Armytek Wizard Pro Prototype Long-Term Testing

[Knight_Light]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

(Platypus makes an awesome hydration pack btw. Fantastic.)

1st​ of all thank you for a wonderful post it is very informative and the pictures I feel do justice to the headlamp (although I personally do not notice a greenish tint on the low firefly). As far as the platypus hydration pack I would have to give it a thumbs down. They do make some very good flat water bottles though and a wine bladder. :)

 

[Knight_Light]

jonathanluu2, check the mark your ring made on the light. From my experience, the anodizing doesn't actually scratch, it scrapes off part of the SS. I use the clip regularly and you can see where the clip material has become embedded in the ano texture.

As I reported in earlier posts the pocket clip could have been designed better and most definitely scratches off the anodizing. It also happens fairly quickly I noticed marks after the 1st time installing and then removing the pocket clip. To me though it's not that big of a deal as it is merely cosmetic.

 

[Lampyridae]

Have you read this entire thread? http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Term-Testing&p=4246010&viewfull=1#post4246010

I tested it at 18C ambient temperature in an outdoor tailstanding test with a fair breeze and ran it for 30 mins with no problems at all. The only reason I cut the test short was I was getting tired of sitting out there in the middle of the night.
I have no IR thermometer but periodic brief "gripping" of the light gave no indication of further temperature increase after the 15 min mark.

Running it in a glass of water is NOT required.



Like someone else in here, it appears you do not properly understand the specs. The "constant brightness" refers to the fact that output is regulated and does not drop as the battery voltage decreases. This is completely independent of the thermal stepdown feature. This discussion has been done to death and can be found in previous posts.



I think you need to grab a coffee, sit down and read the entire thread. Changes between the pre-production models Knight_Light reviewed and production versions shipped to customers like you and I have been clearly documented. I'm sorry but your statement makes no sense.

So you managed to push it up to 30 mins. Good for you, but I asked something else. Also, forgret about 18°C in southern europe these days and nights.

I am reading this thread from the day 1. Constant brightnes is constant in all modes except in turbo mode because thermal protection kicks in after 5-6 minutes and doesn't allow the light to show its full potential through regulated output without output dropping as voltage decreases. It doesn't matter to me if its thermal protection or timer protection, like on some other brands. Fact is that after 5-6 minutes, instead of constant light in turbo mode, I get 3rd low. freq. strobo mode. I understood thermal protection exactly as it was explained in this thread. As something what will kick in under some circumstances (80°C), but with warning notice first. Instead of that, I got lamp which works in turbo mode more than 5 minutes only under some circumstances like water, bike riding... If you new all about that when you purchased yours (before some posts here) - congratulations!

I don't drink coffe. Changes between prototype and production version were not clearly documented on Armytek pages or on this thread when I purchased mine. After lens O-ring imperfections, after lockup issue, after decreasing thermal protection temp without any warning before as it is stated in my manual I feel fooled.

Wizard Pro Limited XM-L2 U3 cost me 165$ (with all additional costs I had to pay - part of it to FedEx agent here)

Cheers!

 

[beamon]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Your idea is a good one and has been implemented by other manufacturers to solve the unknown runtime dilemma. Magnetic or rheostatic switchers are a lot more prone to failure especially in dirty and muddy environments. Since most headlamps see outdoor use of one kind or another it is probably a bad idea for reliability of the headlamp.

Thanks for your comment. Because I'm unaware of any high-quality headlamp manufacturer other than Surefire that uses a metal rheostatic device to control light levels, and because I don't see anything on the Surefire CPF thread that complains about breakdowns in mud, I respectfully question your response on whether a notched rheostatic ring would be a good idea for headlamps. I can see that it's too late for Armytek to incorporate such a ring in its design of the WizardPros, but it's obvious to me, from reading this thread, that Armytek has quixotically overstepped the limits of what can be done with a single button to control all aspects of headlamp use.

 

[EsthetiX]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Sits nicely on my bike bars. Perfect flood for night trails

 

[Trevtrain]

So you managed to push it up to 30 mins. Good for you, but I asked something else. Also, forgret about 18°C in southern europe these days and nights.

Fair enough. You asked if anyone had managed to get an hour of turbo under any circumstances. I don't recall you mentioning Southern Europe in July. I apologise for not waiting until summer here and sitting outside for another half hour just for you.

I am reading this thread from the day 1. Constant brightnes is constant in all modes except in turbo mode because thermal protection kicks in after 5-6 minutes and doesn't allow the light to show its full potential through regulated output without output dropping as voltage decreases. It doesn't matter to me if its thermal protection or timer protection, like on some other brands. Fact is that after 5-6 minutes, instead of constant light in turbo mode, I get 3rd low. freq. strobo mode. I understood thermal protection exactly as it was explained in this thread. As something what will kick in under some circumstances (80°C), but with warning notice first. Instead of that, I got lamp which works in turbo mode more than 5 minutes only under some circumstances like water, bike riding... If you new all about that when you purchased yours (before some posts here) - congratulations!

(Notwithstanding that a tailstanding test with no airflow on the maximum output is hardly representative of "typical use" for most people..........)

Again, it's down to your interpretation I guess. We could debate semantics as has already been done in previous posts but I really don't see the point. Rather than concentrating on what you "think" the specs meant perhaps you could look at the laws of physics for a moment.
Can you show me ANY light with a similar surface area pushing 1000 LED lumens that won't suffer thermal issues in a tailstanding test on Turbo with no airflow?
You state that you understood thermal protection so I am assuming you also understand why it is needed.

I agree that they cocked up the warning indicator on the production model. I was expecting to see colour changes as well.

I don't drink coffe. Changes between prototype and production version were not clearly documented on Armytek pages or on this thread when I purchased mine. After lens O-ring imperfections, after lockup issue, after decreasing thermal protection temp without any warning before as it is stated in my manual I feel fooled.

I wouldn't expect changes between the pre-production model and the production version to appear on Armytek's pages. I don't think any manufacturer makes a common practice of releasing what is in essence "internal developmental information" to the buying public. There was quite a bit of chatter over at CPFMarketplace though.
You are correct - changes have been only been documented here since we started recieving our production versions. I guess it depends on when you ordered.

The O-ring issue was only in one case I've seen so far. Lens imperfections have shown up several times. Both show flaws in the final QA processes.
The lockups are widespread and the indicator issue is also well-documented. A firmware solution is being developed for these at present.

Yes, software bugs are annoying but I guess we can be thankful that this light wasn't built by Microsoft.

Wizard Pro Limited XM-L2 U3 cost me 165$ (with all additional costs I had to pay - part of it to FedEx agent here)

That sucks - I can understand why you are unhappy.
I also wonder about the cost of returning it to Armytek.

 

[psychbeat]

I don't really see why these need thermal protection at all.

What's turbo ~3a?
The only time I've had issues with heat damaging a light (and most of mine are WAYY overdriven) is from an almost TOTALLY un-sinked p60 pill with 2XPG driven @2.8a.
I ran it for months like that - many times for 40-60min. (Using 4 18650 in parallel)
When I finally removed the lens & the pill one of the emitters slid off as the solder had become brittle from so many heat cycles.

Anyways, my point is even with the minimal mass these lights are not overdriven so there shouldn't be a problem running them on max for a full cells worth.

It's not going to hurt the emitter- xml2 can take 6+amps if mounted on copper PCB.

The non stepdown is what really got me excited about one of these over an H600W.

 

[Trevtrain]

I don't really see why these need thermal protection at all.

What's turbo ~3a?
The only time I've had issues with heat damaging a light (and most of mine are WAYY overdriven) is from an almost TOTALLY un-sinked p60 pill with 2XPG driven @2.8a.
I ran it for months like that - many times for 40-60min. (Using 4 18650 in parallel)
When I finally removed the lens & the pill one of the emitters slid off as the solder had become brittle from so many heat cycles.

Anyways, my point is even with the minimal mass these lights are not overdriven so there shouldn't be a problem running them on max for a full cells worth.

It's not going to hurt the emitter- xml2 can take 6+amps if mounted on copper PCB.

The non stepdown is what really got me excited about one of these over an H600W.

I was pretty impressed when I read Knight_Light's initial testing too. However, I was a little concerned at the long-term effects of so much heat on the emitter and electronics.

Maybe you are correct and damage to the light is unlikely at these temperatures but there could be another reason.

My initial indoor tailstanding test resulted in stepdown at around the 5 min mark. At that time, the head of the light was so hot that it was painful to hold - and I have fairly tough old hands. If Knight-Light's pre-production version got to 10-15 degrees C higher, it must have been fearsome.

What do you suppose would happen if a child picked up the light at these temperatures? Or an unsuspecting adult with a penchant for lawsuits? I doubt that simply printing "Caution - Hot Surface" would be enough to safeguard them from legal and saftey issues in a world where someone can sue McDonalds for not telling them that their hot coffee was hot.

This is small light designed to be strapped to the forehead. Even the uneducated can be reasonably expected not to put their hands on a boiliing kettle, but who else but a flashaholic would know not to pick up a flashight sitting on a table during a blackout?

 

[psychbeat]

I was pretty impressed when I read Knight_Light's initial testing too. However, I was a little concerned at the long-term effects of so much heat on the emitter and electronics.

Maybe you are correct and damage to the light is unlikely at these temperatures but there could be another reason.

My initial indoor tailstanding test resulted in stepdown at around the 5 min mark. At that time, the head of the light was so hot that it was painful to hold - and I have fairly tough old hands. If Knight-Light's pre-production version got to 10-15 degrees C higher, it must have been fearsome.

What do you suppose would happen if a child picked up the light at these temperatures? Or an unsuspecting adult with a penchant for lawsuits? I doubt that simply printing "Caution - Hot Surface" would be enough to safeguard them from legal and saftey issues in a world where someone can sue McDonalds for not telling them that their hot coffee was hot.

This is small light designed to be strapped to the forehead. Even the uneducated can be reasonably expected not to put their hands on a boiliing kettle, but who else but a flashaholic would know not to pick up a flashight sitting on a table during a blackout?

Yah...maybe I need to stick with modded/custom lights. . .

I still doubt a single cell light can get hot enough to cause burns from just picking it up.

None of my overdriven lights have burnt me although they do get hot enough to make you drop em like a hot potato if u grab em by the head.

Never scalded the skin tho. ;)

I don't want to debate liability & take the thread off topic - I can easily imagine lawsuits... Ugh.

Converting my spark 460nw to a standard p60 driver requires the switch to be removed and the UI operated by twisting the tailcap on & off.
Kind of cumbersome with more than two modes + I hate the floppy holder.

Was hoping this light might be the answer for a small hi-ish powered HL for backpacking & backup/loaner bike light.

If the light stepped down while riding a technical trail the results could be VERY bad.

 

[Lampyridae]

Can you show me ANY light with a similar surface area pushing 1000 LED lumens that won't suffer thermal issues in a tailstanding test on Turbo with no airflow?

Yes I can. I think prototype version of this light is close enough. Also, I must say once more this has nothing to do with Knight_lights testing. He did his testing as good as he could with pre-production sample he got from Armytek. After comparing his results (no therm. protect. kick in under 80°C) with official PDF manual on Armytek page, there was only one conclusion possible for me as a buyer and it has nothing to do with what I "think".
Anyway, thank you for your explanations and participation in this debate. To be honest with you, I don't use turbo all the time. I use 250lm (it's 267 on my model) level and it is enough for my regular use, but when I need the highest possible output I can't be sure if I'm gonna need it for 2, for 5 or for 35 minutes and in what circumstances.

Thera are lots of posts explaining good things about this light and I just wanted to balance it because of issues I have. Not to be peevish, I can also confirm that lamp is solid build, I personally like UI and it took me 10 minutes to get into it. The 70/120 model I have is perfect combination that suits my needs and I really like those TIR lenses. Also, thumbs up for Armitek service. I allways got replay from Sandra in an hour or two, but we shall see how will they manage this issues I have...

 

[petr9999]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

try getting one of those paralel holders, it looks much nicer!!!

Sits nicely on my bike bars. Perfect flood for night trails

 

[jonathanluu2]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

As far as the platypus hydration pack I would have to give it a thumbs down. They do make some very good flat water bottles though and a wine bladder. :)

Sad! Perhaps we have different uses/wants from our packs. I will definitely agree on your latter recommendations!

[stuff]...quixotically...[more stuff i wasnt paying attention to]

sorry, I laughed when I saw that word. Never read it in my life and it sounded funny. I had to look it up. Someone did well on their EOG's/SAT's/OWL's.

Back on subject!:twak:

I would think that it would be very difficult to argue that one was a victim of Armytek's hot lights. I mean i can at least see that the lady who got hot coffee on her couldnt do anything about it once it was on her, whereas a hot light can be instantly dropped, whacked, shuffled, swatted away. Perhaps I give humanity too much credit? I guess too much is better than the opposite.

 

[Knight_Light]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Thanks for your comment. Because I'm unaware of any high-quality headlamp manufacturer other than Surefire that uses a metal rheostatic device to control light levels, and because I don't see anything on the Surefire CPF thread that complains about breakdowns in mud, I respectfully question your response on whether a notched rheostatic ring would be a good idea for headlamps. I can see that it's too late for Armytek to incorporate such a ring in its design of the WizardPros, but it's obvious to me, from reading this thread, that Armytek has quixotically overstepped the limits of what can be done with a single button to control all aspects of headlamp use.

There are several headlamp manufacturer’s that use either rheostatic or magnetic to control light level outputs (NITEYE HA30 for example). And as far as lights go in general there are a ton of manufacturers that incorporate this type of light level control. If you research flashlights instead of headlamps you will find enough information, that with time these types of controls need servicing, even if it is cleaning (which is oftentimes impossible due to design limitations). If you want to test the reliability of any such light just take it into a caving environment (one of the most demanding in my opinion) and do some hard-core caving, you will soon see which lights last and which ones start to fail over a period of time (mud has a strange way of working itself into the strangest of places).

 

[Knight_Light]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Sad! Perhaps we have different uses/wants from our packs. I will definitely agree on your latter recommendations!

For me they just don’t manage the internal space well. Check out Osprey they make some pretty awesome packs for the money and the best hydration bladder (in my opinion, it’s all relative as I’ve yet to see a perfect hydration bladder). Arc'teryx coupled with an Osprey hydration bladder is also a great combination. :)

 

[cronus]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Update from Armytek. I asked about the next steps and Sandra told me to ship the light back to China the "cheapest way possible" and let her know when it is sent.
The firmware lockup issue should be fixed by the time the light gets there.
Once the light arrives, they will send a new one back (in another email it was stated that my light would be fixed and sent back; doesn't matter to me).
They will reimburse my postage up to $15. Untracked Air Mail to China for me is right around $11.
I have asked about the unlikely scenario where the light gets lost in transit without a tracking number. I'll keep you posted on that one.
I'll probably send it out on Monday. The sooner it goes out, the sooner I can get it back.

 

[beamon]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

There are several headlamp manufacturer’s that use either rheostatic or magnetic to control light level outputs (NITEYE HA30 for example). And as far as lights go in general there are a ton of manufacturers that incorporate this type of light level control. If you research flashlights instead of headlamps you will find enough information, that with time these types of controls need servicing, even if it is cleaning (which is oftentimes impossible due to design limitations). If you want to test the reliability of any such light just take it into a caving environment (one of the most demanding in my opinion) and do some hard-core caving, you will soon see which lights last and which ones start to fail over a period of time (mud has a strange way of working itself into the strangest of places).

NITEYE HA30 uses a notches-only ring, without the smooth continuous adjustment available to a Surefire Minimus. I'm recommending a smooth rheostatic ring, with several little notches along the way that can be felt to gauge the lumen levels, from zero to whatever, for a user making adjustments in the dark. Also, I don't see complaints on the CPF thread about the NITEYE HA30 breaking down in muddy conditions. I'm not sure what your sources of information are about widespread experience with rheostatic flashlights vs button-only ones becoming dysfunctional from muddy use. Are there really any statistics on this?

 

[bradthebold]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Update from Armytek. I asked about the next steps and Sandra told me to ship the light back to China the "cheapest way possible" and let her know when it is sent.
The firmware lockup issue should be fixed by the time the light gets there.
Once the light arrives, they will send a new one back (in another email it was stated that my light would be fixed and sent back; doesn't matter to me).
They will reimburse my postage up to $15. Untracked Air Mail to China for me is right around $11.
I have asked about the unlikely scenario where the light gets lost in transit without a tracking number. I'll keep you posted on that one.
I'll probably send it out on Monday. The sooner it goes out, the sooner I can get it back.

How long is the estimate for you for shipping? I was told the same thing with a mix of fixing the light and receiving a new one. I'm still in the return period at least, and she would not send me a new light before I sent mine back, so I'll have to be without the light for weeks(?) because of a manufacturer defect. That's stupid.

I also asked whether the warning system has been fixed/changed yet, but have not received a reply. I want everything fixed before I send my light away. Plus saying it should be fixed by the time the light gets there is not very encouraging. They were blaming people about misusing the light at first, so I don't have the most confidence they know what they're doing. I'll wait until there's a definite solution already in place for the lockouts and warning system.

 

[psychbeat]

NITEYE HA30 uses a notches-only ring, without the smooth continuous adjustment available to a Surefire Minimus. I'm recommending a smooth rheostatic ring, with several little notches along the way that can be felt to gauge the lumen levels, from zero to whatever, for a user making adjustments in the dark. Also, I don't see complaints on the CPF thread about the NITEYE HA30 breaking down in muddy conditions. I'm not sure what your sources of information are about widespread experience with rheostatic flashlights vs button-only ones becoming dysfunctional from muddy use. Are there really any statistics on this?

Idk- anything that twists with fine adjustment sounds like a potential failure point to me.

Some headlamps(Stenlight) use a magnetic system but that can affect other instruments.

Just saying - I don't have any so I'm just being critical with no personal experience ;)

I'm super hard on my lights tho & tend to break stuff in the field

ie. I crash a lot :) :)

It's too bad lights with electronic switches like these are so hard to do driver mods on.
I wonder if there's a way to reprogram the driver by the user?

 

[Trevtrain]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

I'm still in the return period at least,

If the warranty is 10 years, what do you mean by the return period?

I also asked whether the warning system has been fixed/changed yet, but have not received a reply. I want everything fixed before I send my light away. Plus saying it should be fixed by the time the light gets there is not very encouraging. ...........I'll wait until there's a definite solution already in place for the lockouts and warning system.

AFAIK from CPFMP threads, the engineers are still developing the fix. Fixing the lockout has been mentioned as the priority issue but if anyone has not been over there (marketplace) I strongly suggest you have a look.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...mytek-wizard&p=4768751&viewfull=1#post4768751

There are seven issues/suggestions Armytek are "trying to realize" in the new firmware. Not only are they looking to address the lockup and thermal indicator but are also trying to incorporate a few other changes based on requests from CPF (and other forums) members.

Like you Brad, I can live with the current issues in my light for a little while and would also prefer to wait until I can see the results of the new firmware after reports start coming in from those who get it. I understand that others may want or need a fix ASAP.

The whole business is certainly inconvenient but to be fair they are addressing the issues and responding to customer feedback. At this point they have acknowledged the faults and are "making it right" (apparently even including offering assistance with return postage?)
I am much more impressed with the way this is being handled than I am with the "wall-of-silence" approach adopted by a certain other company with switch boot problems.

 

[ArcticHighlander]

Re: Proposed New Armytek Wizard Pro UI:

Update from Armytek. I asked about the next steps and Sandra told me to ship the light back to China the "cheapest way possible" and let her know when it is sent.
The firmware lockup issue should be fixed by the time the light gets there.
Once the light arrives, they will send a new one back (in another email it was stated that my light would be fixed and sent back; doesn't matter to me).
They will reimburse my postage up to $15. Untracked Air Mail to China for me is right around $11.
I have asked about the unlikely scenario where the light gets lost in transit without a tracking number. I'll keep you posted on that one.
I'll probably send it out on Monday. The sooner it goes out, the sooner I can get it back.

Sent mine today via USPS Int. 1st Class w/tracking. Was $9.45 plus about $6 gas, addressing & packaging, 1 hour driving time, waiting in line, filling out customs form. My FastTech battery order shipped from Hong Kong using this method and took one week. I looked up FedEx economy for the same 2.8oz that I weighed my return package at and they wanted $90.40