Armytek Wizard Pro Prototype Long-Term Testing

[RedForest UK]

I guess Armytekbased their run time numbers on keeping your head submerged under water for anhour and 5 minutes while wearing it. Clearlytheir numbers are correct then. Possiblyalso if you are mountain biking at minus 70 degrees with a stiff wind in theAntarctic.

Or in a slight breeze on a warm night. Anyway, the numbers reflect the efficiency, at least they aren't misrepresenting that with a stepdown and measuring runtime with almost the whole run at below max output.

Can you elaborate on your running experience, as others have asked me about this topic in the past (so that we have another data point). For the few runs that I took this headlamp I found it to be quite adequate for the job. Fairly steady in the headband with no flop. Good illumination at the 250 lm level.

Yes I was very impressed, the beam was great; perfect for illuminating everywhere that you need to see. The headstrap is really good too, much more secure than zebralight. For perspective the Wizard pro hardly moved at all, whilst even a smaller H51 with a fully tightened headstrap bounces so much as to be imo practically unusable.

I have settled on considering the OTF outputs as 5/35/100/200/420/820.

The 35 lumen mode was fine for walking, though I prefer the 100 lumen one generally for the sake of comfort (higher illumination giving faster processing speed and less effort when looking out for obstacles etc). 200 is good for running, with the 400 as a good bright mode when you want to see everything clearly.

The 820 lumen turbo mode was frankly just for fun, very impressive and gave the impression of daylight wherever you looked. This impression being aided I'm sure by the 5500k tint with what I consider noticably above average CRI for a cool tint.

I didn't encounter the stepdown from turbo mode even at walking pace for a few minutes, with virtually no breeze and temperatures which are about as hot as they get here at night (20 celsius).

 

[bradthebold]

There are no excuses for the thermal stepdown issue. The instructions say when the light flashes green that is the beginning of warning mode and you have another 15+˚C before you reach critical mode where the light steps down. Instead, the light is just stepping down at the beginning of warning mode, effecting eliminating any warning mode. If this was an intentional change, then that is absolutely being deceptive leaving the instructions saying what they say. What the instructions say and what actually happens and very different. 15˚C is a huge difference and apparently the difference between stepping down after 5 mins with no warning and never stepping down.

Saying to use a lower mode or hope there is a significant enough breeze outside are not solutions, they are excuses. The instructions say one thing and the light act significantly different. They are either being deceptive, too careless to change the instructions, or all of our lights are defective.

Even if you don't care about it stepping down, they eliminated the temperature warning mode too. Now you get no warning or any indication of how hot the light is, it just steps down as its first and only warning.

 

[RedForest UK]

All our lights are defective in that sense. They dropped the thermal stepdown to a lower level and forgot to also change the colour LED warnings. No excuse for that, but I'm sure it wasn't deliberate.

The lowering of the thermal stepdown level itself however is a different issue, and it is still high enough that the light won't drop out of turbo in normal usage (outdoors).

Just how big of a problem losing the colour warning LEDs is up to you.

 

[bradthebold]

All our lights are defective in that sense. They dropped the thermal stepdown to a lower level and forgot to also change the colour LED warnings. No excuse for that, but I'm sure it wasn't deliberate.

The lowering of the thermal stepdown level itself however is a different issue, and it is still high enough that the light won't drop out of turbo in normal usage (outdoors).

Just how big of a problem losing the colour warning LEDs is up to you.

That is assuming there's a significant enough wind outside when you want to use it. There isn't always a breeze so that the light will function. Even if, that's just another compromise. The light shouldn't step down until 80˚C under any external conditions. Even if you personally don't care that it steps down 15˚C lower than it claims, it is still performing significantly different than advertised.

 

[jonathanluu2]

mountains.....molehills......

Haha that reminds me of Crush from Finding Nemo. Speaking of mountains. Took the Wizard out on the bike trails and it illuminates the trails quite nicely. I will hopefully get on the trails this weekend and get some beamshots. I dont have a IR thermometer either, but I think i can give you a temperature comparison (Pardon my USA Units).

Ambient temperature: 80F and "humid" would be an understatement (although if my i correctly recall from heat transfer, humid air would be better for cooling a hot, dry object).

Scalding hot water for me is ~130F based on my past food services jobs.

I can grasp the light and tolerate the temperature (though it is approaching my limit) after it has been running at steady-state at 550 lumen mode (Mode 4) with no air flow. This supports KL's temperature tests.

After riding with the light on turbo for ~30 minutes I grasped the headlamp and it was about the same temperature as it running on Mode 4. This tells me that the Turbo can easily run until the battery is exhausted without "thermal intervention". Cant really tell you the speed I was going, but I am not decrepit :)

petr, I think this light will serve your function as a bike light.

 

[Knight_Light]

Sure, and I think the majority of us here are appreciative of the work you've done.

Thank you for the acknowledgment. :)

The 250lm setting is very nice.
I'd maybe like to see something in between 7 and 30 but overall, the choice of levels seems pretty good. I haven't had much chance to use it outdoors for anything useful yet however.

When I was discussing with Armytek switching mode 2 from 70 lm to something higher so that there would be a more perceived level between mode 1 and mode 2 they enlightened me on some of the limiting factors to choosing light levels.

If I understood correctly it goes something like this. When designing the electrical circuit for this headlamp you can’t just pick whatever level you want for a particular mode. The choices are limited to certain ratios based on the other output levels. So in my case the next choice was 115 lm they could not have made it 100 or 125.

So if they put a level between 7 and 30 you would have to sacrifice one of the other levels.

 

[Knight_Light]

I have settled on considering the OTF outputs as 5/35/100/200/420/820.

I could live with those numbers. :)

The 35 lumen mode was fine for walking, though I prefer the 100 lumen one generally for the sake of comfort (higher illumination giving faster processing speed and less effort when looking out for obstacles etc). 200 is good for running, with the 400 as a good bright mode when you want to see everything clearly.

I really wish I had the 115 lm mode. Unfortunately mine is 70 lm and is almost indistinguishable from mode 1. :(

This impression being aided I'm sure by the 5500k tint with what I consider noticably above average CRI for a cool tint.

+1

 

[Knight_Light]

All our lights are defective in that sense.

Not mine. :)

They dropped the thermal stepdown to a lower level and forgot to also change the colour LED warnings. No excuse for that, but I'm sure it wasn't deliberate.

+1

 

[ArcticHighlander]

I'm sorry you seem to be so unhappy with your purchase.
Seriously dude - mountains.....molehills......

There is a big difference between the advertised 1hr 6min and 5min actual at normal temperatures/conditions. Armytek advertised this run time, Knight Light tested the preproduction light and confirmed that it worked this long in a normal indoor environment, and Armytek continues to advertise this run time. It is supposed to work as advertised under the normal range of temperatures that a head lamp would be expected to be used. Using your logic a watch claimed to be accurate would meet its specs even if it didn't work at all; it's still very accurate twice a day and they didn't specifically claim anything more.

 

[RedForest UK]

There is a big difference between the advertised 1hr 6min and 5min actual at normal temperatures/conditions. Armytek advertised this run time, Knight Light tested the preproduction light and confirmed that it worked this long in a normal indoor environment, and Armytek continues to advertise this run time. It is supposed to work as advertised under the normal range of temperatures that a head lamp would be expected to be used. Using your logic a watch claimed to be accurate would meet its specs even if it didn't work at all; it's still very accurate twice a day and they didn't specifically claim anything more.

No, that doesn't make sense. Firstly, I would consider 'normal' temperatures/conditions for turbo to be used as being outside (and probably moving quite fast to need that much light), in which case it isn't a problem.

Secondly, the light does not have a 5 minute runtime on turbo, it genuinely does have a 1hr 5 minute runtime. It just also has thermal protection, which is a completely different issue.

No manufacturer rates runtime with account of external factors such as temperature, but in ideal conditions. Many even have a timed stepdown at a set time which always kicks in, they then run it in one go and give a runtime based on the 5 minutes of turbo and the majority of the runtime at a much lower level. Armytek haven't done that, they have listed the actual genuine time for which this light will run in turbo mode before the battery is drained. The fact that sometimes thermal protection will kick in before that is irrelevant with regards to runtime.

The watch analogy is in no way representative of this situation.

 

[petr9999]

knight, want to trade? :D

for the reason of tailstading on max, i first found out when i was soldering something and the light in the room was kind of dim... i took my new flashlight and lit up the ceiling with the whole room(yes i could have used it as a headlamp, but i didnt want to!)

i just went rockclimbing, and used it for around 20mins at max in a cool cave with no issues, it was very warm to touch at the end but not hot.

Recap: The light is perfectly usable, but is missing a feature, high temperature warning, it would also make a lot more sense if it stepped down to 550lumens instead of 100lm

 

[Knight_Light]

knight, want to trade?

Negative ghostwriter, I like having one-of-a-kind. :)

i just went rockclimbing, and used it for around 20mins at max in a cool cave with no issues, it was very warm to touch at the end but not hot.

I rock climb and I could not imagine using more then the 250 lm setting, unless maybe you are belaying in an awkward situation. If you are doing big wall climbing and are route spotting you would need a thrower anyway.

 

[petr9999]

i didnt use it for the actual climbing, but the cave climbed into, it was around 300m long, and pitch dark

 

[Trevtrain]

No, that doesn't make sense. Firstly, I would consider 'normal' temperatures/conditions for turbo to be used as being outside (and probably moving quite fast to need that much light), in which case it isn't a problem.

Secondly, the light does not have a 5 minute runtime on turbo, it genuinely does have a 1hr 5 minute runtime. It just also has thermal protection, which is a completely different issue.

No manufacturer rates runtime with account of external factors such as temperature, but in ideal conditions. Many even have a timed stepdown at a set time which always kicks in, they then run it in one go and give a runtime based on the 5 minutes of turbo and the majority of the runtime at a much lower level. Armytek haven't done that, they have listed the actual genuine time for which this light will run in turbo mode before the battery is drained. The fact that sometimes thermal protection will kick in before that is irrelevant with regards to runtime.

The watch analogy is in no way representative of this situation.

+100

These points have been explained several times now but Arctichighlander, for whatever his own personal reasons, can't or won't acknowledge them.

Flogging........dead horse........

In the interests of harmony in the thread I plan to just let this particular battle go. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[RedForest UK]

Ok, I've just taken my Wizard pro out for a half hour walk to learn more about the stepdown behaviour. It was 18 degrees celcius ambient with little to no breeze.

When walking at a gentle pace the light held turbo mode for a good 20 minutes, then when I stopped for under a minute it dropped down to the '100' lumen mode (interestingly I confirmed that this mode is below the Main 2 '115 lumen' 100 OTF level, and so OTF is likely to be around 80). I actually didn't find the drop to be so much that it was hard to see with the 100 lumen mode, that was better than I'd imagined, and the low level allowed a quick return to turbo. However a drop to the Main 3 of 200/'250' lumens would be preferable and a good compromise imo.

After that, a return to walking maintained turbo for another few minutes before it dropped out and back a couple more times. At that point I switched down to Main 4 400/'550' lumens and that was fine for the rest of the walk. Personally I actually prefer to use Main 4 with the turbo in reserve as a decent selective boost in power when it is needed. I find that my eyes adjust to the 400 and 820 modes so much that they are virtually indistinguishable when on constantly in terms of actual usefulness for seeing things. However, when adjusted to the 400/'550' mode, a sudden boost up to 820/'1010' lumens gives a welcome increase in power if used for a short period. The click, click, hold mechanism for temporarily activating turbo from whatever mode previously used is very useful for using the light in this way.

When the light did step down, it was hot enough that I wouldn't want to cycle through the modes on it, but a quick double click was fine. I personally would have preferred for them to have dropped the critical level to somewhere a bit higher, and of course to have dropped the colour LEDs warning indicator levels in line with this; perhaps 70 celsius as critical and all colour LEDs 10 below the levels still mentioned on the instruction booklet.

Overall, I'm not too frustrated with what Armytek have done, but think it could be better. If they do 'fix' it then I may consider getting a replacement, but it may not really be worth the hassle of sending it back to them for the purposes of general use.

 

[Trevtrain]

Ok, I've just taken my Wizard pro out for a half hour walk to learn more about the stepdown behaviour. It was 18 degrees celcius ambient with little to no breeze.

When walking at a gentle pace the light held turbo mode for a good 20 minutes, then when I stopped for under a minute it dropped down to the '100' lumen mode

So with a little airflow it performed OK but with none at all it quickly heated up. My outdoor test at the same ambient temperature was tailstanding - I am assuming yours was mounted in the headband which I would expect to impede the cooling a bit.

......I actually didn't find the drop to be so much that it was hard to see with the 100 lumen mode, that was better than I'd imagined, and the low level allowed a quick return to turbo. However a drop to the Main 3 of 200/'250' lumens would be preferable and a good compromise imo.

Yes, they do seem to have been overly conservative in forcing it to drop this low. A drop to something a little higher than 100lm would certainly be preferable.

After that, a return to walking maintained turbo for another few minutes before it dropped out and back a couple more times. At that point I switched down to Main 4 400/'550' lumens and that was fine for the rest of the walk.

So it does need a breeze at something more than walking pace to cope properly on Max. Again, with the headband probably contributing to the heating.

Personally I actually prefer to use Main 4 with the turbo in reserve as a decent selective boost in power when it is needed. I find that my eyes adjust to the 400 and 820 modes so much that they are virtually indistinguishable when on constantly in terms of actual usefulness for seeing things.

Which is inline with what the "low lumen lovers" have been saying all along about how the eyes simply adjust to the amount of light present and we are effectively just wasting power. Having done a few little jobs outside last night myself, I would think that even the Main 4 would be far too high for most general walking about. It really lights up a huge area even at that setting. Of course it will depend on other factors such as ambient light and how far you need to see.
(But I still can't imagine being comfortable with under 30 - Main 1 - in anything but the darkest of conditions.)

I personally would have preferred for them to have dropped the critical level to somewhere a bit higher, and of course to have dropped the colour LEDs warning indicator levels in line with this; perhaps 70 celsius as critical and all colour LEDs 10 below the levels still mentioned on the instruction booklet.

Agreed. They seemed to overlooked this and perhaps "rushed" the final production version out in response to our many requests and "are we there yet" nagging over in CPFM. Functionally the light performs as well as I expected as a light but the temperature warning issues documented here do detract slightly from the overall package.

Overall, I'm not too frustrated with what Armytek have done, but think it could be better. If they do 'fix' it then I may consider getting a replacement, but it may not really be worth the hassle of sending it back to them for the purposes of general use.

Well, for me, the cost of return postage will make this a non-issue unless Armytek offers to cover it. In fairness, I wouldn't really expect this but others may see it differently. I'm aware that the testing on the pre-production model doesn't match exactly with what I got but I guess that's always the risk of being an "early adopter" in any technology.

 

[RedForest UK]

So with a little airflow it performed OK but with none at all it quickly heated up. My outdoor test at the same ambient temperature was tailstanding - I am assuming yours was mounted in the headband which I would expect to impede the cooling a bit.

Well I would say that it was getting hot at walking pace, but remaining just below the threshold for temperature protection, so when I stopped that just pushed it over the edge. I think if the threshold had been 5 degrees higher then it may not have reached it. Yes, it was mounted on the headband, which I agree will slightly insulate the body.

Yeah, the Main 4 level is really too high for just walking about. It's even effective at impressing as much as the turbo mode if your eyes are adjusted even slightly to the dark, whilst retaining the turbo in reserve :)

In all honesty, 18 celsius at night is rare here and only seen for a couple of weeks at most each summer. The rest of the time you are looking at sub 10 and often sub 0 temperatures past 10pm, so for most of the year I don't think thermal stepdown will be anything to bother about.

 

[psychbeat]

Any word on the neutral/warms?

I gues I could look over @cpfmp...

 

[RedForest UK]

I have settled on considering the OTF outputs as 5/35/100/200/420/820.

Ok, having found my previous ceiling bounce placements lacking (with regards to bias dependent upon beam profile), I have today re-tested all the lights I have to hand (40 of them with varying beam profiles) in a new position which I think has eliminated any such bias.

After that testing the Wizard Pro's OTF output ratings that I have come to are: 6.4/41.6/108.8/201.6/428.8/880, so about 6.5/40/110/200/430/880.

I apologise for any confusion caused by the continued revision of these numbers, but I am now happy and confident in the ones given in this post.

 

[Trevtrain]

Ok, having found my previous ceiling bounce placements lacking (with regards to bias dependent upon beam profile), I have today re-tested all the lights I have to hand (40 of them with varying beam profiles) in a new position which I think has eliminated any such bias.

Now when you make a statement like that you just gotta know someone's gonna ask you to publish results don't you? :laughing: