The Official Zebralight Thread .

[joelbnyc]

How long do preorders usually take to ship?

Waiting in US for a SC64c on 11/23 (order #103766XX), and a SC600w IV Plus on 11/27 (order #103768XX), under the impression that "preorders start shipping Nov 30th," like their site says. I figured a few days tops.

Do they practice just-in-time inventory/manufacturing or something? Like manufacturing in batches only after they have payment in hand from X number of orders? Or do they just have a very small number of people doing their pack and shipping?

 

[noboneshotdog]

Is there a final concensus as to how many lumens the SC600 MKIV HI is putting out? It seems I recall some of the first few guys that received it and had meters were stating it was less than the 1400 manufacturers specs.

I got mine last week and was curious if what I am seeing is 1400 lm or not.

I will say one thing, I am VERY happy with my light weather it is or isn't 1400 lm.

 

[Tachead]

How long do preorders usually take to ship?

Waiting in US for a SC64c on 11/23 (order #103766XX), and a SC600w IV Plus on 11/27 (order #103768XX), under the impression that "preorders start shipping Nov 30th," like their site says. I figured a few days tops.

Do they practice just-in-time inventory/manufacturing or something? Like manufacturing in batches only after they have payment in hand from X number of orders? Or do they just have a very small number of people doing their pack and shipping?

There are between 800 and 1000 orders before you because you ordered almost a month after the preorders opened. The pre-orders just "start" shipping on the 30th. There are 10 new flashlight models and 10 new headlamp models plus all the other older models. They can only make lights so fast and likely make a set size of each model at a time so depending when you order you might have to wait for the second or even third batch. It will take a while before they get caught up as it sounds like they got more orders then expected. Pre-orders are always uncertain. You have to order an in stock item if you want fast shipping or a guaranteed delivery date. If you want a rough idea how much time you are looking at email ZL and they will give you an idea.

 

[Tachead]

That's the sign of contacting them... they ship orders based on order#.

Yep, I will contact them if I don't get a shipping notice early next week. I don't want to be pushy as I know they are very busy. I am going to be patient for now. Plus, there has only been one report of an SC64c shipping so far.

 

[joelbnyc]

There are between 800 and 1000 orders before you because you ordered almost a month after the preorders opened. The pre-orders just "start" shipping on the 30th. There are 10 new flashlight models and 10 new headlamp models plus all the other older models. They can only make lights so fast and likely make a set size of each model at a time so depending when you order you might have to wait for the second or even third batch.

Thanks. I'm not hating on them. I can wait.

But for a bunch of engineers, a script outputting an estimated ship date is trivial. Any decent undergrad CS or engineering student could bang it out in 20 minutes.

And I'm sure there is freely available open source code they could adapt if this would be too much effort. Then all they have to do is input a few variables for each light that comes out.

Under-promise, over-deliver.

 

[Tachead]

Thanks. I'm not hating on them. I can wait.

But for a bunch of engineers, a script outputting an estimated ship date is trivial. Any decent undergrad CS or engineering student could bang it out in 20 minutes.

Under-promise, over-deliver.

No problem:thumbsup:.

I agree with the under promise, over deliver mantra for sure but, I don't really think it applies here.

It says that shipping "starts" on the 30th, not that all orders will ship on the 30th. They really have no idea how many orders they will receive for each model so, there is no way for them to estimate a shipping date for everyone who orders. In fact, they have no idea even how many of each model to make at first. A pre-order is always uncertain and I believe ZL is just giving people a rough idea when the first lights will begin to ship. Depending on when you order and how many people order before you, the time until shipping could/can vary greatly. It always works this way for pre-orders from my experience, not just with flashlights either. If you want to get your pre-order shipped close to the estimated shipping start date, you have to order right away when the pre-order opens, otherwise you may have to wait for later batches and/or for all the others in line in front of you to be served first.

 

[Derek Dean]

Thanks. I'm not hating on them. I can wait.

But for a bunch of engineers, a script outputting an estimated ship date is trivial. Any decent undergrad CS or engineering student could bang it out in 20 minutes.

And I'm sure there is freely available open source code they could adapt if this would be too much effort. Then all they have to do is input a few variables for each light that comes out.

Under-promise, over-deliver.

Hmmm......I got my shipping notice on Nov. 27, so they beat their original estimate by 3 days.

I'll say this, Joel......first, this is typical for a ZL release, which is why folks who already have a ZL go out of their way to get on the pre-order list early, and second, if you're new to ZL lights, then you'll find out..... it's worth the wait : )

 

[TCY]

This is how ZL's manufacturing and shipping works:

ZL makes lights in very small quantities, batch after batch because of manufacturing difficulties. For example, ZL lights' housing are carved out of one bar of aluminium for maximum structural integrity and heat dissipation, which only a handful of the flashlight manufacturers do, but this costs A LOT MORE, is technically more difficult to do so and takes more time than your typical processes used by mainstream manufacturers. They do the anodisation process under better conditions e.g. sub-zero degree C environment, which requires some serious industrial grade air-con. This is the reason ZL ano is tougher than most of the "Type III mil grade hard ano" out there on the market.

Because of this, ZL can only meet a portion of the pre-orders initially, hence why people swarm in when ZL is about to accept pre-orders. Typically only those who pre-ordered on day 1,2 and 3 can get the first batch, and ZL will have to make batch number two, even three, to fill the leftover pre-orders.

 

[vadimax]

I ordered this, and separately ordered an SC600Fc a few days later. Also want two headlamps, but given the price, that it's my first time ordering from Zebralights directly, and that the ship dates for the headlamps is later, I figured those can wait.

Did you order anything else at the same time? My guess is that'd be the reason, if another item is delaying it. Or custom requests in order comments etc.

I don't understand you, man... Don't you trust eu.nkon.nl any more? They are Zebralight representatives in EU. And their service is perfect (at least for me) so far

 

[joelbnyc]

No problem:thumbsup:.

I agree with the under promise, over deliver mantra for sure but, I don't really think it applies here.

It says that shipping "starts" on the 30th, not that all orders will ship on the 30th. They really have no idea how many orders they will receive for each model so, there is no way for them to estimate a shipping date for everyone who orders. In fact, they have no idea even how many of each model to make at first. A pre-order is always uncertain and I believe ZL is just giving people a rough idea when the first lights will begin to ship. Depending on when you order and how many people order before you, the time until shipping could/can vary greatly. It always works this way for pre-orders from my experience, not just with flashlights either. If you want to get your pre-order shipped close to the estimated shipping start date, you have to order right away when the pre-order opens, otherwise you may have to wait for later batches and/or for all the others in line in front of you to be served first.

I realize they don't know how many orders they will get. From a coding standpoint, that doesn't matter though. It's just a variable with a value you can increment.

They could write a simple script and reuse it for each new light, that would for each order output on the checkout page an expected ship date, with adjustable values assigned to constants for orders needed for a new batch, and estimated turnaround time for each light they come out with. Not rocket science. They have to have some ballpark range worked out with their factories.

Or at least, add a qualifier to "preorder shipping starts Nov 30," to clarify that it could actually be several weeks or even months before you receive your order.

I guess if they changed some lights to "backordered," that's better than nothing. I still would have ordered, but these days customers kind of expect shipping estimates.

ZL makes lights in very small quantities, batch after batch because of manufacturing difficulties. For example, ZL lights' housing are carved out of one bar of aluminium for maximum structural integrity and heat dissipation, which only a handful of the flashlight manufacturers do, but this costs A LOT MORE, is technically more difficult to do so and takes more time than your typical processes used by mainstream manufacturers. They do the anodisation process under better conditions e.g. sub-zero degree C environment, which requires some serious industrial grade air-con. This is the reason ZL ano is tougher than most of the "Type III mil grade hard ano" out there on the market.

Because of this, ZL can only meet a portion of the pre-orders initially, hence why people swarm in when ZL is about to accept pre-orders. Typically only those who pre-ordered on day 1,2 and 3 can get the first batch, and ZL will have to make batch number two, even three, to fill the leftover pre-orders.

I get that their manufacturing is in a class of its own, I definitely respect that. I'm guessing the founder(s) are electrical/mechanical engineers? Do they have professional profile somewhere? Must be an interesting story how these guys get into lights and start their own companies.

I'm psyched to have the lights in my hands, after hearing about them over the years

 

[terjee]

Plus, there has only been one report of an SC64c shipping so far.

Thinking about mine?

I have two orders and one RMA, so it's entirely possible that it could be some other factor, maybe the picked mine early out of pity? ;-)

It also hasn't had any tracking updates, so could be a clerical error as well.

I don't understand you, man... Don't you trust eu.nkon.nl any more? They are Zebralight representatives in EU. And their service is perfect (at least for me) so far

Sure I trust them, I think I've run about 40 orders with them at this point, and they're my #1 preferred dealer. They just hadn't listed these lights when the preorder opened.

Their service has always been impeccable, often answering email far outside office hours, and they're generally enjoyable to deal with.

It's likely that I'll use them for the two headlamps I've got planned.

 

[terjee]

But for a bunch of engineers, a script outputting an estimated ship date is trivial. Any decent undergrad CS or engineering student could bang it out in 20 minutes.

As someone that does systems development for a living, I tend to strongly disagree with statements like these.

It seems trivial when you have no idea what you're talking about, but then you dive in, and understand what makes the statement obviously false for this or that particular case.

(Just to be clear; I'm making up stuff below to illustrate a point, nothing implied about how anything is actually done)

Take Zebralight as an example, and the SC600-style body. It's entirely possible that their production lines finishes SC600-styles lights one type at a time. Say in batches of 50 lights.

Then say you've gotten 110 orders for SC600Fc, and 40 for SC600Fd. You can satisfy both by making three batches of the Fc, and one of the Fd, so it's all good.

In order to make as many customers happy as soon as possible though, you start by doing two batches of the SC600, then one of the Fd, and finally the last batch of Fc.

But what if it had been different? What if you'd gotten 110 orders for the Fd and 40 for the Fc? (Reversed counts). Then you'd probably make 2 Fd batches first instead, and the wait times would be flipped.

Yeah, you could make the system take order counts into the mix as they come in, but then you're doing an integration with the web shop, and things start to grow.

You could have someone responsible at the factory update the system about readiness of various lights and ship out estimated shipping dates to people that have ordered already, but then you're not only making a system, but also pulled resources for it. And so it goes.

Before you even get to any of this though, you'd have to start by defining what you want, and find someone to do it.

Yeah, these things can definitively be done, and would be nice to have, but "trivial" and "bang it out in 20 minutes" is usually missing the mark by a wide margin.

Under-promise, over-deliver.

I agree in principle, but it could be argued that the principle applies in the other direction as well. If you start handing out expected shipping dates (even if you say estimated), peoples expectations will quickly adapt.

All of that said, I'll concede the point that they could have updated the page a bit as said "new orders expected to ship" and a later date, or given "within 2 weeks" or some such, but I wouldn't consider it a major issue.

 

[TCY]

I realize they don't know how many orders they will get. From a coding standpoint, that doesn't matter though. It's just a variable with a value you can increment.

They could write a simple script and reuse it for each new light, that would for each order output on the checkout page an expected ship date, with adjustable values assigned to constants for orders needed for a new batch, and estimated turnaround time for each light they come out with. Not rocket science. They have to have some ballpark range worked out with their factories.

Or at least, add a qualifier to "preorder shipping starts Nov 30," to clarify that it could actually be several weeks or even months before you receive your order.

I guess if they changed some lights to "backordered," that's better than nothing. I still would have ordered, but these days customers kind of expect shipping estimates.



I get that their manufacturing is in a class of its own, I definitely respect that. I'm guessing the founder(s) are electrical/mechanical engineers? Do they have professional profile somewhere? Must be an interesting story how these guys get into lights and start their own companies.

I'm psyched to have the lights in my hands, after hearing about them over the years

George, the owner of ZL, is a Chinese-American software engineer who moved to the states back in the 80s. AFAIK ZL was a hobby of his and eventually turned into a full time career.. don't remember where I read this. it might be just him doing the work or they have a dedicated R&D team, either way they know their stuff.

You're gonna love it.

 

[WebHobbit]

Yep, the ZL UI is quite amazing in it's well thought out versatility, and the form factor of the SC64w is just perfect for an EDC work light.

I go back and forth between my SC62w and my SC600 series lights all the time. Of course the SC6x series is thinner, and practically disappears in the pocket, but the SC600 series light's extra mass let's me run at a higher level without getting hot as quickly as the smaller SC6x series, so as usual, it's a trade-off as to which one I decide to carry. Usually, I'll carry the SC62w if I have a day job that might go into the evening, and I'll carry the SC600 if I have a night job where I know I'll need the extra output.

I'll be interested to hear if, like many ZL users, you find the extreme LOW level outputs to be just as useful as the higher outputs. The ability to quickly and easily match the light level to whatever task is at hand is one of ZL's great strengths.

In any case, enjoy your new light.

Insofar as the low mode(s). I still really can't see any scenario where I would use it beyond an emergency "have to save this battery as there is a power-outage". I have seen the arguments about preserving night adapted vision and all that. I guess we just don't keep our house as dark at night as many of you. We have a couple of fairly bright night lights in place so there aren't many areas that are "cave dark" in our place EVER (unless we lose power). We also have three different lights that come on outside around the property at night so it's not pitch-black out there either until you walk away from the buildings toward the fields. So for me the SC64w's most used are (in order):

M-127 Lumens
H2 -875 Lumens
H1- 1400 Lumens

 

[niraya]

Insofar as the low mode(s). I still really can't see any scenario where I would use it beyond an emergency "have to save this battery as there is a power-outage". I have seen the arguments about preserving night adapted vision and all that. I guess we just don't keep our house as dark at night as many of you. We have a couple of fairly bright night lights in place so there aren't many areas that are "cave dark" in our place EVER (unless we lose power). We also have three different lights that come on outside around the property at night so it's not pitch-black out there either until you walk away from the buildings toward the fields. So for me the SC64w's most used are (in order):

M-127 Lumens
H2 -875 Lumens
H1- 1400 Lumens

Where I live. it is pitch totally dark at night, you can't see your hand waving in front of your face, and any light above 0.5 lumen is painfully blinding when turned on in the middle of night. Zebralight headlamps and Armytek Wizard Pro at lowest settings are perfect and totally sufficient to move inside an, around house.

 

[SubLGT]

w00T! SC64w landed! Only 2 noticeable changes. Now 5 pogo pins in head instead of the 62s' 3. New style blackened clip….

How is the tint on your sample?

 

[eh4]

For an all night work light I think 60+/- lumens for 8.5 hours (H52 and H53) or 30 hours (H600 models) is hard to beat.
I find myself setting the L and M to their highest settings, and the H to the lower 4 hour setting to be about perfect for most uses... the L gets swapped to its second lowest mode and the M to its lowest mode for dark adapted use, and H only gets popped up to its highest level in daylight, or occasionally to light up a larger area at night.
I'm looking forward to the MK IV for its being able to supply a high CRI "c" model that beats my MK II "w" in brightness, but I'm not sure if messing with G6 and G7 programming will be easier with 5, 6, and 7 clicks than just swapping the L and M settings when needed.

 

[noboneshotdog]

For an all night work light I think 60+/- lumens for 8.5 hours (H52 and H53) or 30 hours (H600 models) is hard to beat.
I find myself setting the L and M to their highest settings, and the H to the lower 4 hour setting to be about perfect for most uses... the L gets swapped to its second lowest mode and the M to its lowest mode for dark adapted use, and H only gets popped up to its highest level in daylight, or occasionally to light up a larger area at night.
I'm looking forward to the MK IV for its being able to supply a high CRI "c" model that beats my MK II "w" in brightness, but I'm not sure if messing with G6 and G7 programming will be easier with 5, 6, and 7 clicks than just swapping the L and M settings when needed.

Swapping between G5 G6 AND G7 is super easy. You will love it!

 

[tompen41]

Where are the run times for most of the new lights? Especially the SC64w. I see the SC600w lV but is this normal for ZL to be this late bringing out the specs for new lights?

 

[Dio]

Where are the run times for most of the new lights? Especially the SC64w. I see the SC600w lV but is this normal for ZL to be this late bringing out the specs for new lights?

That is a little worrying for a potential buyer I suppose but for a ZL fan it really wont bother them too much.

I like the fact that they aren't just posting BS numbers; they are likely just waiting on accurate lab results..