Modern. 380 rounds vs 9mm

[dc38]

Thanks for the education, guys. Maybe ya'll should let Smith & Wesson know, too. Seems they got it all wrong. They'll probably offer you a job.

Many people would prefer a balance of form and function...something about ported slides and fluted barrels just screams "buy me"...I suppose most people also aren't getting into tussle distance shooting either, so they wouldn't think about revolver-esque flash burning them...On a shorter barrel like the bodyguard, though...why?

 

[dc38]

There is no point. Sig isn’t responsible for poor holster choices. The pistol is safe and never fires unless you half press a trigger. THEN you press a slide to a frame and…

Glock does absolutely the same:

Warranty culture might just be destroying preventative engineering/design

 

[vadimax]

And @Monocrom,

Why not?

They are absolutely useless unless you are a competitive shooter and want to shave off that pesky 0.02 sec off your splits timing.

Usually what ports do the best is making a dirty mess of your gun way faster than not ported one.

 

[vadimax]

Honestly, if you carry with one in the pipe, an auto-pistol's design should absolutely prevent a negative discharge. Doesn't matter whose holster you use. If the design doesn't, than the pistol model is dangerously flawed. It's not just one or two cases with that SIG model. It's literally too many to count at this point. With too many lives lost. The P320's designer should be tossed into prison for Negligent Homicide at this point. This pistol would be an absolute joke, if it didn't cost lives.

Who is guilty if people are Darwin award “winners”? The gun does not fire UNLESS you mess with a trigger:

1.

2.

This kind of people is the reason shampoo bottles have a record “do not drink”…

 

[vadimax]

Warranty culture might just be destroying preventative engineering/design

Just NEVER use holsters with retention elements inside a trigger guard. It is the most stupid and most dangerous holster design in the universe.

 

[Monocrom]

Btw i no longer own a gun due to i live in a safe place thanks god

Sorry Old friend, that doesn't mean anything. Violent career criminals have cars, they love "safe" neighborhoods where no one locks their doors.

 

[Monocrom]

Thanks for the education, guys. Maybe ya'll should let Smith & Wesson know, too. Seems they got it all wrong. They'll probably offer you a job.

They couldn't afford me.

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

Tough crowd. I thought sure that post would garner a few ha ha's.

 

[Monocrom]

Who is guilty if people are Darwin award “winners”? The gun does not fire UNLESS you mess with a trigger:

1.

2.

This kind of people is the reason shampoo bottles have a record “do not drink”…

Sorry, but there are numerous documented cases of trained, career police officers who experienced that very thing. These weren't stupid men screwing around with their newly-issued sidearms. I tell my students to steer clear of SIG. I also tell them to steer clear of Canik, for political reasons. But I admit they make mechanically functional and reliable guns.... Back when I was a teenager, I remember when SIG used to do that, to an extreme degree.

 

[dc38]

Who is guilty if people are Darwin award “winners”? The gun does not fire UNLESS you mess with a trigger:

1.

2.

This kind of people is the reason shampoo bottles have a record “do not drink”…

Makes you wonder if jostling would also unseat the sear...

 

[xxo]

Honestly, if you carry with one in the pipe, an auto-pistol's design should absolutely prevent a negative discharge. Doesn't matter whose holster you use. If the design doesn't, than the pistol model is dangerously flawed. It's not just one or two cases with that SIG model. It's literally too many to count at this point. With too many lives lost. The P320's designer should be tossed into prison for Negligent Homicide at this point. This pistol would be an absolute joke, if it didn't cost lives.

there's lots of unsafe holsters. For striker fired pistols that lack manual safeties (not counting the trigger dingus), I consider a properly fitted quality kydex/polymer holster to be the primary safety. These pistols are very unforgiving if you are not extremely careful 100% of the time - I consider them to be a kin to carrying a cocked 1911 with the safety off and the grip safety disabled or even like a cocked revolver. I am OK with manual safetyless striker fired a pistols in a level II or level III duty holster since there are safeties built into the holster. But for concealed carry in a ordinary friction fit kydex holster, I generally prefer to have a thumb safety like on the M&P 2.0.

I don't know whats the deal with the uncommanded discharges in the P320, but I would guess that it might have something to do with SIG's current poor quality and the lack of the trigger dingus. Maybe holsters are contributing to this as well? I really don't know and don't much care as I have no interest in the P320 or most of the newer SIGs. It's sad really, back in the day if you wanted top quality, you got a SIG, now they are something to avoid.

 

[alpg88]

There is another side to unintended discharges, that has nothing to do with weapon itself. I do play airsoft, and many on our team carry in real life, so one night we decided to do some training with our holsters, and airsoft version of guns we normally carry, at least as close as you could get, as well as clothes we normally wear. We did have an 1 unintended discharge and few calls calls, when a IWB gun was holstered, a shirt was caught in the holster, and upon putting gun back it pressed the trigger. There is also a video from a famous firearms instructor Massad Ayoob, who teaches when you holster a iwb weapon, you must bend like an arch, sticking your waist out, so if it does discharge, it does not hit your leg right where the artery is, like my buddy did, but misses your leg, or at least hit the front part of it where there are no major arteries, he was teaching that well before p320 came out.

 

[vadimax]

Btw i no longer own a gun due to i live in a safe place thanks god

I have some news for you: absolutely all mass shootings, knife stabbings, murders with vehicles being used as a weapon took place in “safe” places. Perhaps, terrorists don’t like places where people may return fire, I don’t know.

 

[vadimax]

there's lots of unsafe holsters. For striker fired pistols that lack manual safeties (not counting the trigger dingus), I consider a properly fitted quality kydex/polymer holster to be the primary safety. These pistols are very unforgiving if you are not extremely careful 100% of the time - I consider them to be a kin to carrying a cocked 1911 with the safety off and the grip safety disabled or even like a cocked revolver. I am OK with manual safetyless striker fired a pistols in a level II or level III duty holster since there are safeties built into the holster. But for concealed carry in a ordinary friction fit kydex holster, I generally prefer to have a thumb safety like on the M&P 2.0.

I don't know whats the deal with the uncommanded discharges in the P320, but I would guess that it might have something to do with SIG's current poor quality and the lack of the trigger dingus. Maybe holsters are contributing to this as well? I really don't know and don't much care as I have no interest in the P320 or most of the newer SIGs. It's sad really, back in the day if you wanted top quality, you got a SIG, now they are something to avoid.

For example, P211, right? :)

 

[xxo]

For example, P211, right? :)

The p211 looks like a competition gun, for carry I would pass on it. While I like thumb safeties for concealed carry, I don't like grip safeties at all - too easy to safety yourself if you get a poor grip under stress. Also I wouldn't want a comp or a big flared mag well on a carry gun.

 

[Robocop]

Holy smoke I have never really paid much attention to the whole claimed problem with the Sig accidental discharges however the videos above were very interesting. I remember when the claims first hit the internet and I just thought no way was a Sig just randomly discharging in a holster. I am still not sure if it is a valid problem however the videos do make you wonder. I have never carried a Sig so again I just never followed the story much.

For 22 years I carried an H&K USP 40 and I purposely chose that weapon as it had a manual safety. When training with it I developed a muscle memory to disengage the safety on every draw and it was just a little added peace of mind for me. My current department requires the same caliber for all officers and it is the 9mm in Critical Duty Ammo. I was issued a Glock and after having this current version for over 8 years now I still to this day rack my thumb across the slide trying to disengage the safety Of course the Glock has no safety however my muscle memory is still there.

Honestly if safety and absolute reliability is a concern a small revolver works very well for many people. Much less to fumble with and research has shown most self defense situations rarely see more than two rounds fired. Your everyday citizen just does not need 17 rounds inside an automatic. I have also seen many people spend much money on a fancy new handgun only to put it inside a 40 dollar holster from Amazon. The holster and carry style are just as important as the actual weapon. Buy a quality holster and learn to use it well.

When I switched to a 9mm I was surprised at how much less recoil it has than my old 40 cal. I think I just got used to it and although I shot that 40 well this 9mm feels like a squirt gun at times. I was also an iron sight guy however my dept supplied Delta Point Pro red dots and it seriously feels like cheating. I still enjoy iron sights however if you have not tried a red dot on a quality handgun you may want to try it. Tech has came a long way with handguns in the last 30 years and I just never changed with it much until lately. My wife carries a 380 and I keep it full of Golden Sabre rounds. I have always liked those rounds followed closely by Gold Dot.

 

[orbital]

+

Thank you for your professional perspective Robocop ^
wanted to ask how your training is done- 3 shot bursts? then decided that was not a public thing to discuss.

___________________________________________

I don't own a ported barrel pistol, would I get one? maybe.
The concept is sound, you have a muzzle break on a rifle with gasses mostly directed upwards.
Put muzzle breaks on most my my rifles, except a couple smaller caliber bolt action.

I'd never get a really short barrel anything, so muzzle flash isn't an issue w/ me.
Again, the concept is sound on a ported pistol

 

[Monocrom]

there's lots of unsafe holsters. For striker fired pistols that lack manual safeties (not counting the trigger dingus), I consider a properly fitted quality kydex/polymer holster to be the primary safety. These pistols are very unforgiving if you are not extremely careful 100% of the time - I consider them to be a kin to carrying a cocked 1911 with the safety off and the grip safety disabled or even like a cocked revolver. I am OK with manual safetyless striker fired a pistols in a level II or level III duty holster since there are safeties built into the holster. But for concealed carry in a ordinary friction fit kydex holster, I generally prefer to have a thumb safety like on the M&P 2.0.

Glock pretty much solved the issue with their New York Trigger. Then realized that NYPD officers are incompetent with firearms. So, created an even heavier (quite frankly ridiculously so) trigger pull with their New York Plus trigger. Basically turning their pistols into the equivalent of a DAO revolver without an exposed hammer.

Which, ironically was the last such revolver issued to NYPD graduating recruits in the mid. to late 1990s. A stainless steel DAO S&W 64. Didn't issue them for long, making them into collectors items. Though I never advocate carrying a Glock, or any striker-fired automatic in a holster that doesn't completely enclose the trigger-guard. The problem isn't dangerous holsters. The problem is ignorant users. They'll buy a pistol costing them an Arm & a Leg. Then toss it into the cheapest Piece Of $#&% holster they can find, sometimes a Universal fit holster, then; genuinely surprised when something goes way the hell wrong! They refuse to get a proper holster. Meanwhile, that Universal fit holster is perfectly safe with a traditional DA auto with an exposed hammer stuffed into it.

I don't know whats the deal with the uncommanded discharges in the P320, but I would guess that it might have something to do with SIG's current poor quality and the lack of the trigger dingus. Maybe holsters are contributing to this as well? I really don't know and don't much care as I have no interest in the P320 or most of the newer SIGs. It's sad really, back in the day if you wanted top quality, you got a SIG, now they are something to avoid.

It's defective. SIG needs to recall every single one they've sold. But they refuse to do so. Swearing up and down that there's nothing wrong with it. It's definitely not a particular holster design. Otherwise, it would be other handgun models from other brands suffering negligent discharges. Quite a few police departments who switched to SIG, switched over to other brands. Some were intelligent enough to put their department's old sidearms into storage, and just brought those back out again. One department switched after an officer climbed out of his patrol vehicle, pistol snagged on NOTHING but the SIG went off. Caught on body-cam footage. Thankfully he survived. And yeah; back in the day if you wanted the best; you bought a SIG. That era is long gone.

 

[xxo]

The NYPD began phasing out the 12 pound "NY-2" trigger in 2021 in favor of the standard Glock 5.5 lb trigger after it was found that recruit qual scores increased by 5% with the lighter trigger.

 

[raggie33]

Guns should only be owned by those with training and common sence there not toys there a tool to be used in the last resort to keep your self or others alive. Always the last resort run first avoid first .be smart first