ZebraLight SC600 MkII

[KITROBASKIN]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

... unless it's pitch dark i have to put a finger in front of the lens to see whether it came on in low.


/guy

Just to be sure, and for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the ZL user interface: the low, medium and high settings have two immediate options. Getting the other option requires a quick double click. If your low setting is on moonlight, you can change it to a brighter option.

 

[gteague]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

even the 'brightest' of the lows is virtually undetectable unless you're looking at the light from the front or it reflects off something or (it goes without saying, you're in a dark enough room. i have the same problem with the 3 lumen mode of the tm26--it would be all too easy to think the light is off given the right circumstances.

i haven't gotten to the programming modes yet. the instructions say you can configure the sublevels. does this mean you can set any level you want? or perhaps choose from the existing ones, like move a medium level into the low mode? i'm still poking around and experimenting. i think there's a youtube out there that concentrates on the ui, i'll have to go find that one again now that i have the light in hand.

[upd: answering a couple of my own questions. the programming mode is easy to understand and enter. simply turn the light on to whatever level you want to change the sub-level of (you can't change the main l/m/h levels) and then double-click 6 times. i couldn't tell if there was any indication or not, but after the 6 double-clicks you should notice that each double-click after that is cycling the light level in 3 steps. simply select one of the 3 levels and then single-click to off. the light level you just selected is now the sub-level of whatever mode (l/m/h) you were in when you entered programming mode. i can tell you that the lowest of the 3 sub-levels under the low level is about as little illumination as you can get. if you look directly into the reflecter it just looks like the led is barely glowing. still, in an ultra dark room it 'throws' a few feet and you can see it. i'd rate this programming feature as next-to-useless except for the fact you can set the high sub-level to strobe and you can set that low sub-level to a nearly undetectable, but still useful, setting. on my hds lights you have about 30 levels to work with for each channel and if you want your low level to be only a handful of lumens below your medium level it is trivially easy to do. or you can even swap the low channel for the medium channel if you want to change the sequence in which you access those modes.]

anyway, just came back from one of my nightly walks and the sc600 interface and pre-set levels work very well in my environment. subjectively, i think the highest mode is only about 300, perhaps 400 lumens tops. but my eyes are bad and i'm just guessing. it has good 'spillover' and the actual view is better than some of the lights i've owned over the years that cost much more than this one. although i wouldn't call the quality of the light 'cool white', i can't see a trace of the greens or purples some people are reporting, but then i'm not looking that hard for those flaws. i will say the tint works much better outdoors than indoors against a white wall where it does look ugly even without the green and purple hues.

as someone who works nights and carries a light every waking hour, the things that mean more to me are an easy to use interface, good weight and balance, a belt clip that hangs onto your belt, and the ability to survive the inevitable drops. this light feels very good in my hand with the control falling naturally right under the thumb and the weight is well balanced. only time will tell about the ruggedness and ability to shrug off the occasional drop or rainshower.

the engineers and designers actually put in the time on this light and made some wise choices as to specs and operation. i'll be more than happy to carry this as my edc light.

/guy

 

[TEEJ]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

even the 'brightest' of the lows is virtually undetectable unless you're looking at the light from the front or it reflects off something or (it goes without saying, you're in a dark enough room. i have the same problem with the 3 lumen mode of the tm26--it would be all too easy to think the light is off given the right circumstances.

i haven't gotten to the programming modes yet. the instructions say you can configure the sublevels. does this mean you can set any level you want? or perhaps choose from the existing ones, like move a medium level into the low mode? i'm still poking around and experimenting. i think there's a youtube out there that concentrates on the ui, i'll have to go find that one again now that i have the light in hand.

[upd: answering a couple of my own questions. the programming mode is easy to understand and enter. simply turn the light on to whatever level you want to change the sub-level of (you can't change the main l/m/h levels) and then double-click 6 times. i couldn't tell if there was any indication or not, but after the 6 double-clicks you should notice that each double-click after that is cycling the light level in 3 steps. simply select one of the 3 levels and then single-click to off. the light level you just selected is now the sub-level of whatever mode (l/m/h) you were in when you entered programming mode. i can tell you that the lowest of the 3 sub-levels under the low level is about as little illumination as you can get. if you look directly into the reflecter it just looks like the led is barely glowing. still, in an ultra dark room it 'throws' a few feet and you can see it. i'd rate this programming feature as next-to-useless except for the fact you can set the high sub-level to strobe and you can set that low sub-level to a nearly undetectable, but still useful, setting. on my hds lights you have about 30 levels to work with for each channel and if you want your low level to be only a handful of lumens below your medium level it is trivially easy to do. or you can even swap the low channel for the medium channel if you want to change the sequence in which you access those modes.]

anyway, just came back from one of my nightly walks and the sc600 interface and pre-set levels work very well in my environment. subjectively, i think the highest mode is only about 300, perhaps 400 lumens tops. but my eyes are bad and i'm just guessing. it has good 'spillover' and the actual view is better than some of the lights i've owned over the years that cost much more than this one. although i wouldn't call the quality of the light 'cool white', i can't see a trace of the greens or purples some people are reporting, but then i'm not looking that hard for those flaws. i will say the tint works much better outdoors than indoors against a white wall where it does look ugly even without the green and purple hues.

as someone who works nights and carries a light every waking hour, the things that mean more to me are an easy to use interface, good weight and balance, a belt clip that hangs onto your belt, and the ability to survive the inevitable drops. this light feels very good in my hand with the control falling naturally right under the thumb and the weight is well balanced. only time will tell about the ruggedness and ability to shrug off the occasional drop or rainshower.

the engineers and designers actually put in the time on this light and made some wise choices as to specs and operation. i'll be more than happy to carry this as my edc light.

/guy

One factor when trying to judge the lumen output of a light that seems to stymie people is that you can't SEE lumens...so looking at a beam and trying to say how many of them are out there is very hard.

You CAN see lux though, which represents the lumens that hit something and bounced back to your eyes. A very concentrated beam puts most of its lumens in a small circle of light, so that the light from that small circle bounces back and is perceived as a small bright circle of light.

A floody beam takes its lumens and spreads them out over a large area, so the amount of lumens in any one area is less concentrated. This is perceived as a dimmer light over a larger surface area...IE: "Less Bright"


The reality is that it takes a LOT more lumens to paint a large surface area than it does to paint a small circle.

The output of the light though, due to the lower surface brightness, is perceived as lower, as the eye is not perceiving it as "Bright" an input from a hot spot, etc.


This is why I can show people a ~ 130 lumen thrower and a 1,000 lumen flooder, shine them both at something, and have them all describe the 130 L light as "Brighter". Its just how our eyes perceive brightness - If our pupils have to stop down, even if its due to a small patch of light we are looking at, we perceive it as "Bright".


If I shine the two above lights at an array of targets spread out in a fan pattern of various distance targets...the flood might light up 50 targets at one time, and the thrower might light up 2 of them, etc. - So, ask which light lets you SEE more, and the flooder wins, as it put out ~ 10x the light.


So the bottom line is that for most TASKS, a floody beam is just going to light up more at a time, allowing you to see more naturally. A throwy beam is going to make you look at what's going on through a small field of view at a time, as if you had tunnel vision....but its concentrated lumens will look "Brighter".




People who "grew up with" or have "calibrated" their idea of what a "normal" beam of light looks like, typically are used to very concentrated beams, and all of the light being in a relatively small circle. This is most often due to the historical lack of lumens, so that TO see anything, you HAD TO concentrate what you did have.

This can lead to people making blanket statements such as "Its impossible to read with 100 lumens, its too bright" - Because with the beam angles that they are used to, all 100 lumens in a teeny circle put too much LUX on the page, and it glared, etc.

If they had a floody beam, that 100 L would be spread out over a large area, and not be too bright at all.

In fact, as many many people read by ordinary incan light bulbs, which might be putting out closer to 1,000 L than to 100 L, its fairly obvious that the "100 L is too much to read by" people don't even realize that the more you spread the lumens out, the less glare you'll have....as to them, THEIR 100 L was too bright to read with, etc, and, to them, that's their baseline for comparison.

 

[gteague]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

i finally got to compare the sc600mk2 with the nitecore ec25 and there's just no contest--the nitecore just blows the zebralight away. at least inside shining them against some slightly off-white walls at 10-30'. now granted, your comparison of the 'concentrated' vs 'floody' certainly applies in the case. the sc600 has slightly more 'spread' whereas the ec25 has most of it's light concentrated in a small circle. in other words, if you were looking at a flat wall and wanted to see into each corner the sc200 seems to work better. the ec25 is so bright in the center that even if it did throw more light in the corners your attention is so drawn to the blazing spot in the center that it's hard to tear your gaze away.

so i have to conclude (as a true flashaholic always will!) that there is plenty of room to justify keeping both. for tactical use the ec25 is the clear choice with its blinding, focused, concentrated center core of cool white light, its momentary modes in the interface, and far superior 'random' strobe. the sc600 is quite a bit warmer and there is more 'spread' of the light. for walking in the dark the sc600 would be much better as you might see the snake that is lurking outside of that concentrated circle of light from the ec25. the sc600 is also more belt friendly, being shorter and without the oversized head of the ec25. weight comparison with battery is 173g for the ec25 and 130g for the sc600mk2.

[later edit: tks @howiezowie for pointing out my brain disconnect. at least i was consistent in my mistake! i can only plead that i hadn't been up very long (i work overnights) and the caffeine hadn't properly kicked in yet.]

/guy

 

[Howiezowie]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

We have been talking about the SC600 MkII, not a SC200, (Which doesn't exist.) You may want to edit your post to correct the references. Cheers.

 

[poonchasta]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

I just got a sc600 mkii to replace my sc60 as EDC. The M1 mode on the sc600 mkii is rated at 90 lumens, but when I compare it to the M1 mode on the sc60 rated at 42 lumens they look almost the same. Has anyone else noticed this? Did they just put the wrong lumen rating on it?

 

[TEEJ]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

I just got a sc600 mkii to replace my sc60 as EDC. The M1 mode on the sc600 mkii is rated at 90 lumens, but when I compare it to the M1 mode on the sc60 rated at 42 lumens they look almost the same. Has anyone else noticed this? Did they just put the wrong lumen rating on it?

You can't see lumens, so its not relevant.

If you are comparing the size of the hot spots and perceiving the amount of glare that makes your pupils stop down as relative to brightness, you are comparing lux. If you take the same lumens and spread them out thinner, you have less lux, and it looks dimmer.

This is why humans are SO poor at comparing the out put of lights...we really can't SEE what it is we are LOOKING FOR.

 

[melty]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

You can't see lumens, so its not relevant.

If you are comparing the size of the hot spots and perceiving the amount of glare that makes your pupils stop down as relative to brightness, you are comparing lux. If you take the same lumens and spread them out thinner, you have less lux, and it looks dimmer.

This is why humans are SO poor at comparing the out put of lights...we really can't SEE what it is we are LOOKING FOR.

Doing a ceiling bounce test is a pretty good way of approximating relative lumen output between two lights. You're still seeing lux, but it's cumulative lux created by indirect light, so the change in this lux number is going to be approximately the same as the change in lumens.

Even with the same hotspot, 90 lumens isn't going to appear all that much brighter than 42 lumens. With binning and manufacturing tolerances (regarding lumen ratings), plus Zebralight's history of ninja LED upgrades, there's no way to know what the actual output of a light is without individually measuring it.

 

[TEEJ]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

Doing a ceiling bounce test is a pretty good way of approximating relative lumen output between two lights. You're still seeing lux, but it's cumulative lux created by indirect light, so the change in this lux number is going to be approximately the same as the change in lumens.

Even with the same hotspot, 90 lumens isn't going to appear all that much brighter than 42 lumens. With binning and manufacturing tolerances (regarding lumen ratings), plus Zebralight's history of ninja LED upgrades, there's no way to know what the actual output of a light is without individually measuring it.

True, but we suck at lux too.



What I have found is that if I shine two lights at a wall, one has to be a lot brighter to tell, especially if the beam angles and proportions of hotspot to corona to spill are different....there's too many variables.

But, if I set up a series of targets in a fan shaped pattern with various distances, so that the full beam width and depth are illuminating targets, the one with even slightly more lumens will light up more total targets.


So, in real life, say if you are searching outside, or in a warehouse, etc, and you can see more of what's out there at a time, those extra lumens can actually make a difference.

If you are hunting white walls, or just want it to LOOK brighter...it has to be a lot brighter to notice.


Same on a bounce test.

The throwier lights will be bouncing back down from a more centralized spot, and the floodier lights will be bouncing down from a less centralized spot.

As most people bounce test with a meter right under the light aimed up at the ceiling, this will tend to favor throwier lights (Tighter focused beams).

I've seen light meters with bounce tests vary results for the same light by simply having some clothes hanging on something or not, the kitchen sink being full or empty, or different stuff laying on the kitchen table, and so forth.


So, if I compare a Mk1 to a MkII, I can tell the difference in targets lit up, and with a light meter, but, if I am only seeing the beam of ONE of them, with a new scene I have not shot before, without a chance to COMPARE the beams, I would have a hard time guessing which light the beam came from....I'd need a reference point to compare to have a shot at that.

That means I could buy a new one, and randomly turn it on, and not be able to tell it from the old one. It doesn't mean it wasn't worth it per se, because I'd see more STUFF with the new one, I just wouldn't know it unless I had reference points.



It might be like comparing two runners w/o stop watches.

John and Fred are both fast, but John does the mile in 3:50, and Fred does it in 4:20.

Without a stop watch, or seeing them side by side, or against other racers, you'd be hard pressed to say who was faster if you saw John run it at one track in January, and Fred run it on a different track in July.


John and Fred are out camping, and are charged by an enraged and famished Grizzly Bear coming at them from 100 yards away. They turn and run the other way as fast as they can. Would you rather be John, or Fred?


You could not tell the difference, but, it might matter anyway.

 

[gteague]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

<del>
If you are hunting white walls, or just want it to LOOK brighter...it has to be a lot brighter to notice.
<del>

given the criteria--brightest setting, same batteries same voltage, white(ish) walls, 10-30'--yes the (or at least, my) ec25 is definitely a _lot_ brighter than my sc600mk2, no contest.

at 15-20' and with the beam pointed at a 90º angle straight into the wall, the reflection from the ec25 actually hurts your eyes whereas the sc600mk2 allows you to see the entire wall surface without any strain. if you shine both lights at the same place it is nearly impossible to tell that the sc600mk2 is even on.

/guy

 

[TEEJ]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

given the criteria--brightest setting, same batteries same voltage, white(ish) walls, 10-30'--yes the (or at least, my) ec25 is definitely a _lot_ brighter than my sc600mk2, no contest.

at 15-20' and with the beam pointed at a 90º angle straight into the wall, the reflection from the ec25 actually hurts your eyes whereas the sc600mk2 allows you to see the entire wall surface without any strain. if you shine both lights at the same place it is nearly impossible to tell that the sc600mk2 is even on.

/guy

Correct, the tighter beam angle is perceived a being the brighter light.

I do the same demonstration with the SC600 and a 131 lumen maglight.

I shine them both at a wall, and everyone says the maglight is a lot brighter....as its 131 lumens are more concentrated.


I can flip that too, a 1,500 lumen mule against the 900 L SC600, and the SC600 is "brighter"


Essentially, if you have a tighter beam, it can look brighter...even if it has 1/10 the lumens of the floody light, and so forth.


Even the PROPORTION of hot spot to corona to spill makes a difference. If more of the lumens are in the hot spot, the light looks brighter at close range...as the eyes/brain add the size of the corona to it to boot. Spill is typically not counted in brightness, as its dim by comparison.

So a light with 90% of its 1,000 lumens in the corona/hotspot and 10% spill is essentially giving you a perceived 900 L hotspot/brightness impression.

If another light has 60% of its light in the corona/hotspot, and 40% spill, its essentially giving you a 600 L impression, and so forth.

 

[gteague]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

yep. and for that reason my conclusion in the earlier post still stands. the ec25 seems to make a much better tactical light whereas the sc600 would seem to have many advantages as a 'walking around actually wanting to see things more general purpose' light. and, unlike the ec25 it has some very useful low modes--the ec25 is seriously deficient in that regards as a tactical light needs a red option or a map reading mode.

at any rate, i am very glad that i have both of them.

/guy

 

[TEEJ]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

Its why I have both too.

 

[koubilaihan]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

Just received mine. What a great little light this is. As soon as I practice and learn the way to always start it in low mode, I can easily see it replacing my HDS (140 lm) as my EDC light. I am planning to keep my HDS in the bed stand in order to check the kids at night, walk around the house etc.
I can't wait for night to come to take it for a walk.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

2 cons for mk2, is it only me or anyone share the same.

The beam of mk2 next to the hot spot is abit to yellow. Compare to p25 which is whiter.

mk2

p25


I don't have sc600 but I do have sc52 and found out when clicking the button there is click sound in mk2 compare to silence click in sc52.

They must be using an awful BIN.

For instance, for my custom dropin I chose specifically the rather overlooked 3C BIN:

This is what it looks like. There's a hint of a rose-magenta at the edges and a gentle neutral off-white in the middle. Somewhat like the Nichia 219.

No way am I buying a light unless I see beams or I know exactly what BIN is being used.

 

[Romo Lampkin's Cat]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

even the 'brightest' of the lows is virtually undetectable unless you're looking at the light from the front or it reflects off something or (it goes without saying, you're in a dark enough room. i have the same problem with the 3 lumen mode of the tm26--it would be all too easy to think the light is off given the right circumstances.

I think this should be clarified for people considering the SC600 MkII. How "detectable" a light is depends entirely on the surrounding light and any surface off of which the flashlight's beam is reflecting. I've got an SC600 MkII in my pocket right now, sitting in my office chair in a room whose lighting level is normal for a commercial building. The brightest low setting's detectabiility is moot; I don't need a flashlight to illuminate objects that are already so brightly lit.

However, the "brightest" low mode is easily detectable in a dim room. I watch television on a projector in my basement, and the lights are off because the dimmer the room, the better the picture looks. Even with the projector on , the "brightest" low setting is detectable and after the PJ is turned off, the highest low setting quite bright indeed and I can easily see objects across the room. This is in a house that is never completely dark and with eyes that aren't truly night-adjusted. If I'm in my bedroom with night-adjusted eyes, the "brightest" low setting looks positively blazing, so much so that I usually switch to the secondary low mode that I've programmed. (I prefer the lowest setting.)

Whether the setting is useful (quite a different matter from detectable) is pure personal preference.

Accidently leaving the light on in the lowest setting falls nicely into the "of no consequence" bucket, since it is rated to run about 200 days on that setting. Accidentally leaving the light on turbo while inside your pocket, well, you'll know about that well before the five-minute stepdown occurs. Ask me how I know...

I was at the Outer Banks last week. One night I and my three youngs sons went looking for crabs. The SC600 Mk II is great fun in those circumstances. I don't doubt there are actually 900 lumens pouring out of it in turbo mode and even though it's not a thrower, you can see a loooooong way with this rascal, even at one of the lower "high" settings. The crabs stood no chance and even with the floody nature of this light I could still paint buildings several hundred feet away. It's so bright that I was careful not to shine it into the eyes of anybody who was walking toward us or who was sitting on the sand in the dark.

 

[crazyk4952]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

Accidentally leaving the light on turbo while inside your pocket, well, you'll know about that well before the five-minute stepdown occurs. Ask me how I know...

Sounds like there is an interesting story there...

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Re: ZebraLight SC600 MkII interface and tint observations

And just to clarify, in case Zebralight leadership is looking at these posts: Many, many of us LOVE THE LOW AND VERY LOW SETTINGS. This adds versatility to very bright lights. No longer must I carry a Photon Freedom or ReX Photon squeeze light when roving about with a Zebralight in hand, in order to have illumination suitable for navigation with night adapted eyes.

For those who can't see the lowest setting without looking into the beam, go to bed with your torch on the lowest low and maybe an hour later, open your eyes, get up and walk around inside a dark room. You will find it gives a nice amount of light that doesn't hurt the eyes. It is also a way to find your light if you need to set it down in the dark. As has been said, the energy use is minimal. Just keep the primary setting for low on the brightest, to help you see when it needs to be turned off, and... remember to turn off your light. Hopefully, many of you would agree? Other opinions?

 

[Nicola]

+1

I agree.

 

[Brown3ulie]

They have not been released yet. You can check Zebralights website, as it is normally accurate....