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Here you go, Sherman... The later production M31LLL 219B V3 went to 50 from the earlier 15 OTF lumens. This is interesting: "The input voltage is 0.8 to 3.3 volts."
Yeah, this is the issue; it depends on which generation you have.

The newest generation, the LLL was like the LL of the previous generation. I think that was part of the reason maybe there was some lag in selling the V3; the LLL and LLLL weren't as low as they had been previously.

@JJZ109 Thank the heavens you saved that page. I swear there used to be data on the Way Back Machine, but it was a no-go today.
 
From 15 to 50 while keeping the same LLL distinction is crazy. No wonder I was confused.
Yuup! And if you were searching old posts, you'd think you've lost your mind, or that you're just so dumb you can't keep it straight, haha.

It's also why, when someone sells one, they usually but which version it is.
 
Too further "muddy the waters" about the Illumn M31 LLL 219B v3's, there is more than 1 version

From 08-15-2023

2023-08-15 - M31LLL - 219B V3 - High CRI - Info at illumn -purchased 3 on 2023-11-26.jpg


and than........ 05-27-2024

2024-05-27 - M31LLL - 219B V3 - High CRI - Info at illumn - 50 Lumen - 200 mA - I bought 3 on ...jpg


Hope these help, but probably not..!!!

LOL
 
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Too further "muddy the waters" about the Illumn M31 LLL 219B v3's, there is more than 1 version

From 08-15-2023

View attachment 89849

and than........ 05-27-2024

View attachment 89850

Hope these help, but probably not..!!!

LOL
Excellent idea to keep these screenshots! Thanks for sharing!

But seriously this is all helpful information. Just bizarre why they would do that. I'd be more than a little annoyed to buy a dropin expecting 15 and getting 50 or vice versa.
From what I recall, I was told it was a normal variance...

BUT, I think what may have happened was no one wrote down the values from one batch, and so there was a guess made for the next batch?
I don't think regulation circuits work like CPUs or LEDs, and you just make a batch and see how it shakes out. I imagine the level is set by a resistor, and I'd assume Craig didn't record that value, nor Gene, nor whoever put the circuit together (I'll assume everyone assumed everyone else was keeping track of that). And then, once you epoxy it, "Whoopsie!"

But yes, I think when the most recent batch came out the LLLL and LLL were less desirable than the previous, for people looking for maximum runtimes. For some other people, this may have been an improvement.
 
That's interesting that the multi-L M31s had higher output than normal. The M61L with that special note was 250mAh where the typical M61L is 300mAh.
what may have happened was no one wrote down the values from one batch, and so there was a guess made for the next batch?

The fact that regularly available drop-ins like the M61L also had these non-standard outputs doesn't match up with forgetting how they are made. It's definitely weird that they are randomly different though. I was glad the M61L was slightly lower in output. I feel ~100 lumens is within the range where the 219b's relatively low efficacy isn't a big deal, plus it's a generally useful amount of light.
 
That's interesting that the multi-L M31s had higher output than normal. The M61L with that special note was 250mAh where the typical M61L is 300mAh.


The fact that regularly available drop-ins like the M61L also had these non-standard outputs doesn't match up with forgetting how they are made. It's definitely weird that they are randomly different though. I was glad the M61L was slightly lower in output. I feel ~100 lumens is within the range where the 219b's relatively low efficacy isn't a big deal, plus it's a generally useful amount of light.
Maybe they are like a CPU, then, and you put them together, measure them, and there's like a window of variability. IIRC, I think that's what Craig had said to me, but I wasn't sure if that's a thing. It could be, though.
 
No, CPUs are built similar to LEDs; they make a batch, and when they're done, they test them and see how they came out.

That's why some CPUs can be overclocked; their rated speed is how fast they can process without getting to a certain temperature.
LEDs are made, and then sorted into BINs.

It's neat how many things in the world are done that way. It's not that things are made to a specific performance, you just make a bunch, and then sort them into their real world outcomes.
 
I hope they aren't like that where the outcome is that unpredictable from light to light. I know there will be small variation, but if you read a review where some light ran for 10 hours on a certain battery, buy it, and yours only runs 4 hours because it is pulling 150% more current, that would be pretty poor. I hope it was some intentional difference, even if it was just like using up parts, that led to the special note versions of Illumn drop-ins.

I get what you mean about binning, diamonds, CPUs, night vision tubes, even with LEDs the process or the starting materials have some variation that yields different outcomes. But by the time you get them they are already binned. Electronic components should already have some known and somewhat tight tolerance. I would expect any two of the same lights to vary in output a bit, as the LED seems like the most variable component (plus I imagine some cheaper bins have wider variation). But I'd expect the runtimes to be very similar as I don't think a driver should have wide variance. So the output from it would be pretty consistent, just LED variation might mean one light is 500 lumens while another is 475 or something. I have no expertise in this though. I guess I think such a large variability would have manifest itself in some way. Especially in low cost lights. And why don't we see different versions of the same light offered at different output levels from more manufacturers? What do they do with the low vs high binned products? Sell them all as the same? Why don't we see more variation across independent reviewers if that were the case? Maybe it's a very wasteful industry or maybe they sell them in different markets.
 
No, CPUs are built similar to LEDs; they make a batch, and when they're done, they test them and see how they came out.

That's why some CPUs can be overclocked; their rated speed is how fast they can process without getting to a certain temperature.
LEDs are made, and then sorted into BINs.

It's neat how many things in the world are done that way. It's not that things are made to a specific performance, you just make a bunch, and then sort them into their real world outcomes.
Ohhh you mean the actual LED wafer binning...i misunderstood
 
I hope they aren't like that where the outcome is that unpredictable from light to light. I know there will be small variation, but if you read a review where some light ran for 10 hours on a certain battery, buy it, and yours only runs 4 hours because it is pulling 150% more current, that would be pretty poor. I hope it was some intentional difference, even if it was just like using up parts, that led to the special note versions of Illumn drop-ins.

I get what you mean about binning, diamonds, CPUs, night vision tubes, even with LEDs the process or the starting materials have some variation that yields different outcomes. But by the time you get them they are already binned. Electronic components should already have some known and somewhat tight tolerance. I would expect any two of the same lights to vary in output a bit, as the LED seems like the most variable component (plus I imagine some cheaper bins have wider variation). But I'd expect the runtimes to be very similar as I don't think a driver should have wide variance. So the output from it would be pretty consistent, just LED variation might mean one light is 500 lumens while another is 475 or something. I have no expertise in this though. I guess I think such a large variability would have manifest itself in some way. Especially in low cost lights. And why don't we see different versions of the same light offered at different output levels from more manufacturers? What do they do with the low vs high binned products? Sell them all as the same? Why don't we see more variation across independent reviewers if that were the case? Maybe it's a very wasteful industry or maybe they sell them in different markets.
It could be that the low cost lights have the same binned LEDs in them...i remember a few years back, i had multiples of a particular keychain light (it was one of those twisty 10180 lights when they first hit the mass market, manker or mecarmy?). They were all listed as cool white, but with a large variance between 5000k-6500k, and my samples DEFINITELY covered that spread. The lowest temp was definitely more icy blue, the next one up was more pale lavender white, and the last one was a shade more pinkish lavender. The phosphors glowed differently under UV as well, ranging from barely unripe banana yellow to lemon pith yellow
 
I hope they aren't like that where the outcome is that unpredictable from light to light. I know there will be small variation, but if you read a review where some light ran for 10 hours on a certain battery, buy it, and yours only runs 4 hours because it is pulling 150% more current, that would be pretty poor. I hope it was some intentional difference, even if it was just like using up parts, that led to the special note versions of Illumn drop-ins.

I get what you mean about binning, diamonds, CPUs, night vision tubes, even with LEDs the process or the starting materials have some variation that yields different outcomes. But by the time you get them they are already binned. Electronic components should already have some known and somewhat tight tolerance. I would expect any two of the same lights to vary in output a bit, as the LED seems like the most variable component (plus I imagine some cheaper bins have wider variation). But I'd expect the runtimes to be very similar as I don't think a driver should have wide variance. So the output from it would be pretty consistent, just LED variation might mean one light is 500 lumens while another is 475 or something. I have no expertise in this though. I guess I think such a large variability would have manifest itself in some way. Especially in low cost lights. And why don't we see different versions of the same light offered at different output levels from more manufacturers? What do they do with the low vs high binned products? Sell them all as the same? Why don't we see more variation across independent reviewers if that were the case? Maybe it's a very wasteful industry or maybe they sell them in different markets.
Right, and that's why I was more apt to believe that the specific values of resistors weren't recorded somewhere in the supply chain, because I cannot imagine that the electronics to control output could vary so much to create 15 OR 50 lumens.
 
Has anyone wished for a MDC CR123 functionality in the P60 format? I have a McGizmo CR123 body and Malkoff Titanium VME head just begging for a 3 volt 3 level light like the MDC CR123. I'll beg if it will help!
 
Has anyone wished for a MDC CR123 functionality in the P60 format? I have a McGizmo CR123 body and Malkoff Titanium VME head just begging for a 3 volt 3 level light like the MDC CR123. I'll beg if it will help!
I want a 3v 3 mode titanium MDC. Same as Gene offers now, but in titanium with an FFL emitter
 
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