer, but I'm interested in all aspects of making and using a light like this. If you guys have related thoughts, don't worry if they are a little off topic. I'm interested.

I don't have very much experience with optics or electronics, so that's what I am asking about. I am no professional machinist, but I do like to build stuff, and would be happy to answer questions about that.

On that note, I will explain a little more about how I made that frame in the next post.
 
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BVH

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

If I'm going to write a somewhat long post, I do a "preview" after each paragraph or so and maybe even copy that paragraph to the clipboard. I can usually get to the last saved screen by using the BACK button if I have done the "preview" thing.
 

JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Ok, here's that frame again.



While I used a TIG welder and a lathe to make this, it could be done with much simpler tools. A $50 MAPP gas torch, a drill press, and a file would go a long way. A Dremel, belt sander, or die grinder would be nice.

I didn't 'design' this, in that it was not dimensioned and laid out as a drawing, or anything like that. I visualized what I wanted, built the first part, checked the fit, and did that again and again until it was done.

First I made the mounting ring (#1). I did not make this from scratch. I started with a steel ring intended to be a pipe joint, which I got from the local scrap yard for $2. I just looked for something that had an ID as close to what I needed as possible, but smaller. I ended up having to remove about 0.100" radius material from the ID. I used a lathe, but a grinder would work fine. It doesn't even need to be precise, really. It gets clamped under a threaded ring on the reflector assembly that is quite wide. Hole needs to be big enough, but sloppy is OK.

Once this ring was installed on the reflector, I needed to start shaping the frame.

I started by setting my glass cover on a blanket, flat, on my bench. I put (3) 1/2" nuts on the glass cover to set my air gap, and then set the reflector on these, face down. I centered the reflector by putting my index fingers on opposite sides of the inside of the glass cover's edge band, and feeling it. This works surprisingly well, and is plenty close for the task. Easily within 1/16". This put the reflector just where I wanted it in final configuration, and made the ring (#1) the foundation of the frame layout. Everything else starts there.

I built off this, directly. I hardly measured anything. I would hold a piece of metal up to the reflector, put a mark on it, bend it, and go compare it again. If it fit, I would tape it in place, with a clothespin or chunk of cardboard under it as a spacer. Coat hanger wire or pipe cleaners would be good to use to develop these shapes if you haven't done this before, so you won't have to bend and unbend the steel tubing to get it right. Then use the hanger wire as a template when you bend the steel.

I simply bent the tubing in a vice, with a pipe stuck over the end to give me leverage on the larger ones (3/8 OD tube). For the smaller ones (1/4 OD solid), I would bend by hand and then bang with a hammer to get a sharper bend. I needed two of each part. I'd make the first, then use it as a template to make the second.

I would leave each piece about 1/4" longer than I thought it needed to be! That let me adjust by trimming to make up for the inevitable errors and asymmetry that would show up when I brazed it, since I did not have a sturdy fixture. First timers might want to leave 1/2". Welds and braze joints warp when they cool. It also gave me a little room to grind an angle on the end of one piece, to match the side of the one it would be brazed onto.

I made the main braces (#2, brazed to the ring) first.
I bent the tube sections to rough shape, two identical pieces. I set the ring on a flat surface, set the 2 bent rods along side it, and brazed only the tips of the tubes together. Then I tweaked the shape to make it sit flat with equal heights on both ends, and brazed it onto the ring.

Now, welding would be tricky here. The tubing is thin, the ring is thick. Tubing is Chrome Moly Steel, ring is stainless. It is possible to weld the two parts together, but not good practice, and the tube would tend to melt away before the ring was hot enough.

Brazing does not care so much about different materials and thicknesses. You don't have to get things as hot, and you don't have to melt the parts you are attaching. You can attach combinations of mild steel, brass, stainless, copper, nickel, cast iron, titanium, and more.

With a TIG welder, I use Silicon Bronze rods. This material is available for MIG welders, too, but I have not used it that way. Oxy Acetlyne brazing is an option, if you have that gear.

The easiest brazing I have ever done is Silver brazing. It is strong, but the melting temperature is within the range of a MAPP Gas torch. A regular propane torch will not work well, get one for MAPP gas, or dual fuel. A decent Bernz-o-matic is only about $60. Chinese ones are 1/4 that much. You will need a small roll of Silver Braze wire from your local welding store, and some flux. And some kind of decent eye protection with tint. Not necessarily welding goggles, it is not arc-weld bright. But a little too bright for naked eyes. I have done it with sunglasses, not recommended though.

I next made 2x of (#3) and brazed these in place. I did one side first, only on one end, the top! I can't final braze at the bottom with the lens in place, because the heat would wreck it. More on that in a minute.

I held a tube in place, eyeballed the angle I would need on the end, reshaped it on the grinder, and repeated until it made good contact at one edge, and was within 1/16 or so everyplace else. That is close enough for this application, the braze will fill it. Strong enough for what it is.

Finally, I did the shorter legs in the back. Not numbered in the pic above.

This left me with a spider shaped frame that would stand flat on the bench, but each leg was a slightly different length and angle. Bend, grind, recheck until all are sitting close to the bench.

For the attachment tabs (#4) I made a cardboard part first for fit, then hammered a scrap of stainless in the vise to match. 3 total.

Here is where my technique would need to be modified a bit to adapt to using a MAPP gas torch. With TIG, I can pump a bunch of heat in, fast! To put it in appropriate language here, it is a 20 kW Argon arc lamp with no enclosure, and an arc length of about 4 MM. :sick2:

This let me quickly put a drop of braze on a joint to 'tack' it, wait a few seconds, then blast compressed air onto the part before it could melt the rubber gasket in the cover lens. Once they were all tacked like this, I could pull the lens out, and finish the brazing. (fast cooling a braze joint will weaken it! But these are only tacks, and once final brazed, will be fine.

With a MAPP torch, you would need to figure out how to hold the attachment tabs in place without using the lens, during brazing. All else is the same. If the MAPP torch can't heat a big part quite enough, you can put it on a barbeque grille to get a head start. Or invite a friend and use two - simple propane for assist, even.

Oh yeah, one last thing. Don't use stainless unless you have to! It is a pain to drill and cut. Mild steel is much nicer to work with. I only used stainless for the ring, because that is what I found in the scrap pile with suitable dimensions.
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Busy working week. I spent a little time playing with light baffling, but nothing worthy of pictures yet.

I did not buy that big AV projector I mentioned above. Asking price turned out to be way too high. One digit too many.

---

So, now I am looking at other lamp options again. I will try to summarize the various categories I am considering, with some key points I think I have learned here, and in my related searches:
  1. Laboratory mercury arc lamps like the Oriels BVH pointed me towards. Power level varies, but 100W is most common. Kind of hard to find, need to match possibly untested components to have a chance of reasonable cost, and still expensive. Probably a $500+ set up at 100W.
  2. XBO short arc mercury lamps in the form of microscope illuminators. Easier to find in running condition, cheaper that either option 1 or 3. Maybe $300 for either 100W or 200W. This is probably the most expensive option I should consider.... EDIT: Life only 200 hours for XBO lamps?!
  3. Motion Picture-type 'HMI Fresnel Studio Lights' that could be cannibalized. Entry cost for this type would be the highest, because there are no low powered options. Middle cost option for the power rating of the lamp. Highest lumen output in the ~500W maximum range I think I can run off a vehicle, I think. About $650 but you get a lot of lumens!
  4. Run of the mill DLP projector. Certainly the cheapest option, maybe $50 working, shipped. Pain to remove bulb from reflector, and then mount it precisely. Could afford to try more than once. Cheapest mercury short arc source.
  5. 100W rated HID is my baseline option, but I am hoping for shorter arc length and higher output. $60.

So, there is quite a spectrum of prices, configuration, and outputs spanning my searches, now.
---

I learned of HMI lamps, used in option 3 above, in the 'Superlights Shootout' thread, from this post. They sound pretty good.

Complete HMI studio lights can be bought NEW, shipped from China unfortunately, for about $650 in 575W power. Housing, lamp, ballast, ignitor, lens, ready to use. 1200W is only a little more cost. Either would be tough for me to power from a vehicle, but 575W is probably possible if idling with all 12V stuff turned off. These entire studio spot lights cost less than buying a separate HMI lamp, ignitor, and ballast, it seems. The HMI bulbs used in them are single-ended mounting style, and output 49,000 lumens @ 575W!! But I don't know arc length or luminance, and didn't find the info easily. I need to find out more about these lamps! Way above my desired cost, but new, ready to run, and 49k Lumens? What am I missing? :thinking: Probably, the fact that buying it from China may not go well. They do offer a 14 day money back guarantee, with free return shipping. But, it takes more than 14 days to get here, so how can that work? I think the cost is too high, and risk too high, for me to chose this. It would be very nice to find just the lamp and ballast/ignitor for a fraction of the total light's cost, though!

One thing I like about this 'pseudo single-ended' lamp configuration is that it looks easier to cool the electrodes adequately, without overcooling the lamp's gas mix. As BVH alluded above, on a double-ended lamp you need to cool the far electrode without overcooling the bulb. Tricky.

I don't think I can link to auctions, but if you search for "Pro As arri HMI Fresnel" on a large auction site, you will see them, including pics of the lamp configuration.

---

The microscope illuminators seem more accessible than laboratory short arc lamps like the Oriels, both in price, and in being able to buy a complete, running set up. I am not sure if I could cool the ends adequately, without overcooling the gas mixture, in axial mounting configuration.

I haven't found a combination of 'Tested, good parts' to set up even a 200W Oriel mercury arc laboratory lamp with ignitor & power supply for much less than $800, yet. The ignitors seem to be the expensive/scarce component. I will try to keep watching for a deal. I am impatient to find my final light source, though!

The microscope illuminators could be bought or put together for less than half that cost, maybe $300 or a bit more, using tested working components. So that might possibly be an option.

HBO 100/2 and HBO 200/4 seem to be the most common ones available. These two similar-sounding lamp options are very different, in terms of intensity and output.

  • Classically referred to by the registered trademark as HBO lamps (H for Hg or mercury; B is the symbol for luminance; O for unforced cooling)
  • I think I like the HBO 200W better, due to output, but the arc gap is about 9 times bigger than the 100W!!
  • Lumen output is 4-5x as much for HBO200 vs HBO 100. But only 1/2 the lumens/watt of the HMI lamps, and 1/5 the output, for 1/2 the price.
  • Luminance is DRASTICALLY better for the HBO 100W vs 200W.
  • EDIT: HBO lamp does not require forced cooling, but lamp life is only 200 hours and 100 starts?! This article gives a pretty thorough and interesting description of HBO lamp technology http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/articles/lightsources/mercuryarc.html

Which to maximize for my build, luminance, or lumens? I think I need to find the best compromise of both. But where is the balance?


Question:

With my larger reflector, which of these HBO lamps do you guys think would be more suitable for generating a highly visible beam, as opposed to max throw?




.
Lamp
HBO100/2
HBO200/4
Nominal luminous flux2200 lm9500 lm
Luminance170000 cd/cm²33000 cd/cm²
Luminous intensity260 cd950 cd
Arc Length0.25 mm2.2 mm










Please feel free to share your thoughts.
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

I found an interesting, 1967 NASA report about remote sensing illuminators, including a bunch of Short Arc Lamp info. I didn't realize lamps like the XBO and HBO short arcs had been around that long. I have only skimmed the report, but this is where I found the arc length data (p27/166), for example: Link to NASA Report PDF
 

JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Here's a useful description of mounting and thermal considerations for the HBO lamps, from the above linked article:

As discussed above, mercury arc lamps contain a precisely measured amount of metallic mercury within the envelope, and they are filled with argon or xenon, which acts as a starter gas as the mercury vaporizes. When the lamps are cold, small droplets of mercury can often be observed on the inside walls and the gas pressure inside the envelope is lower than the ambient pressure of one atmosphere. Once the lamp is ignited, the mercury vaporizes over the course of a 5 to 10 minute transition phase. During this period, the lamp is operated at higher than normal current, requiring the anode to be positioned at the bottom of the lamp to ensure proper vaporization of the mercury. For this reason, the ferrule sockets in a mercury lamphouse have different diameters (one smaller than the other) to enable correct positioning of the lamp, which itself has a larger ferrule on the anode end of the tube. Thus, mercury arc lamps are positioned vertically within the lamphouse with the anode pointing toward the bottom and the cathode pointing upward. Operating a mercury lamp at an angle exceeding 30° from the vertical position deflects the arc toward the quartz envelope resulting in uneven heating and premature darkening of the bulb. Several mercury lamp designs incorporate a reflective coating on part of the envelope to speed the vaporization transition phase and to improve thermal distribution. Because the envelope temperature influences the internal mercury pressure to a significant degree, mercury arc lamps are sensitive to airflow over the bulb and this aspect must be carefully controlled by the lamphouse.
 

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

More on Projector lamps:

Many DLP projectors use UHP lamps, with a nice 1mm arc length. Very high luminosity. So, I investigated UHP lamps more deeply today, to see what I might get myself into. It is becoming evident to me that they have critical cooling requirements which would be too difficult for me to reliably duplicate with a lamp extracted from a projector. The entire quartz envelope must be kept between 1190k and 1400k. Risk of bursting lamp and ruining my reflector during testing would be high, unless I err on the side of overcooling, in which case output will be weak, and the lamp will turn black due to recrystallization on the cooler parts of the quartz.

Another point for BVH; I am beginning to see why he never pursued projector lamps, and gently tried to steer me away from them. HBO lamps and HIDs are less intense, but do not have this same level of risk.

ma sha1 made UHP work in his Mega Blaster and Moon Blaster, so it can be done:thumbsup:. But the photos from those thread are gone, and I don't have any idea how he cooled the lamp. I don't dare attempt it myself without more info. I think it is unlikely I will hit the proper operating temperatures, and it is not really possible to measure.

If anybody has experience running UHP out of a projector, I would love to hear how they cooled it!

The more I learn, the more difficult it is to pick a better lamp than HID! It is hard to beat 100w HID with similar output in a smaller arc, without spending a LOT more. I can't see a way, yet.

More info about UHP thermal design here, for anybody interested, p.16: http://koti.kapsi.fi/jahonen/Electronics/Stuff/UHP_Lamp.pdf
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Been reading more build threads.....saw a post from get-lit hinting that Philips MSR Gold lamps might be worth looking at. So, I did. Well, it turns out they are universal position, with special crimps which make them more tolerant of running hot. They are HID MH type lamps with ~5mm arc length. 300W delivers ~22k Lumens. But the only listed ballast on Philips' site is an obscure German one.

Does anybody know if the universal digital MH ballasts can strike and run these?
 

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

I'm still enjoying your posts and wish I could contribute more but I've never found a way to buy reasonably priced lamp and ballast sets anywhere so I've never set out to build my own light.
 

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Thanks for letting me know the posts are still at least somewhat interesting. They have deteriorated more towards indecisive ramblings, I know. I think I will just stumble around the web until my learning curve intersects my 'remaining patience' curve. At that point, I will impulsively buy something and try it. I am spending too many hours reading, and not enough building. Stuck.

I'll get back to pictures and action, eventually!
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

deleted post.
 

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

found a working Oriel 50 - 200 power supply for less than $200 on Ebay. It's for Xenon and Mercury Xenon

ww.ebay.com/itm/ORIEL-68805-UPS-UNIVERSAL-ARC-LAMP-POWER-SUPPLY-40-200W-PSU-REGULATED-/291236077736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43cf05e0a8

This operates the same as my 450-1000 (which is really 350 to 1200 Watt) You preset the Watts or Amps you want by pushing in the small middle black button and using the black rotary knob to set your level on the meter. Release the preset button and you're free to start the lamp by pushing the smaller start button over on the left. Once running, the supply is infinitely adjustable by simply turning the larger black rotary knob. It's a very nice older linear style PS.

"Short Arc Lamp" search on Ebay and then sort by lowest price first yields lots of sub $100, even some sub $50, new, 200 Watt Mercury/Xenon lamps. Many by Advanced Radiation Corp (my obsolete lamp supplier) Be sure to investigate to make sure they are not UV-specific lamps.
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Thanks BVH! Every time I get tired of talking to myself here, you chime in and remind me I am not alone in this.

I had seen a few PS like the one you posted. It does look like a good supply, perfect really. However, I think that power supply requires an external ignitor, doesn't it?

I thought it prudent to find an ignitor first, since that seems to be the rarest and most expensive component. That is the part I have been having a hard time finding. Do you have an ignitor, too, or do you DIY that part? I do have Neon transformers and furnace ignitions that can make an arc, but am a little hesitant to play with the lethal HV and inject it into the power supply, for fear of killing it or me.

Note to future readers of this thread: I know ebay links are not great for documenting thread content because they expire. It is not helpful to read an old thread and not be able to see the details of posted auctions that are gone, so I have noted the prices and general descriptions below to try to keep some utility in the info.
--

Here's a similar one that went for $140 yesterday:
Oriel 68700 Analog Display 100W/200W Xe Hg Selection Arc Lamp Supply Unit
ww.ebay.com/itm/111453399366?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

--

Here's the least expensive Oriel ignitor I am currently watching. $452, too steep for me I think, but does come with a lamp housing that would have some utility for mounting parts etc. A lamp housing alone went for about $50 last week, so I don't think that is a large part of the value here:
Oriel Arc Lamp & Arc Lamp Ignitor 660055 SVGA 68705 working
ww.ebay.com/itm/310448805023?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT​

--

This is the cheapest complete running setup I have found, an HBO200 microscope illuminator. Did not sell for $400. Non-adjustable PS. OLD!
Carl Zeiss Binocular Microscope Lamp Housing HBO 200/4 Base + Power Supply
ww.ebay.com/itm/271590115028?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

I have been reading all I can find about the Philips MSR-SA lamps. These are Metal Halide HID Short Arc lamps. Documentation says they 'are best on electronic ballasts but will work on magnetic ballast with an ignitor'. That implies to me that perhaps a typical MH electronic ballast would work. Such a ballast can be had for about $100, if it would work. However, the MSR-SA lamps list 'up to max 20s starting duration' under ballast specs, and most of these MH ballasts only apply HV starting for a few seconds. So, not sure they would work. But I really like the universal operating position, the robust pinch design for high temp running (500C ends, 1000C envelope) and the fact that they are single ended (both electrodes on same end) but have a traditional axial arc orientation. I would like to run one in 400W power if I can. 30,000 Lumens, 3mm arc. Pretty sure these are intended for AC operation, not DC, so would not have sharpest illuminance profile, but a LOT better than the AC HID I am using as baseline for my project.

Here is the product spec sheet for the MSR SA lamps:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Philips_MSR_SA_specsheet.pdf

EDIT: This is the brand recommended by Philips for ballasts for the MSR lamps (non-short arc versions are just called MSR, not MSR SA), but they do not seem to specify if MSR SA works on same ballasts. Schiederwerk. Even sounds expensive. I can't tell if these operate substantially differently from other MH electronic balasts (cheaper ones!).
http://www.schiederwerk.de/index.ph...-and-ignitors-led-drivers/electronic-ballasts

Here are two MSR 400 SA lamps for $125. New ones are about $120/ea or less from lamp stores. Not too bad, if they can use a cheap ballast:
ww.ebay.com/itm/MSR-400-Sa-Bulb-Short-Arc-Phillips-Two-Of-Them-One-Price-/301213544681?pt=US_Stage_Lighting_Replacement_Bulbs_Lamps&hash=item4621b9f0e9

Here's a 400W MH electronic ballast for $75:
400w HPS MH GROW LIGHT Digital ELECTRONIC Dimming Ballast DIMMABLE 400 W WATT

ww.ebay.com/itm/400w-HPS-MH-GROW-LIGHT-Digital-ELECTRONIC-Dimming-Ballast-DIMMABLE-400-W-WATT-/380866780593?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item58ad6dddb1
 
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JP Labs

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Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Too bad I am limiting my power to 500W or less for off grid running with car power. Or I could maybe be done with this search.

Here is a possible deal for somebody who might be following this, thinking of a similar project...a 1200W Schiederwerk ballast for $200!

I cannot confirm this is an appropriate combination due to the lack of specific SA notes on the ballast, so that is still an open question.

The MSR SA Gold 1200W lamps are double ended, beautiful, and can be had for only about $130 new. Somebody can have 102,000 Lumens in a 7mm arc!

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Here's that lamp spec sheet:
http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4b/9/928175305115_eu/928175305115_eu_pss_aenaa.pdf


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Here is the ballast spec, listing MSR as appropriate, but again, not specifically the MSR SA:
http://www.schiederwerk.de/index.ph...arge-lamps/up-to-1200-watt/26-pvg-12-12-ac-sl
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Here's the ballast:
Schiederwerk PVG 12-12 AC SL Electronic Ballast, 115/230VAC, 47-63Hz, 1200W

ww.ebay.com/itm/Schiederwerk-PVG-12-12-AC-SL-Electronic-Ballast-115-230VAC-47-63Hz-1200W-/331276943878?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d21a50206

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Bill in Idaho, this might be nice for your project?
 
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BVH

Flashaholic
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
7,023
Location
CentCalCoast
Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

Too bad you're not closer. I just bought a most likely new and unused, old stock Oriel 69920 which is the newer switch mode 450-1000 Watt model of the Linear Supply model I have now. I went to use the Linear supply yesterday and did not remember that it must weigh 50-60 lbs which is not good for my weak back. I have a complete 450-1000 Watt lamp housing with ignitor and the OEM connection cables for the Linear unit. I am hoping that the ignitor will work with the new PS but the connection cable is different and the wiring pinout description is different. Where the old ignitor I have gets a 35khz pulse to activate it, the newer ballast (I don't have) says it gets a momentary ground. I know that does not necessarily make them different but I am not sure I know enough to test it out. I would think they would be the same. If not, I will be looking for a lamp housing with ignitor and as you say, they are expensive.

Long story short, I will probably sell the Linear and lamp housing with ignitor and they will work down to 350 Watts. But I don't look forward to shipping it. This heavy stuff is a pain to ship without damage. And you're limiting your power so this doesn't fit the bill anyway.

The linked ballast and some lamps do sound perfect for Bill of Idaho. Bill, are you listening.....? I just sent Bill a PM with a link to your post.
 
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JP Labs

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
133
Location
Michigan
Re: Scored a Nice 16" Parabolic Reflector. HID or Short Arc? Test Beamshots w/ HID.

OK, finally, a little build progress worthy of pictures. I tried a 175W Mercury Vapor lamp in the light last night, but as expected, with a ~50mm arc length, it was terrible. No pics of that, imagine a 120degree wall of light.

But, I worked more on the light baffle. Used my cellphone camera this time, sorry.

Started with a chunk of 18" Sonotube:


I peeled off the inside waxed paper layer and painted it flat black. This left a nice textured, non-glare surface. Wrapped it in aluminum flashing:


Front 3/4 view. This stops side and rear spill, allows airflow to exit around lens, and would block rain pretty well, too:


To mount it, I glued wood blocks to the tube ID such that they sit on the lens' metal surround ring, then glued Rare Earth magnets to the blocks. Sticks well.

I was going to paint the aluminum black, too, but I am kind of liking the metal finish now. Maybe I just paint the frame black, but leave everything else raw. Or maybe I paint the whole thing in Olive Drab Green. Opinions?
 
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