EV and Alt Fuel Vehicles, part 10

[gadget_lover]

Yes, those are all good points. Urban centers can easily take advantage of economies of scale, and it's not impossible to ban all automobile traffic within city limits so as to force the population to maximize value of the public transport.

On the other hand, Urban centers also maximize the efficiency of crime (gangs) while minimizing your options. The rent for small two bedroom apartment in San Francisco will cost more than my house payment in an upscale suburb.

But back on subject... I dislike the conventional paradigm of public transportation. It results in empty light rail trains running from station to station just in case someone wants to get on. Buses run past all day long with only 1 or two riders. Because they run on a schedule to predetermined stops, you almost always have to brave the elements while waiting for the bus or train. The result is miserable rides during rush hour when you are lucky to get a seat, and you may or may not have to share it with some unwashed guy who's mumbling to himself the whole trip. During off hours you can be the only one in a 100 person train car... well the only one other than that guy mumbling to himself.

We live in a different era. Everyone has a phone. Computers can handle scheduling and routing. GPS can be used to locate resources and riders, and can maximize the use of resources. Has any research been done into the relative efficiency of small buses and one car trains dispatched on demand during off-peak? If the airport parking facility can manage to send a shuttle within 5 minutes of being called, I imagine the city transportation system could do the same.

Public transport is not always financially viable. I've used public transport many times for many years. When commuting to SF on light rail (BART) I found it cost more than driving and took an extra 45 minutes each way. There were several artificial barriers to driving; most notably a $3 bridge toll that primarily goes to subsidize public transport while slowing down the entry to SF. There was also the scarce parking in the area I worked, which added $200 a month. The daily traffic jam at the bridge toll booths was the deciding factor that pushed me onto BART.

The sad part of the BART story is that I've paid tens of thousands of dollars in special sales taxes over the last 30 years that were specifically for BART.

Daniel

 

[McGizmo]

Since I haven't followed this thread perhaps I shouldn't post now but curiousity dictates otherwise. I read about the congestion and not enough lanes and size of transport is obviously part of the equation. I did a google on electric alternatives a couple months back and came across an electric Smart Car. I got prety excited when I found there is a dealer here on Maui planning to handle the Smart Car but then discovered this would be the gas model, at least initially. I recently received an E-letter from Smart USA that they are ramping up to bring these cars to dealers throughout the country. I realize these aren't EV or ALt fuel vehicles but in terms of physical congestion and the dinky parking spots around these days, do these cars represent a viable alternative for some of the problems we face?

I am very happy driving my Vespa Scooter around but during heavy rain and stormy weather, a covered 4 wheel transport is preferable and the Smart Car might be a good alternative. An electric version would make my day, me thinks?!?!

 

[gadget_lover]

I'd say the Smart will not do much unless we build an infrastructure just for them. Just as a single Vespa takes up a full sized parking space, a Smart will too. When you start reserving spaces for them the equation changes, but only in as much as you can keep them full. If a parking lot has 100 spaces, of which 30 are 1/2 size and resrved for microcars it's a net loss unless more than 15 of those spaces are filled.

A similar situation should apply to motorcycles and micro cars on the road. You are still required to follow at a set distance so (with the exception of lane splitting) you don't get a higher passenger density per linear foot of roadway with either one. One could make the case that a motorcycle that is lane spliting is tailgating, but that's another topic.

I think that when it comes to commuting, Vanpools have the highest convenience + density factor.


Daniel

 

[rodfran]

My bus pass costs $10 a month. That won't buy much gas today. Like jtr says-I listen to music,read books,newspaper, etc. Every day when I walk under the freeway to my home, the people on the freeway are in gridlock. Also I am well rested, since I have not had to drive a car and fight the terrible traffic. The bus driver takes care of all the driving hassles. A guy I work with has had three wrecks in three months, so car insurance is also an important issue.

 

[L.E.D.]

Any y'all heard of the new Barium Titanate capacitors? In theory, you could charge it for 5 minutes and go a few hundred miles off of it: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/03/eestor_capacito_1.php

These are many, MANY times better than the old "supercaps" everyone was all excited about. Good GOD would I love to have a flashlight powered by a small version of this type of cap.

 

[James S]

so then will my car go "mewweeeeEEEEEEEE" as it charges like my old camera flash?

Can I connect them to the hull plating to fight off attacks of hottentots, cannibals and giant squid?

no but seriously.. thats fantastic.

Course you wont be able to charge them instantly from a regular outlet, as a regular outlet can still only supply 15 amps, or 20 but you could get bigger outlets to supply more power you just wouldn't need to be connected as long.

 

[L.E.D.]

Lol @ regular outlets, cannibals and giant squid. Think it's fake? Tell that to the Google multimillionares who have already begun investing in EEStor and the capacitors.

 

[gadget_lover]

That 'treehugger' webpage is dated 18 months ago. I don't recall seeing any new or different EESTOR claims since then. Have they made it to manufacturing, or are they still in R&D?

Daniel

 

[Darell]

That 'treehugger' webpage is dated 18 months ago. I don't recall seeing any new or different EESTOR claims since then. Have they made it to manufacturing, or are they still in R&D?

Yeah, as Daniel points out, these are not "new." In fact they don't yet exist enough to be called more than a really exciting idea. They haven't yet produced anything that I'm aware of. EESTOR has had these similar claims for a few years now. And still no product. I do wish them the best, but it certainly has been a while.

Caps have the potential to be a great option. The problem is that everybody who's tried using them (and that includes most of the folks who are working so hard on Fuel Cell vehicles) have gone back to batteries for one reason or another. If these EESTORE caps prove to be as good as claimed when they are mass produced, then they will change the game. In the meantime, we've got to get on with the products that are proven.

The Zenn was supposed to have a vehicle running around on these by the end of 2007. But no. Not a peep.

 

[L.E.D.]

Wow. That sucks to hear . Hopefully there is some bit of truth to it. Hopefully it's not as much of a hoax as that darned "MEG" or Motionless Electromagnetic Generator.

 

[Darell]

Wow. That sucks to hear . Hopefully there is some bit of truth to it. Hopefully it's not as much of a hoax as that darned "MEG" or Motionless Electromagnetic Generator.

I look at it like the Chevy Volt. Great specs. And they're definitely working toward something to sell. But until it can exist in the light of day, we can only sit and hope and wonder. The EESTOR folks have let lots of stuff "leak" but spend most of their time saying, "we aren't going to tell you anything."

 

[ledlurker]

When it comes to stuff discussed above, I call it "View-Graph Engineering". If only 20% of the power point presentations I participated in at NASA would have been possible and implemented then there would already be a single-stage-to-orbit spacecraft in use. Some things that can work on a 1/3 scale test vehicle do not scale up when building the real thing.

I have a friend in the electronics business that has developed the technology for high end processors that would consume less than 1 watt of power, but he is having to deal with the limitations of materials and the boundary of physical laws in order to have a scaled up version that can survive outside a laboratory environment. His most valuable employees at this point is mathematicians and physics experts.

 

[Darell]

Wow! Nanosolar has shipped its first commercial panels to a 1 Megawatt municipal solar power plant in East Germany. Projected cost per watt is $1, which is a radical reduction (about a factor of 5 reduction in cost). Here's hoping that this is *real*.


Nanosolar Ships First Panels
December 18, 2007

After five years of product development – including aggressively pipelined science, research and development, manufacturing process development, product testing, manufacturing engineering and tool development, and factory construction – we now have shipped first product and received our first check of product revenue.

We are grateful to everyone who supported us through all these years and the many occasions where there appeared to be mile-high concrete walls in our path; the unusual intensity and creativity of our team deserves all the credit for achieving this major milestone today.

Our product is defining in more ways I can enumerate here but includes:

- the world's first printed thin-film solar cell in a commercial panel product;

- the world's first thin-film solar cell with a low-cost back-contact capability;

- the world's lowest-cost solar panel – which we believe will make us the first solar manufacturer capable of profitably selling solar panels at as little as $.99/Watt [snip...]

(sorry, no link to full article)

 

[McGizmo]

I'd say the Smart will not do much unless we build an infrastructure just for them. Just as a single Vespa takes up a full sized parking space, a Smart will too. When you start reserving spaces for them the equation changes, but only in as much as you can keep them full. If a parking lot has 100 spaces, of which 30 are 1/2 size and resrved for microcars it's a net loss unless more than 15 of those spaces are filled.

A similar situation should apply to motorcycles and micro cars on the road. You are still required to follow at a set distance so (with the exception of lane splitting) you don't get a higher passenger density per linear foot of roadway with either one. One could make the case that a motorcycle that is lane spliting is tailgating, but that's another topic.

I think that when it comes to commuting, Vanpools have the highest convenience + density factor.


Daniel

Good points. Over here, it seem that the parking stalls have already been designed with a Smart size car in mind; if you want to avoid car door damage and actually open the doors when parked. On (curb) and off street parking as well could be increased with these smaller cars. I recall many curb situatuons in SF where only a bike or Smart sized car would fit between driveways.

In the past, when I had 4WD vehicles, I often enjoyed the option of creative parking with curbs not limiting well off street parking. If I had a car the size of the Smart, I suspect I would find unmarked places I could squeeze into.

This is all OT for the thread though unless the Smart BioDiesel or Electric version make the scene..........

 

[Darell]

unless the Smart BioDiesel or Electric version make the scene..........

The part that ticks me off is that one company after another has said that they'll bring E-smarts to the US. For YEARS we've been hearing this, and it keeps not happening.

It is odd that we've marked out all these parking spaces for some "average" size of car. They're too small for the hulking SUVs, and they're too big for motorcycles and Smart/Tango-size cars. And since people in general can't be trusted to park appropriately for themselves... we end up with this one-size-doesn't-fit-all system.

The answer, of course, is to get rid of all private autos.

 

[raggie33]

darrel was you on that show called who killed the electric car. one guy looked like you kinda

 

[Darell]

darrel was you on that show called who killed the electric car. one guy looked like you kinda

My lovely self and my cars are in the movie a couple of times, yes. I also supplied some of the footage that was used.

I'm the good-looking guy.

 

[raggie33]

My lovely self and my cars are in the movie a couple of times, yes. I also supplied some of the footage that was used.

I'm the good-looking guy.

thats cool as hell i thought it was you.i still haver the dvd ya sent with ya car some where.thats a good movie i saw it a few times. ps ya realy should watch that show with edd begly he has a cool setup.i think its on a and e i forget.

 

[Darell]

thats cool as hell i thought it was you.i still haver the dvd ya sent with ya car some where.thats a good movie i saw it a few times.

Excellent. Yes, I remember sending the EV1 movie to you a while back!

As for Ed B... yes, I've seen the show a couple of times. But I don't get any fancy channels here, and rarely have the TV on anyway.

 

[raggie33]

they are going to re aire it 1/1 /2008.ill check it out again when they re aire it