The Official Malkoff Junkie thread - Part 2

[Grizzman]

I understand that it works in the way redvalkyrie describes. With cells wired in series, the voltage of one cell is multiplied by the number of cells used. With cells wired in parallel, the mAh of one cell is multiplied by the number of cells used.

Run time is increased with Malkoffs due to them drawing less amperage when driven by a higher voltage.

 

[Woods Walker]

Add them together. That is why the MD4 host gives you twice the run time as a MD2. 2 batteries equal twice the run time as a general rule.
As far as AA cells, generally speaking they are roughly 2000mAh's each. Using 4-AA cells would give you approximately 8000 mAh's of battery usage.

I don't know the exact watt hour calculations but it seems more energy should equal more light.

 

[NutSAK]

That is why the MD4 host gives you twice the run time as a MD2. 2 batteries equal twice the run time as a general rule.

This is a bit oversimplified. In the case where the driver outputs the same current to the emitter in both configurations, what you have said is true.

 

[Woods Walker]

I was under the impression that it was the mah of each single battery that determined runtime? For example--2x18650 3500mah batteries do not make 7000mah--it's 3500mah. Or, is it that once the regulated output voltage is reached, every voltage step above that gives a longer runtime because there's a higher level of voltage to pull down?

Yes. I think the mAh remains but the voltage goes up. For example 4X CR123 is 12 volts at 1400 mAh but no expert on numbers. I mostly go on field observations.

 

[staticx57]

I don't know the exact watt hour calculations but it seems more energy should equal more light.

Watt Hours is nominal voltage times mah. For example Li-ion 18650 3500mah it would be 3.7v times 3.5ah or 12.95 watt hours. A NiMh (eneloop for example) has a nominal voltage of 1.2v and say 2500 mah it nets to 3 watt hours.

Series or parallel doesn't matter in how you do the calculations as long as you remember in series you add voltage and parrallel you add mah. So two 18650 in series it is 7.4v*3.5Ah and in parallel it is 3.7v*7Ah

 

[staticx57]

I understand that it works in the way redvalkyrie describes. With cells wired in series, the voltage of one cell is multiplied by the number of cells used. With cells wired in parallel, the mAh of one cell is multiplied by the number of cells used.

Run time is increased with Malkoffs due to them drawing less amperage when driven by a higher voltage.

amperage is decreased but voltage is increased. At least in regulation it will net out to the same power given to the emitter.

But you are on the the right track. Take one of HKJ's battery discharge graphs and it will tell you why you get more runtime. The harder you drive a cell the less capacity it will give you. The nominal voltage is the same but the measured Ah is greatly reduced when asking a lot from a cell. This is true for all cell types, alkaline, NiMh, Li-ion lithium primary.

 

[etc]

The more cells you use, the higher the effeciency gets.

2x123 are better than one and 9p with a malkoff will always get more than 1.5 runtime if a 6p with same malkoff.

4aa has to be a more effecient system than 2 or 3aa.

 

[Woods Walker]

Watt Hours is nominal voltage times mah. For example Li-ion 18650 3500mah it would be 3.7v times 3.5ah or 12.95 watt hours. A NiMh (eneloop for example) has a nominal voltage of 1.2v and say 2500 mah it nets to 3 watt hours.

Series or parallel doesn't matter in how you do the calculations as long as you remember in series you add voltage and parrallel you add mah. So two 18650 in series it is 7.4v*3.5mah and in parallel it is 3.7v*7mah

Thanks.

4XAA NiMH at 4.8 nominal voltage/2.5ah is 12 watt hours.
1X 16650 Li-ion AT 3.7 nominal voltage/2.5ah is 9.25 watt hours
2X CR123 Lithium Primaries 6 nominal volts/1.4ah is 8.4 watt hours.

Does that sound about right?

Edit to add. My field usage showed 4XAA to be the best of the options I used within the 6p (not bored out) but never actually timed this within a direct comparison side by side so could be wrong. Someplace on this thread I do remember timing 4XAA I think? Gotta look back.

 

[NutSAK]

The more cells you use, the higher the effeciency gets.

2x123 are better than one and 9p with a malkoff will always get more than 1.5 runtime if a 6p with same malkoff.

4aa has to be a more effecient system than 2 or 3aa.

Bucking voltage is always more efficient than boosting it.

You mentioned that a 9P is the ultimate "end of world" configuration. To an extent I agree with you because, as you mentioned, having the ability to run many cell combinations is great. However, in an "end of world" scenario, one thing to consider is that running multiple-cell setups is not ideal (IMO). The last thing I need in such a stressful scenario is keeping track of the depletion/charge level of cells and matching them, especially since I will likely be using cells for more than just my flashlight. In 9P with an M61, you are limited in your choice single-cell options, at least with regulated output (Li-Ion only). Just something to consider...

 

[RI Chevy]

This is a bit oversimplified. In the case where the driver outputs the same current to the emitter in both configurations, what you have said is true.

Yes sir. We were talking Malkoff drop-ins with regulated output. So I kept it simple. Lol

 

[NutSAK]

Yes sir. We were talking Malkoff drop-ins with regulated output. So I kept it simple. Lol

No sir. An M61 does not have the same regulated output with 1xLi-Ion cell as it does with two, so your statement in that case is still oversimplified.

I get your point, though.

LOL


http://flashlightguide.com/2013/11/review-malkoff-md2-flashlight/

 

[RI Chevy]

Lol. 👍

 

[Woods Walker]

Ok. The Frankinlight 4XAA C2 M61LL is ready.



Going to make sure the batteries are fully charged and do a runtime test.

 

[RI Chevy]

 

[flashy bazook]

Ok. The Frankinlight 4XAA C2 M61LL is ready.



Going to make sure the batteries are fully charged and do a runtime test.

That C2 is probably very annoyed!

It went from being the prettiest gal in the room to the worst looking franken-weenie .

Anyway, sorry to have caused confusion, my point on the runtime was that these Malkoff drop-ins are single, regulated output, but when you go to low voltages their behavior changes and adding a cell may get them to run at higher lumen outputs which can of course use them up faster.

Remember, they were created to run using typically 2x3 volt primary cells, or 1xLi-Ion cell, or 3x3 volt primary cells and 2xLi-Ion cells.

When we run them at 2xAA or 3xAA we change their behavior, they go to lower lumen outputs which can step up or down depending on how many (and even which types of) AA cells we use.

In fact that's why many of us like these drop-ins so much, because they have these different kinds of behaviors.

And on top of everything else, at some point (for some types of cells, they even do this from the start) they go into direct drive (where the lumen output can drop continuously over time from some initial point, which itself is variable).

Since I don't know the behavior when using 4xAA, I merely speculated that it is not sure that runtime would increase going from 3xAA to 4xAA (and in fact this could even be different for different types of AA's!).

Woods Walker has it completely right, we'll know only after someone actually goes ahead and does a real life test!

 

[archimedes]

....
You mentioned that a 9P is the ultimate "end of world" configuration. To an extent I agree with you because, as you mentioned, having the ability to run many cell combinations is great. However, in an "end of world" scenario, one thing to consider is that running multiple-cell setups is not ideal (IMO). The last thing I need in such a stressful scenario is keeping track of the depletion/charge level of cells and matching them, especially since I will likely be using cells for more than just my flashlight. In 9P with an M61, you are limited in your choice single-cell options, at least with regulated output (Li-Ion only). Just something to consider...

M60LL will run on a single cell, with a couple of 34mm spacers .... Having regulated output may be rather low on the overall list of concerns, if things actually get to that point :shrug:

 

[etc]

yeah, M6*LL or LLL do run on a single 123. I cannot say it's bright nor has decent runtime - but runs it does.

And as pointed out above, you can use 9P with spacers if so inclined. But in the last 10 years I've never had issues with mismatched cells. It's not an issue. It won't suddenly blow up into stratosphere if voltage is different. Which shouldn't be in the first place.

You stick the cells in 9P with Malkoff LL or LLL or even LLLL, when it no longer runs, take them out.

 

[Woods Walker]

That C2 is probably very annoyed!

It went from being the prettiest gal in the room to the worst looking franken-weenie .

Anyway, sorry to have caused confusion, my point on the runtime was that these Malkoff drop-ins are single, regulated output, but when you go to low voltages their behavior changes and adding a cell may get them to run at higher lumen outputs which can of course use them up faster.

Remember, they were created to run using typically 2x3 volt primary cells, or 1xLi-Ion cell, or 3x3 volt primary cells and 2xLi-Ion cells.

When we run them at 2xAA or 3xAA we change their behavior, they go to lower lumen outputs which can step up or down depending on how many (and even which types of) AA cells we use.

In fact that's why many of us like these drop-ins so much, because they have these different kinds of behaviors.

And on top of everything else, at some point (for some types of cells, they even do this from the start) they go into direct drive (where the lumen output can drop continuously over time from some initial point, which itself is variable).

Since I don't know the behavior when using 4xAA, I merely speculated that it is not sure that runtime would increase going from 3xAA to 4xAA (and in fact this could even be different for different types of AA's!).

Woods Walker has it completely right, we'll know only after someone actually goes ahead and does a real life test!

Batteries are a GO and timer is now running.



I do remember good regulated and DD run times for the M61WL using 4XAA. Gotta check back in this thread but not sure if I was exact. This time the timer is running right next. That said the last test was better as took it on a long night hike in the bear infested woods. Well the bears were rolling bird feeders down the road at the time..... so much for the infested woods. Regrettable this will be a pure numbers play. Yes the C2 is pissed! LOL! It does bother me having a light shining on a wall on principle.

The output appears to be full. On a side note feel the M60/61LL is the overall best for me in term of practically. It can do everything the full power M61 can (within reason) but run longer. The differences between the M61NL or M61WL is hard to distinguish from M61LL.

 

[Woods Walker]

yeah, M6*LL or LLL do run on a single 123. I cannot say it's bright nor has decent runtime - but runs it does.

And as pointed out above, you can use 9P with spacers if so inclined. But in the last 10 years I've never had issues with mismatched cells. It's not an issue. It won't suddenly blow up into stratosphere if voltage is different. Which shouldn't be in the first place.

You stick the cells in 9P with Malkoff LL or LLL or even LLLL, when it no longer runs, take them out.

I need to buy a good 3P aka turn a 6P to 9P extension which will work.

 

[flashy bazook]

Batteries are a GO and timer is now running.



I do remember good regulated and DD run times for the M61WL using 4XAA. Gotta check back in this thread but not sure if I was exact. This time the timer is running right next. That said the last test was better as took it on a long night hike in the bear infested woods. Well the bears were rolling bird feeders down the road at the time..... so much for the infested woods. Regrettable this will be a pure numbers play. Yes the C2 is pissed! LOL! It does bother me having a light shining on a wall on principle.

The output appears to be full. On a side note feel the M60/61LL is the overall best for me in term of practically. It can do everything the full power M61 can (within reason) but run longer. The differences between the M61NL or M61WL is hard to distinguish from M61LL.

To easily retrieve your own measurements, so you don't have to search for them in these by now massive forums, you can put them into a spreadsheet whenever you make them .

Many thanks for taking the time to add another data-point to our collection!

And also many more thanks for all the posts you've taken the time to collect here about your trail walking, I read them all the time and enjoy them tremendously.