EV and Alt Fuel Vehicles, part 10

[Darell]

Friend of mine has the original owners manual for his 1984 1.3L Honda CRX.
It quotes:
CITY 52 MPG
HYW 64MPG
AVG 58 MPG

He still owns the darn thing and even with 280K on the speedometer it gets a consistent 55 MPG overall average.

So you have to ask yourself what is the problem here.

25 years later they think 35 mpg is front page news ?

Not hardly friends.

Several issues. And the biggest one is emissions. Our goal isn't just to save gas - though that's a biggie - it is also to quit spewing crap into the air. While a high mileage car like the old CRX does a pretty good job on reducing CO2, it does a terrible job on the rest of the emissions. Even big, stupid guzzlers sold today do better on the other emissions than the CRX did. The new CRX will be a significantly different, and significantly cleaner car than the original. Yeah... it'll get worse gas mileage, and that sucks.

I totally agree that 35 mpg shouldn't be front-page news. But I will point out that a modern Prius can do 55 mpg average (I'm at 54 lifetime right now for mine, and I tow and cary some crazy loads with it) - and this car is in such a different class than the old CRX that you can't even see it from here. WAY more comfortable, larger in every dimension, significantly more power, and WAY WAY cleaner to operate. While I'm not a big fan of any gasoline vehicle, today's gasoline hybrids ARE significantly cleaner *and* more desirable than previous cars - even if they only get the same gas mileage. So we really have come at least one baby step better - even if the new CRX doesn't make it seem that way.

If gas mileage is what I want, and comfort/size is not an issue, then I'd get a scooter (well, really, I'd get an electric one... but I COULD get a gasoline scooter and get better GAS mileage is my point). So we really must compare apples to apples for any of this to make sense. With today's regulations in place, we can't make a car like the old CRX. It is always a tradeoff.

 

[jzmtl]

The bigger question here is why do people insist on driving at or above the speed limit when driving at or below the limit is proven to be significantly safer, cheaper and less polluting?

Or... how about another: Why do people drive alone in cars that can hold five... seven... even nine people? So many questions.

Because everyone have a comfortable speed on highway, drive at below or above that it feels very restricting (even without speed limit, people won't turn into speed demons like politicians would like you to believe, they'd cruise at their own comfortable speed). My comfortable speed in my jeep is 55~65, driving my parent's car it's 70~80.

As for the second question, beats me, my vehicle only sits two comfortably.

 

[Darell]

people won't turn into speed demons like politicians would like you to believe, they'd cruise at their own comfortable speed

Sometimes their own comfortable speed is *well* over 100 mph. Have you ever driven where there are no speed limits? I have! You never really know what people will do in a given situation if that situation is never presented.

 

[jzmtl]

Those are likely to be the ones who don't follow speed limit to begin with anyway. I've never driven in Germany but my friends who have told me people don't actually cruise at that speed, they burst for a while, then slow down, and repeat.

 

[Darell]

Hell, I know people in the US who cruise at 125mph for hours on end. Anyway... different people like to drive different speeds as you say. NO argument here.

 

[jzmtl]

Damn, no cops around? Most I'd do is 100, and that's only in a pack on rural highway, I'd like to keep my license. oo:

 

[Darell]

Damn, no cops around? Most I'd do is 100, and that's only in a pack on rural highway, I'd like to keep my license. oo:

Been through the Nevada desert? You can drive for quite some time, on arrow-straight highway - without seeing another vehicle... or gas station! Yeah, I'm pretty fond of my license as well. Has a great picture of me from half my life ago.

 

[LukeA]

You need to be at or near 100mph to reliably pass tractor trailers on I-65 outside Louisville. Those truckers are cruising at about 80-85, even those with oversize loads. The posted limit is 75, but on that road 75 is too slow to be safe.

On the Autobahn, most drivers go about 120-150 km/h (75-93 mph) in the no-limit sections.

 

[gadget_lover]

:thumbsup: Old Dinosaur Honda's that used low tech...technology.



Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-X#_note-0

Friend of mine has the original owners manual for his 1984 1.3L Honda CRX.
It quotes:
CITY 52 MPG
HYW 64MPG
AVG 58 MPG

He still owns the darn thing and even with 280K on the speedometer it gets a consistent 55 MPG overall average.

So you have to ask yourself what is the problem here.

25 years later they think 35 mpg is front page news ?

Not hardly friends.

But, as Paul Harvey might say, wiki forgot "the rest of the story".

The first generation CRX that got 50 MPG produced only 58 HP. That's OK for a small two seater on flat streets. It's not in the same league as a Prius that seats 4 adults and can haul groceries while climbing a 6% grade at 65 mph.

I don't have the emissions specs at hand, but it's quite likely that the first gen CRX also produces more pollution per mile than a modern hybrid. The original CRX did not have the sophisticated controls that the modern cars have.

We could build a hybrid today that mimics the capability of a 1980's econobox, and it will deliver outstanding mileage and ultra low pollution. Unfortunately, people slammed the 1st gen hybrids as being too slow ; only 105 MPH top speed with Zero -60 better than most trucks, vans and suvs. As a result recent hybrids are being 'tuned' for higher performance and lower mileage. We have a 450 HP Lexus hybrid, a Camry hybrid that's faster than the stock one and none get stellar mileage.

I'm hoping that the current price hikes provide the incentive necessary to build some killer commuter cars.

Daniel

 

[jzmtl]

Wet snow turned into freezing rain today, everything is covered by two inches of snow/ice/slushie mixture that's frozen solid. I was just thinking, man if I had solar panels, I'm so screwed.

 

[gadget_lover]

If you had solar panels you'd have some sort of backup. You'd have power from the grid, a battery bank or a generator. Some folks rely on wood as a backup. I can't do without the internet that long.

Daniel

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

In the meantime diesel is somewhere well beyond 3 bucks. My 8,000LB +- '03 Ram 2500 CTD has a lifetime average of low 19.

Pretty much the only trips I make that are not work related are 2 times a week about 12 miles each way to a bowling alley and maybe once a month about 80 miles each way to a poker game.

About 70% of the time I am alone in the truck (but it only holds two without major change anyhow).

I'm ALWAYS trying to improve the average, and I RARELY go faster than 67mph, coast down whenever possible, accelerate as if I'll bust an egg and otherwise drive for mpg!

 

[jzmtl]

If you had solar panels you'd have some sort of backup. You'd have power from the grid, a battery bank or a generator. Some folks rely on wood as a backup. I can't do without the internet that long.

Daniel

Yeah but unless you climb up the roof and scrape all that crap off all the solar panels without damaging them, it's down for a loooooong time.

But I suppose you could use a blow torch.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Had to switch to B10(10% biodiesel) recently so my fuel wouldn't turn to butter in the tanks. :mecry: Truck is noticeably louder and stinks more, although way less than it did on petrodiesel. I do believe I'll be adding a fuel tank heater and heated fuel lines to one of my tanks, then I'll be able to start on B10 and switch to B100 when things heat up. A bigger Espar heater should help this get started before I even crank up the truck.

:buddies:

 

[Darell]

man if I had solar panels, I'm so screwed.

I keep thinking, "man, if everybody keep burning fossil fuels, we're ALL PERMANENTLY screwed."

 

[Darell]

I don't have the emissions specs at hand, but it's quite likely that the first gen CRX also produces more pollution per mile than a modern hybrid.

The emissions are insanely higher when they're both driving. Many of the emissions from the old CRX are higher than the Prius even when the CRX is parked and the Prius is driving! (CO2 not withstanding).

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

But the CRX sure was a FUN little roller skate!!!

 

[Darell]

But the CRX sure was a FUN little roller skate!!!

Oh, I totally agree! For the time, they were super cars and had quite a following. My only exception was with the idea that we've somehow gone backwards with technology. Just isn't the case. We make cleaner, safer cars these days. The gas mileage still sucks.... but hey - we're getting more horsepower!

 

[Darell]

A bigger Espar heater should help this get started before I even crank up the truck.

:buddies:

Excuse my ignorance... what is an Espar heater? Sure seems like there should be some sort of high-tech (or at least chemical) way of solving the cold weather B100 butter issue!

 

[Brock]

An Espar heater is a small diesel fired coolant heater used on commercial or big diesels that can't plug in during cold snaps and don't have a good glow plug setup. Some trucks use them as an aux heater so they don't have to keep the engine idling. Even a couple of crazy TDI'ers have installed them to preheat their cars when they can't plug in.