Cars, Man

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Again with the tail lights.

~ Chance

 

[Minimoog]

How easy is it to get spare parts for your car?
To me its one of the main worries of owning a car these days - that I can't get bits that I need. It seems that dealers no longer have all the spare parts that they used to out the back, and gone are the days when the storesman would have a rummage and get you on your way. I miss that. Online ordering is just a gamble, and what is shown in the photo is not often what you get.

I remember dealers often had a breaking car or two out the back and said 'help yourself' and then I showed what I took off the the stores manager and he said 'call it a fiver' and I was happy.

It made it so easy and made looking after the car do-able. Now the dealers are no longer like that and as I said, it is a worry. I just want a bit of expert help to get me the parts I need.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Electric Hot Rods! :twothumbs

 

[FroggyTaco]

How easy is it to get spare parts for your car?
To me its one of the main worries of owning a car these days - that I can't get bits that I need. It seems that dealers no longer have all the spare parts that they used to out the back, and gone are the days when the storesman would have a rummage and get you on your way. I miss that. Online ordering is just a gamble, and what is shown in the photo is not often what you get.

I remember dealers often had a breaking car or two out the back and said 'help yourself' and then I showed what I took off the the stores manager and he said 'call it a fiver' and I was happy.

It made it so easy and made looking after the car do-able. Now the dealers are no longer like that and as I said, it is a worry. I just want a bit of expert help to get me the parts I need.

Where do you live? I live in California & aside from junkyards, it's basically never been like that. If anything parts are WAY easier to source between multiple local parts stores & the dealer + other dealers selling online at a nice discount if you need or want the OEM part. Granted you need to know what you're ordering but that's true of anything.

 

[Minimoog]

Where do you live? I live in California & aside from junkyards, it's basically never been like that. If anything parts are WAY easier to source between multiple local parts stores & the dealer + other dealers selling online at a nice discount if you need or want the OEM part. Granted you need to know what you're ordering but that's true of anything.

I'm in the UK. When getting a car one of the first things I used to do was visit a few local dealers and chat about spares and repair. Out the back was often an Alladins cave of bits and when they had a stock clear out sometimes they would keep me in mind and let me have stuff for free like a new cylinder head, brake disks and sets of headlights. Now nothing like that any more and that was only 15 years ago.

 

[FroggyTaco]

Ah, thanks for letting me know. It's always fascinating how different countries & cultures handle essentially the same situations so differently

 

[StarHalo]

GM's list of discontinued cars, discontinued plants, discontinued employees:

 

[RBR]

.....

 

[idleprocess]

Why don't you guys buy US/Ford/GM cars anymore?

A simple question with numerous, hotly-debated answers.

Domestic low- and mid-end sedans have never been terribly popular with US buyers for a variety of reasons.

The European versions of the numerous models that Ford and now GM have cancelled are made out in the automotive press to be these surprisingly awesome vehicles that are inexplicably withheld from the USDM for reasons never really explained to anyone's satisfaction. The reality is likely far more complicated.

I've always found something deeply unsatisfactory about most domestic sedans. Huge yet cramped. Middling fuel economy yet marginal performance. Styling that's just nope. More elements of execution that seem phoned in than their overseas competitors. The trims/packages game is that much more aggravating to get the features you want.

As much money as Detroit has figured out they can make with trucks it's no surprise that the Big 3 have all stepped back from sedans in recent years.

 

[Monocrom]

Why don't you guys buy US/Ford/GM cars anymore?

Oooo.... Things could get heated awfully fast with that question. But I'll give you an honest reply. Every single automotive journalist, the ones who literally make a living at testing countless cars each year, will say the same thing. If you want quality, if you want a passenger car that lasts, gives you very few headaches over the years, and won't make your wallet look anorexic, while being a good value for your money.... Buy a Toyota, or a Honda. (Nissan used to be included as well, but that was before they got bought out by Renault. And the quality of current Nissans isn't what it used to be.)

For Japanese brands there's a factor that sad to say, just isn't there with American ones. To Japanese workers in Japan, it's not simply a matter of pride in making excellent vehicles; but a matter of Honor as well. Tough to describe, but that's just how it is. The concept of Shame and "Bringing Shame upon oneself and family" that's a very real thing to them. Just one factor why American car companies are having a harder time competing with Japanese ones. Even when the Japanese make critical mistakes, they bounce back very quickly.

Also, they seem to be run by more intelligent executives. Look at all the mistakes GM has made over the years to get to the point they are at now. Intentionally ignored the marketplace. Intentionally gave some of their core customer base the finger, while attempting to cater to other segments of the market.

Pontiac dead. Why in the world would you introduce an SUV into your Sporty car brand? Oldsmobile dead. Why would you intentionally spend millions on R&D to introduce a new line of models that your core customer base does not want? (Yes, the Intrigue, Aurora, and even the Alero have nice styling. But they look ridiculous wearing Oldsmobile badges.) Discontinuing the 88 was another nail in Oldsmobile's coffin. Hummer dead. Stick with military sales of the H1. make it in a handful of different configurations FOR THE MILITARY. Once all the macho guys bought H1s when they were offered to civilians during the first year, sales plummeted! Rather than pull out, they introduced two more models! No one wants a dressed up in Army fatigues Chevy Suburban with FAR less room inside than a normal Suburban. And no one wants an even more cramped H3, or mini Hummer?? That's pretty much what it was.

General incompetence, arrogance, and a refusal to listen to custom needs & wants has lead GM to this. Chrysler has struggled for decades to shake its image of making poor quality cars. Ford has done better than the other two overall, but that's really not saying much. Consumers vote with their wallets. And they're sick of being ignored, and driving lesser quality cars compared to Toyota and Honda.

 

[Monocrom]

GM's list of discontinued cars, discontinued plants, discontinued employees:

That's just really unfortunate to see that. But again, we have another example of GM's incompetent executives. Chevy Impala and Cruze both being discontinued. I can tell you that both of those models enjoy excellent fleet sales among various different law-enforcement agencies. I can't get into specifics, but part of my night shift job involves patrolling a handful of huge parking lots. Where I work at, we have a bunch of different Local, State, and even Federal agencies all in one location.

Give you guys one guess what the two most prominent vehicles with law-enforcement plates happen to be in those parking lots.

 

[MeMeMe]

For Japanese brands there's a factor that sad to say, just isn't there with American ones. To Japanese workers in Japan, it's not simply a matter of pride in making excellent vehicles; but a matter of Honor as well. Tough to describe, but that's just how it is. The concept of Shame and "Bringing Shame upon oneself and family" that's a very real thing to them. Just one factor why American car companies are having a harder time competing with Japanese ones. Even when the Japanese make critical mistakes, they bounce back very quickly.

The vast majority of Japanese branded vehicles sold in North America are made in North America. The Camry has the highest North American content of any car made in North America.

While lambasting executives, let's not forget arrogant unions.

Ford and Chevrolet are currently crushing Toyota and Honda in initial quality, and when you look at 3 year reliability, Chevrolet is now giving Toyota a run and the difference between Honda and Ford is not very big. Nissan who has slipped in initial quality, does okay in longer term studies. Poor MFG perhaps, but better engineering.

Japanese still seem to win in vehicle dynamics, but that is closing too. Overall better balance in their designs. Ford/Chevrolet seem to be 95% right, but then screw up 5% badly, though Ford of late I don't think can be accused of that.

Most of the concepts of reliability are based on long memories, not current realities. Unfortunately, NA car companies did not have the previously cheap labor of a Hyundai to continue to sell cars cheaply while they worked on quality. Hyundai quality is now world class, and their wages are right up there in the world too.

 

[Minimoog]

US cars always had a sort of mysterious appeal to me in the UK. Never available in RHD, they were seen only in photographs and films. Why didn't they make RHD drive and make some for export? Would have been a good alternative.

In the UK we were offered for years 800-1100 CC cars and you had to make do. 1300 CC was seen as 'sporty' and if you had a 1600 then you were likely needing to explain to others why you needed a 1.6. I have a 1.9 TDI hatchback and when I rang up for insurance the woman at the other end said 'that's a lot' and I said its only a basic turbodeisel but it soon pushed the premium up.

Its not so bad these days, but so many cars could barely move their occupants and even a slight hill needed second or even first gear - and the car may still come back down unable to complete the slope. 30-40 BHP is fine for the flat but get into top and on a slight hill and you just slow down. Even headwinds slow you down.

Its probably a distant hark-back to WW2 fuel rationing but I wished years ago that the rather nice cars available (70's and 80's) had an engine that could move them properly.

A speedo 90 MPH downhill (real 84/5) used to be the absolute max most cars could muster - bigger cars with bigger engines still did not have enough power to get beyond this.

I still have my first car - a 1987 Skoda Estelle 105 - has 44 BHP. I don't think the US got Skoda, but the UK has lots. Made in CZ.

 

[Monocrom]

The vast majority of Japanese branded vehicles sold in North America are made in North America. The Camry has the highest North American content of any car made in North America.

The head executives are still Japanese though. And that mentality still exists with them. Also, while some Japanese cars are indeed made in America, I was specifically referring to models still made in Japan.

While lambasting executives, let's not forget arrogant unions.

No doubt the Unions deserve a fair share of the blame. However, as you pointed out, many of the popular Japanese models are made here in America too. Toyota and Honda have to deal with Unions as well. Yet they simply don't seem to be having the issues with them that traditional American car companies are having.

Though you do bring up an excellent point. The next time someone shouts "Buy American!" You can show off your Toyota Camry and say, "I did."

Ford and Chevrolet are currently crushing Toyota and Honda in initial quality, and when you look at 3 year reliability, Chevrolet is now giving Toyota a run and the difference between Honda and Ford is not very big. Nissan who has slipped in initial quality, does okay in longer term studies. Poor MFG perhaps, but better engineering.

For someone who is leasing, you bring up an excellent point. I've had my Mazda 6 V6 going on 10 years this upcoming February. Zero major issues with it. A few minor ones. But that's to be expected on a car pushing a Decade. More and more folks are keeping cars longer and longer. I mean, with the exception of buying a house, buying a car is the single item you're going to spend the most amount of money on. With trucks and SUVs, the traditional brands are doing well. But again, both Toyota and Honda have shown they can do excellent jobs in that regard too. (Admittedly, Honda's automatic tranny selection on their bigger vehicles tend to be a little weak in terms of performance. But that's about the worst problem they have.)

I live in a working class neighborhood. I see a lot of older cars. And I'm sorry but you simply will not see GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicles from a decade ago; here. You won't. You will see plenty of older Civics, Camrys, Corollas, and Accords. And in that order. Every GM, Ford, and Dodge are all newer models.

Ford has actually given up on cars! They've tossed in the white flag. Literally every single passenger car from Ford is being eliminated. Except for the Mustang and possibly one other model I believe. But Ford no longer even wants to compete with Honda and Toyota in the passenger car segment. Ford quit and took its ball home with it (in that segment). That's a pretty glaring declaration. Ford basically admitted their sales are down, they can't compete with other car brands, and they're not willing to put in the money and effort to turn the situation around. So they're going to just cut their losses and not bother trying anymore.

Japanese still seem to win in vehicle dynamics, but that is closing too. Overall better balance in their designs. Ford/Chevrolet seem to be 95% right, but then screw up 5% badly, though Ford of late I don't think can be accused of that.

I'm forced to agree with you that Ford can't be accused of that. Unfortunately it's for the very reason outlined above. Can't criticize quality of a brand's cars when very soon they will no longer make cars.

Most of the concepts of reliability are based on long memories, not current realities. Unfortunately, NA car companies did not have the previously cheap labor of a Hyundai to continue to sell cars cheaply while they worked on quality. Hyundai quality is now world class, and their wages are right up there in the world too.

As a personal thing, My Mazda 6 is far from a memory. What I see in my neighborhood as far as 10 year+ cars on the road, I see everyday. As far as cheap North American cars go, my dad's Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme was a Near Luxury tank of a car. Absolute quality, built by GM back in 1981. Lasted 16 years of daily driving. Sure, it had its issues. But it was quality, and it was reliable. As far as cheap cars go. It has taken awhile but folks are coming to a realization that cheap cars don't last. A used Honda Civic is going to cost as much but last longer than a brand new Chevy Spark.

 

[alpg88]

is gm car made in Mexico, or Canada more American than a Honda build in USA? seems like Honda is more American now than gm.

 

[alpg88]

No doubt the Unions deserve a fair share of the blame. However, as you pointed out, many of the popular Japanese models are made here in America too. Toyota and Honda have to deal with Unions as well. Yet they simply don't seem to be having the issues with them that traditional American car companies are having.

.

because they are not unionized nearly as much. Honda wont let unions on their property, and Toyota closed its only union factory in 2009. good riddance i say.

 

[MeMeMe]

Ford's choice is simple business. They don't see value in investing in vehicles where the per vehicle profit is so low. It makes good financial sense though I do have to wonder about economies of scale. I expect some more consolidation once the Chinese start exporting. I have had really good North American cars, and had a Honda (in the last 10 years) that was constant trouble .... and of course troublesome NA cars and super reliable Japanese cars. Until very recently, most German made cars were nothing but trouble. Most of people's poor impressions of North American vehicles is based on old history.

Many Japanese plants in North America are not unionized.

 

[MeMeMe]

because they are not unionized nearly as much. Honda wont let unions on their property, and Toyota closed its only union factory in 2009. good riddance i say.

Sorry I had not read your reply when I posted mine.

I worked in Engineering in a GM plant many years ago. We wore Union grievances as badges of honor. It meant we cared more about getting product out the door than worrying about some union wanks feelings.

 

[MeMeMe]

I live in a working class neighborhood. I see a lot of older cars. And I'm sorry but you simply will not see GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicles from a decade ago; here. You won't. You will see plenty of older Civics, Camrys, Corollas, and Accords. And in that order. Every GM, Ford, and Dodge are all newer models. .

.. You are basically agreeing with me. 10+ years ago, Japanese cars were better. That is no longer the case.

Did you have a V6 in that Mazda 6? .... What year? The first generation Mazda 6, V6, which was super reliable, was a FORD engine.

 

[alpg88]

no, you completely twisted his statement.
pretty clear he meant there are not many old domestic cars around, cuz by that time they turn into junk not worth fixing, imports otoh keep on ticking even if they have rust holes.

there is absolutely nothing in his quoted post suggesting older imports were better than newer ones.