I have a Gladius in the car and one I edc, and I really like this light. I can match the pin of the tailcap without looking in no time, trust me, it's a matter of practice. The light offers good throw, is waterproof and can be dimmed (with one hand), which allows for great runtime, it has a low battery indicator and thermal protection, can be locked out easily, and is pretty tough in my limited experience. What light comes close?
Gladius - darn it I'm just not impressed
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Lightraven
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,170
I have seen one of my coworkers carrying an Inova T2. I haven't seen anybody with a Gladius, probably because guys are more into motorcycles and guns where I work, than flashlights.
The question of what is tactical keeps coming up. Something designed with the intention of being used for combat is my definition. However, there isn't an agreed upon set of criteria.
From Flashlight Reviews, the T2 has a throw of 27. The Gladius, 55. This is the most important thing, to me, because I'm trying to see what the target is holding/hiding in his hands, and blind him at the same time. Throw is what does this. The Strion has a throw of 85. Of course, the Maxabeam is the ultimate, but try chasing somebody over a chain link fence with one of those.
I have only played with the Gladius briefly, but I would be very happy to get one as a gift.
The question of what is tactical keeps coming up. Something designed with the intention of being used for combat is my definition. However, there isn't an agreed upon set of criteria.
From Flashlight Reviews, the T2 has a throw of 27. The Gladius, 55. This is the most important thing, to me, because I'm trying to see what the target is holding/hiding in his hands, and blind him at the same time. Throw is what does this. The Strion has a throw of 85. Of course, the Maxabeam is the ultimate, but try chasing somebody over a chain link fence with one of those.
I have only played with the Gladius briefly, but I would be very happy to get one as a gift.
Irongen said:
Read something like the forum at strategos.com, especially things like building searches.
There are considerations that I never would have thought of, like "ghosting" with incans. Apparently one dominant _tactic_ is to "light and move," which means you briefly illuminate the space around you, then go lights out and move. Someone hiding is less able to follow your movements then. But if you have a bright incan, the bulb will glow a bit, or "ghost" while you start moving. All an observer has to do is follow your still-glowing ghost trail to know where you go.
I am probably mangling it, being EMS and not LE, but you get the idea. That is just one example of the use of a tactical light. You can see the benefit of an instantly blinding-to-black LED light -- no ghost trail. Apparently the strobe feature of the Gladius allows you to hide your movements and location even more.
It is a very deep and fascinating topic. Much more to it than just shining a light in someone's eyes.
Scott
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LowBat
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have one requirement for anything labeled "tactical", and that is the primary function must have a dedicated control. Just as I wouldn't want to pull the trigger on a handgun only to discover it's not going to fire; I wouldn't want to push the button on a flashlight in a high risk situation and not get a blinding white light. I'm not against a flashlight that could signal Batman or play Yankee Doodle Dandy or whatever else it's designed to do, but if I carry it at work the damn thing better only do one thing when I press the main button, regardless of what any sub controls may be set for. Some others may not share my opinion and prefer the whistles and bells and that's fine. I prefer to take those kinds of lights camping rather then to work.
Lowbat,
Just kinda interested in your comments. Does this mean you are in the 'tactical' field? Unfortunately it doesn't say what you do in your profile. From my perspective I bought the Gladius because I wanted a proven tactical light. The Team at Night Ops are some of the best in the business and their collective experience in the field means that the Gladius is inherrently designed to perform tactically.
I dont count my previous military experience as being valid to criticise products such as the Gladius because I served a long time ago and things move on. However, I know that is foolhardy to criticise those who do have knowledge and experience in their chosen field. In this respect I find it hard to understand how folks who aren't involved can criticise the Gladius with so much authority?
Doug
Just kinda interested in your comments. Does this mean you are in the 'tactical' field? Unfortunately it doesn't say what you do in your profile. From my perspective I bought the Gladius because I wanted a proven tactical light. The Team at Night Ops are some of the best in the business and their collective experience in the field means that the Gladius is inherrently designed to perform tactically.
I dont count my previous military experience as being valid to criticise products such as the Gladius because I served a long time ago and things move on. However, I know that is foolhardy to criticise those who do have knowledge and experience in their chosen field. In this respect I find it hard to understand how folks who aren't involved can criticise the Gladius with so much authority?
Doug
Robocop
Moderator, *Mammoth Killer*
In my opinion the light looks to be a great product with alot of effort involved in the design however I sometimes feel as if many makers go overboard at times.
Many Police I work with often buy the new products simply out of that "cool" factor and I am just as guilty. If it is the new model with all the new features then I just have to have it. It took me years to realize that simple was sometimes best and I did not have to have every new gadget that came along.
In my definition of tactical I would say to me this is a product that is rugged and will not fail when you need it most. I learned to spend money on the tools that I depend on and 2 of my tools are my handgun and my lights. The only thing I demand of my main duty light is that it work when I need it to and that it is bright enough to search a building or a car. I also like a little throw simply as this helps when searching woods or maybe alleyways.
This is just my opinion however I feel many get caught up with all the features and designs of lights. I personally do not want a light with an S.O.S or maybe a strobe feature and multiple levels of brightness do me little good in actual field use.
I have tried many different lights on duty and some of them had various cool features to play with. I can say that the only feature I used was the bright setting and the on and off action...thats all I needed. I really did like the look of the ARC-4 however I was dissapointed when the design got all caught up on those features and formats. I would have bought one had it not been for so much confusion but I simply could not use something like that in a tactictal field.
I know it sounds simple to the many who own certain lights but tactical is not always the product with the newest or most complicated design. I can say from experience that when you are taking fire or even pumped on adrenaline in a simple car chase or foot pursuit your fine motor skills come to a halt. Simple basic movements are even sometimes hard to perform.
This is why I like the Glock and H&K as a main duty weapon. Glock does it best as their product is bone simple and will shoot every time you point it and pull...thats it. Magazine swaps are a breeze with the mags even having a lip to grab easy and a large ramped opening to feed the mag back to the gun under stress. Glock did their homework and realized true combat events required a simple and effective weapon.
As far as lights go I honestly do not see the need for all the levels of brightness and low battery indicators,gps tracking,forward mounting rocket,mini torch attatchment,....ok that was suppose to be funny but you get my point I hope. I have several smaller lights carried easily on my person for low light needs. I do not want to fumble with my main light trying to lower the levels when I could simply un-snap my photon from my belt keeper and save all battery power for my main light.
I agree with lowbat when he says he takes some lights camping and some to work. I sit here nightly and play with so many lights and I will take several styles camping. When I put on my gun belt it is the most bright,basic and reliable lights for duty and the shelf queens stay home.
To sum this up I have been an officer for 9 years and each of those years has been on night shift. I have seen it all and yes been shot at and even stabbed. I can honestly say that I have depended on my light several times on duty and not once did I ever require a much lower level of light or a strobe or anything else other than pure light out the end of my light. I have noticed my main light to be too bright for searching the inside of a car as it makes a washout effect so I simply go to my softer back up light or a little Photon II.
I like the look of the Gladius and I am sure it would be a very tough light. If it becomes available with one bright mode only and a simple all aluminum body then I would think that to be a better choice for the field. I know some plastics are stronger than some metals...blah...blah...blah and I am not sure I understand the contact pin thing or whatever the problem is I have seen some read about. To any who know what the K.I.S.S method is I suggest that that is always a rule of thumb and has never let me down.
Many Police I work with often buy the new products simply out of that "cool" factor and I am just as guilty. If it is the new model with all the new features then I just have to have it. It took me years to realize that simple was sometimes best and I did not have to have every new gadget that came along.
In my definition of tactical I would say to me this is a product that is rugged and will not fail when you need it most. I learned to spend money on the tools that I depend on and 2 of my tools are my handgun and my lights. The only thing I demand of my main duty light is that it work when I need it to and that it is bright enough to search a building or a car. I also like a little throw simply as this helps when searching woods or maybe alleyways.
This is just my opinion however I feel many get caught up with all the features and designs of lights. I personally do not want a light with an S.O.S or maybe a strobe feature and multiple levels of brightness do me little good in actual field use.
I have tried many different lights on duty and some of them had various cool features to play with. I can say that the only feature I used was the bright setting and the on and off action...thats all I needed. I really did like the look of the ARC-4 however I was dissapointed when the design got all caught up on those features and formats. I would have bought one had it not been for so much confusion but I simply could not use something like that in a tactictal field.
I know it sounds simple to the many who own certain lights but tactical is not always the product with the newest or most complicated design. I can say from experience that when you are taking fire or even pumped on adrenaline in a simple car chase or foot pursuit your fine motor skills come to a halt. Simple basic movements are even sometimes hard to perform.
This is why I like the Glock and H&K as a main duty weapon. Glock does it best as their product is bone simple and will shoot every time you point it and pull...thats it. Magazine swaps are a breeze with the mags even having a lip to grab easy and a large ramped opening to feed the mag back to the gun under stress. Glock did their homework and realized true combat events required a simple and effective weapon.
As far as lights go I honestly do not see the need for all the levels of brightness and low battery indicators,gps tracking,forward mounting rocket,mini torch attatchment,....ok that was suppose to be funny but you get my point I hope. I have several smaller lights carried easily on my person for low light needs. I do not want to fumble with my main light trying to lower the levels when I could simply un-snap my photon from my belt keeper and save all battery power for my main light.
I agree with lowbat when he says he takes some lights camping and some to work. I sit here nightly and play with so many lights and I will take several styles camping. When I put on my gun belt it is the most bright,basic and reliable lights for duty and the shelf queens stay home.
To sum this up I have been an officer for 9 years and each of those years has been on night shift. I have seen it all and yes been shot at and even stabbed. I can honestly say that I have depended on my light several times on duty and not once did I ever require a much lower level of light or a strobe or anything else other than pure light out the end of my light. I have noticed my main light to be too bright for searching the inside of a car as it makes a washout effect so I simply go to my softer back up light or a little Photon II.
I like the look of the Gladius and I am sure it would be a very tough light. If it becomes available with one bright mode only and a simple all aluminum body then I would think that to be a better choice for the field. I know some plastics are stronger than some metals...blah...blah...blah and I am not sure I understand the contact pin thing or whatever the problem is I have seen some read about. To any who know what the K.I.S.S method is I suggest that that is always a rule of thumb and has never let me down.
Robo
I admire guys like you who put it on the line for the good of the majority. I dont have that experience and so take your views seriously. However, my point is (and remains) that the Gladius isn't about making bells and whistles for the sake of it but rather is the culmination of lots of real world research to add more to a light then simply main beam. The Gladius, despite what some say, can be used just like a normal flashlight. The options (and they are options) are there for those who may want or need them. Once the Gladius has been played with a few times (and I mean a least two sets of batteries) then the simplicity, or if desired, complexity, is easy to comprehend.
Personally I find the idea of more than two lights totally pointless. The fact is that unless you are constantly replacing batteries then you wont know for sure that your lights are going to be there for when you need them anyway? For easily carried lights I ensure that I have a primary and backup which both use the same type of battery. This means that I needn't worry about a malfunction leaving my in the dark but also that in a pinch I can swop batteries over to whichever light I choose. The benefits of the Gladius are that by reducing the power of the main beam to a lower level when required you wont need a lower powered light. The Gladius's low battery indicator will give you ample time to be prepared to go to a backup or to change batteries. Something that very few other lights do and making the need for more than one backup unnecessary. Finally the Strobe. Do you need it? Want it? I don't know and I wouldn't presume to lecture anyone of your experience about its possible benefits. However, the fact is, that it is another option that some want and it has been shown to be very effective in the right operators hands.
I have enjoy having the use of a proven product (and there are 100,000 Gladius out there) that are performing as well as anticipated and gives me the options of a strobe for self defense in untoward situations.
Although the KISS principle is always going to have its place dont forget that sometimes having more than one option might save your life just as easily?
Doug
I admire guys like you who put it on the line for the good of the majority. I dont have that experience and so take your views seriously. However, my point is (and remains) that the Gladius isn't about making bells and whistles for the sake of it but rather is the culmination of lots of real world research to add more to a light then simply main beam. The Gladius, despite what some say, can be used just like a normal flashlight. The options (and they are options) are there for those who may want or need them. Once the Gladius has been played with a few times (and I mean a least two sets of batteries) then the simplicity, or if desired, complexity, is easy to comprehend.
Personally I find the idea of more than two lights totally pointless. The fact is that unless you are constantly replacing batteries then you wont know for sure that your lights are going to be there for when you need them anyway? For easily carried lights I ensure that I have a primary and backup which both use the same type of battery. This means that I needn't worry about a malfunction leaving my in the dark but also that in a pinch I can swop batteries over to whichever light I choose. The benefits of the Gladius are that by reducing the power of the main beam to a lower level when required you wont need a lower powered light. The Gladius's low battery indicator will give you ample time to be prepared to go to a backup or to change batteries. Something that very few other lights do and making the need for more than one backup unnecessary. Finally the Strobe. Do you need it? Want it? I don't know and I wouldn't presume to lecture anyone of your experience about its possible benefits. However, the fact is, that it is another option that some want and it has been shown to be very effective in the right operators hands.
I have enjoy having the use of a proven product (and there are 100,000 Gladius out there) that are performing as well as anticipated and gives me the options of a strobe for self defense in untoward situations.
Although the KISS principle is always going to have its place dont forget that sometimes having more than one option might save your life just as easily?
Doug
zespectre
Flashlight Enthusiast
Gentlemen, awesome dialog we're having here, seriously!
Now if I could gently steer this topic back just a bit to the origional point I was trying to cover which was this...
If you own or have used a Gladius, how significant are the points of concern I listed in the very first post.
I bet we could have an entirely different thread on WHAT options people feel are useful for the Gladius to have (like the ability to hold it in your teeth :naughty: )
I'm only trying to nudge the topic back in line because I'm still fence sitting about getting one :candle:
Thanks
Now if I could gently steer this topic back just a bit to the origional point I was trying to cover which was this...
If you own or have used a Gladius, how significant are the points of concern I listed in the very first post.
I bet we could have an entirely different thread on WHAT options people feel are useful for the Gladius to have (like the ability to hold it in your teeth :naughty: )
I'm only trying to nudge the topic back in line because I'm still fence sitting about getting one :candle:
Thanks
zespectre said:
My concerns over the tailcap breaking while in lockout mode are minor, especailly after seeing Ken's data on it. I'm not concerned much over the battery replacement procedure either.
I do find the adjustable levels, and strobe to be something useful. I'd buy another Gladius, in Tan probably, if I could afford it.
No problems for me with the tactile feedback. I can do all one handed, near perfect, except lodkout, I use two hands for that otherwise it's about a 50/50 one handed.
I'm gentle with most lights, the Cerakote wearing off is not a big deal, either. Plus, I like the way it feels and that it's different.
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Zee
Yeah, good point about going off topic, gee, don't you just love it when that happens!............LOL!
Anyway FWIW I'd buy one. Just make sure it has HA111. The Light has more good ponts than bad and its functionality has to be experienced in order for you to understand it. IMHO the plastic tailcap issue is not worth worrying about. Sure if it is dropped directly onto its tail in lockout mode then it may break or malfunction but out of 100,000 out there only one or two are known to have experienced that problem and the warranty from BHI has taken care of it.
The forced mating of the tailcap to body has damaged a few Gladius, but when the correct technique is learnt the issue is relatively minor and shouldn't occur. The ceramic coating has been superceded now by HA111 and shouldn't be any more of any issue than any other HA111 coated light.
Night-Ops are working on a redesign for the current tailcap and are also to bring out (eventually) a flangeless version. It is also rumoured that there will eventually be a clip released as an accessory but for obvious reason Night-Ops/BHI are keeping quiet about details and release dates.
At the end of the day only you can justify spending your money on a Gladius but if you get one and decide it's not for you I don't think you'll have any problem off loading it to someone else.
Doug'
Yeah, good point about going off topic, gee, don't you just love it when that happens!............LOL!
Anyway FWIW I'd buy one. Just make sure it has HA111. The Light has more good ponts than bad and its functionality has to be experienced in order for you to understand it. IMHO the plastic tailcap issue is not worth worrying about. Sure if it is dropped directly onto its tail in lockout mode then it may break or malfunction but out of 100,000 out there only one or two are known to have experienced that problem and the warranty from BHI has taken care of it.
The forced mating of the tailcap to body has damaged a few Gladius, but when the correct technique is learnt the issue is relatively minor and shouldn't occur. The ceramic coating has been superceded now by HA111 and shouldn't be any more of any issue than any other HA111 coated light.
Night-Ops are working on a redesign for the current tailcap and are also to bring out (eventually) a flangeless version. It is also rumoured that there will eventually be a clip released as an accessory but for obvious reason Night-Ops/BHI are keeping quiet about details and release dates.
At the end of the day only you can justify spending your money on a Gladius but if you get one and decide it's not for you I don't think you'll have any problem off loading it to someone else.
Doug'
LowBat
Flashlight Enthusiast
dougmccoy,
I don't consider myself tactical at all; I've had too many knee injuries, my left ear rings constantly, my vision is clouded with floaters, my HMO says I'm borderline obese, and I'm just plain getting old.
In my youth I worked for DOJ's CAMP program and later as a regular cop for the City of San Diego. I've gone through countless classes which I admit were many years ago, and no doubt new ideas and techniques have developed. I've seen some ideas come and go and in my opinion most of the wiz bang stuff just doesn't cut it when the chips are down. I've been skeptical of the Gladius before it was released like some others. There is a thread here somewhere on CPF with those comments.
My opinion is the simplest tool to get the job done the better. Why add complexity unless there is a real benefit, for you are asking for an increased likelihood that something will go wrong. If adding a strobe feature to a flashlight is a big benefit then perhaps it may be worth the extra complexity. I haven't used one (except for the little Photon Freedom) and it would take some real convincing that most of the fanfare isn't over-hyped. The first time a device failed because it was in the wrong mode in a tense situation would be enough for most veterans to chuck it, or perhaps wrap tape around it to lock the setting in place. If I was a rookie again carrying such a light, I know any seasoned FTO would tell me to get a real flashlight the first time I failed to quickly shine it on a suspect because for whatever reason some setting was wrong.
The counter argument to my opinion is training training training. Great if you have the luxury of continuous training, but that isn't what happens in reality for those that have to work most of the time. And even if we have countless hours of training, we can still mess up, and sometimes it's with the things we use all the time when the adrenaline starts pumping. Ever throw the car into park before coming to a stop, or call out a pursuit only to discover you grabbed the PA mike which you couldn't hear over the siren? I can laugh at some of the idiot things that I've done and what I've seen others do, as long as we can walk away and learn from it.
So weigh the options yourself; are the extra feature(s) worth the added complexity and increased possibility something may not work the way you want it to when you really need it? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
*Sorry for going off topic again, I was just answering Doug's question this time.
I don't consider myself tactical at all; I've had too many knee injuries, my left ear rings constantly, my vision is clouded with floaters, my HMO says I'm borderline obese, and I'm just plain getting old.
In my youth I worked for DOJ's CAMP program and later as a regular cop for the City of San Diego. I've gone through countless classes which I admit were many years ago, and no doubt new ideas and techniques have developed. I've seen some ideas come and go and in my opinion most of the wiz bang stuff just doesn't cut it when the chips are down. I've been skeptical of the Gladius before it was released like some others. There is a thread here somewhere on CPF with those comments.
My opinion is the simplest tool to get the job done the better. Why add complexity unless there is a real benefit, for you are asking for an increased likelihood that something will go wrong. If adding a strobe feature to a flashlight is a big benefit then perhaps it may be worth the extra complexity. I haven't used one (except for the little Photon Freedom) and it would take some real convincing that most of the fanfare isn't over-hyped. The first time a device failed because it was in the wrong mode in a tense situation would be enough for most veterans to chuck it, or perhaps wrap tape around it to lock the setting in place. If I was a rookie again carrying such a light, I know any seasoned FTO would tell me to get a real flashlight the first time I failed to quickly shine it on a suspect because for whatever reason some setting was wrong.
The counter argument to my opinion is training training training. Great if you have the luxury of continuous training, but that isn't what happens in reality for those that have to work most of the time. And even if we have countless hours of training, we can still mess up, and sometimes it's with the things we use all the time when the adrenaline starts pumping. Ever throw the car into park before coming to a stop, or call out a pursuit only to discover you grabbed the PA mike which you couldn't hear over the siren? I can laugh at some of the idiot things that I've done and what I've seen others do, as long as we can walk away and learn from it.
So weigh the options yourself; are the extra feature(s) worth the added complexity and increased possibility something may not work the way you want it to when you really need it? Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
*Sorry for going off topic again, I was just answering Doug's question this time.
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Ken J. Good
Enlightened
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Messages
- 590
From my limited perspective there are quite a few sub-themes or underlying driving forces in the later portion on this thread. Wanted to toss my hat in the ring on these issues despite the original post/theme of this thread.
Resistance to change
It is known phenomenon that humans in general resist change. I have been dealing with this my entire career in this field. There are quite simply 2 kinds of folks in my world-view; the Can-do's and the Can't-do's. Inevitably no matter what the proposed change, there will be a consistent muster of folks that will jump up and tell you why (chapter and verse) the proposed change will not, cannot work. Can-do's spend a quite of bit of their time moving around and jumping over obstacles strewn about by the Can't-do's. I have also note there seems to be a large percentage of insecure folks in the Can't-do camp. They are more comfortable there because they are surrounded by a much larger crowd. The Can't do's are generally louder than the Can-do's who seem to be pressing on more quietly. Human history has chronicled this dynamic for the beginning. Just my observation.
Imagine a world without color, hue, texture, variance, discovery potential, challenges, and new solutions to age-old problems.
If you step back and think about, humans really crave and need change. Put somebody in a sensory deprivation chamber and note what happens over a relatively short period of time. So we need change, but the funny thing is we resist change individually and corporately.
I will wholeheartedly agree that all changes are not necessarily good changes. Many are bad. History has also taught us this lesson. Therefore a healthy, analytical skepticism is also in order.
Sometimes leaving the relative comfort of the pack exposes you to a lot of crossfire; in this regard I can speak from experience. Sometimes in takes somebody willing to cross the field, risk much in order to establish new ground for the not so daring.
Leaving the flashlight world for second, if you tote a gun for a living you will note the incredible almost fanatical defense of this shooting technique/system or that system. After 20 something years of standing on the sidelines, I have noted that most of these people are myopically focused on the very small percentage of an actual armed encounter. As they have entrenched themselves in the defense of one thing or another, they have also imprisoned themselves mentally and physically in terms of what really can be done in the environment. Is it generally termed being "hard-headed".
K.I.S.S. Principle
This is generally invoked when addressing a more complex system. Yet it can be quite an obstacle to actual battlefield superiority. Let's take the principle to the Nth degree and see where it leads.
Imagine that you are faced with having to dispatch an enemy at twilight. It is a one-on-one engagement to take place on relatively open ground. Both opponents are to start out at a distance separating each other by 300 yards. You can initially see your advesary. Each participant has on their respective tables a few weapons to choose from.
One combatant is constrained entirely by the KISS Principle, the other is free to choose his weapons based on the environmental considerations and the training he has invested in.
On the table are 4 weapons, a rock, a knife, a 9mm Pistol (round in the chamber and 15 rounds in the magazine), & an 5.56mm M4 Carbine (red-dot reticule with a 100 yard-zero, one round in the chamber, 28 rounds in the magazine, visible aiming laser & a SF 500 B Model WeaponLight).
What would you choose? One set of tools requires an entire set of skill and knowledge to effectively employ and is exponentially more complicated, well the other is Simple….
Would you rather go onto the modern battlefield in Cessna 172 or an F/A 22 Strike Fighter?
Does anybody actually believe at this point in history that the United States of America is the dominant Super-Power because we followed the KISS Principle?
You see in my opinion the KISS principle is a strong consideration but should never be the dominant consideration in my opinion in the world of professional arms.
Skill at arms, means exactly that…Skill. Skill is the result of quality training. No getting around that part of the equation.
Just because one does not know how to leverage the extra capabilities of a more capable tool does not necessarily make that tool less useful to the more skilled wielder of that tool.
In terms of design, a challenge is to pack more in yet keep the user-interface useful in the environment it the tool was intended to be used in.
Least Common Denominator Argument
This is generally presented when a system requires more training than folks are willing to invest to use a better approach. Nothing I can do there. It is a fact of life in professional circles. It separates the ones who are collecting a pay check and the ones who understand that to be proficient in all the tasking does take continuous training. It is a lifestyle, not a part time endeavor.
Many, many have given up on pushing the cart uphill in this regard. They just give up and roll down hill with everybody else.
There is a fancy psychological principle called the "Rosenthal Effect" that basically captures the concept that if you set the standard low…All members of that group gravitate to that standard. If you set the standard high, all members of that group gravitate to that standard. It is a deeply ingrained human trait that we are not necessarily consciously aware of.
I for one, attempt to encourage people to hold their ground, get strong and then push back against the throng who hold the theory that we should accept the status quo because it is simply too difficult to enact change within the bureaucracy.
Different – Therefore "Over-hyped"
What has convinced me of the efficacy of Strobing light in terms of dealing with non-compliant individuals is the empirical data associated with the effects of Strobing light on the human perception system and the actual field feedback we are getting on a regular basis since the release of the Gladius.
Not to mention the years of force-on-force simulation that lead to the packaging of a strobe in this type of light.
All that being said, as I have said to many who have handled the Gladius in person who have decided they want a very simple light - ON/OFF that is it.
Who am I to tell you this is the light for you? Everybody who carries weapon for a living is responsible for being able to press their strategy on opponents. If the Gladius is too complicated for that individual, then it is too complicated for that individual.
Select a light that goes ON & OFF, as there are a myriad of them to choose from. In fact our line will have quite of few of them.
The Gladius brings unique capabilities in one package to those that understand its advantages and can leverage them under duress.
I will say this with a fair degree of confidence or arrogance depending on how you read what I am saying:
The Gladius and what it represents will change the direction of "tactical flashlights" from this point forward. It might not be today or the next few months, but I can already envision the day where the introduction of an easy to access strobe capability (whether in visible light, laser or in the IR spectrum) tool will be remembered as another step up the ladder.
Resistance to change
It is known phenomenon that humans in general resist change. I have been dealing with this my entire career in this field. There are quite simply 2 kinds of folks in my world-view; the Can-do's and the Can't-do's. Inevitably no matter what the proposed change, there will be a consistent muster of folks that will jump up and tell you why (chapter and verse) the proposed change will not, cannot work. Can-do's spend a quite of bit of their time moving around and jumping over obstacles strewn about by the Can't-do's. I have also note there seems to be a large percentage of insecure folks in the Can't-do camp. They are more comfortable there because they are surrounded by a much larger crowd. The Can't do's are generally louder than the Can-do's who seem to be pressing on more quietly. Human history has chronicled this dynamic for the beginning. Just my observation.
Imagine a world without color, hue, texture, variance, discovery potential, challenges, and new solutions to age-old problems.
If you step back and think about, humans really crave and need change. Put somebody in a sensory deprivation chamber and note what happens over a relatively short period of time. So we need change, but the funny thing is we resist change individually and corporately.
I will wholeheartedly agree that all changes are not necessarily good changes. Many are bad. History has also taught us this lesson. Therefore a healthy, analytical skepticism is also in order.
Sometimes leaving the relative comfort of the pack exposes you to a lot of crossfire; in this regard I can speak from experience. Sometimes in takes somebody willing to cross the field, risk much in order to establish new ground for the not so daring.
Leaving the flashlight world for second, if you tote a gun for a living you will note the incredible almost fanatical defense of this shooting technique/system or that system. After 20 something years of standing on the sidelines, I have noted that most of these people are myopically focused on the very small percentage of an actual armed encounter. As they have entrenched themselves in the defense of one thing or another, they have also imprisoned themselves mentally and physically in terms of what really can be done in the environment. Is it generally termed being "hard-headed".
K.I.S.S. Principle
This is generally invoked when addressing a more complex system. Yet it can be quite an obstacle to actual battlefield superiority. Let's take the principle to the Nth degree and see where it leads.
Imagine that you are faced with having to dispatch an enemy at twilight. It is a one-on-one engagement to take place on relatively open ground. Both opponents are to start out at a distance separating each other by 300 yards. You can initially see your advesary. Each participant has on their respective tables a few weapons to choose from.
One combatant is constrained entirely by the KISS Principle, the other is free to choose his weapons based on the environmental considerations and the training he has invested in.
On the table are 4 weapons, a rock, a knife, a 9mm Pistol (round in the chamber and 15 rounds in the magazine), & an 5.56mm M4 Carbine (red-dot reticule with a 100 yard-zero, one round in the chamber, 28 rounds in the magazine, visible aiming laser & a SF 500 B Model WeaponLight).
What would you choose? One set of tools requires an entire set of skill and knowledge to effectively employ and is exponentially more complicated, well the other is Simple….
Would you rather go onto the modern battlefield in Cessna 172 or an F/A 22 Strike Fighter?
Does anybody actually believe at this point in history that the United States of America is the dominant Super-Power because we followed the KISS Principle?
You see in my opinion the KISS principle is a strong consideration but should never be the dominant consideration in my opinion in the world of professional arms.
Skill at arms, means exactly that…Skill. Skill is the result of quality training. No getting around that part of the equation.
Just because one does not know how to leverage the extra capabilities of a more capable tool does not necessarily make that tool less useful to the more skilled wielder of that tool.
In terms of design, a challenge is to pack more in yet keep the user-interface useful in the environment it the tool was intended to be used in.
Least Common Denominator Argument
This is generally presented when a system requires more training than folks are willing to invest to use a better approach. Nothing I can do there. It is a fact of life in professional circles. It separates the ones who are collecting a pay check and the ones who understand that to be proficient in all the tasking does take continuous training. It is a lifestyle, not a part time endeavor.
Many, many have given up on pushing the cart uphill in this regard. They just give up and roll down hill with everybody else.
There is a fancy psychological principle called the "Rosenthal Effect" that basically captures the concept that if you set the standard low…All members of that group gravitate to that standard. If you set the standard high, all members of that group gravitate to that standard. It is a deeply ingrained human trait that we are not necessarily consciously aware of.
I for one, attempt to encourage people to hold their ground, get strong and then push back against the throng who hold the theory that we should accept the status quo because it is simply too difficult to enact change within the bureaucracy.
Different – Therefore "Over-hyped"
What has convinced me of the efficacy of Strobing light in terms of dealing with non-compliant individuals is the empirical data associated with the effects of Strobing light on the human perception system and the actual field feedback we are getting on a regular basis since the release of the Gladius.
Not to mention the years of force-on-force simulation that lead to the packaging of a strobe in this type of light.
All that being said, as I have said to many who have handled the Gladius in person who have decided they want a very simple light - ON/OFF that is it.
Who am I to tell you this is the light for you? Everybody who carries weapon for a living is responsible for being able to press their strategy on opponents. If the Gladius is too complicated for that individual, then it is too complicated for that individual.
Select a light that goes ON & OFF, as there are a myriad of them to choose from. In fact our line will have quite of few of them.
The Gladius brings unique capabilities in one package to those that understand its advantages and can leverage them under duress.
I will say this with a fair degree of confidence or arrogance depending on how you read what I am saying:
The Gladius and what it represents will change the direction of "tactical flashlights" from this point forward. It might not be today or the next few months, but I can already envision the day where the introduction of an easy to access strobe capability (whether in visible light, laser or in the IR spectrum) tool will be remembered as another step up the ladder.
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Just to throw in a few more comments,
This light is one of my favorites and does it all. If you want it to always be bright when you turn it on, you can set it to do that. Checking the mode can be done one handed by feel by turning it two clicks either direction so you don't have to look at it while you do it.
The plastic tailcap is tough and a non-issue. Lexan, Nylon 6,6, nitrolon, and kydex are plastics, but you don't hear people worried about breaking these.
The tailcap pin is not rocket science, and simple to use. It takes me twenty times as long to get spare batteries and make sure they are in the proper orientation than putting the tailcap on. It really doesn't take practice to do either, at least no more than using a flashlight.
The finish.... If you want something to look pretty, then don't use it. I use my stuff and it looks according. The finish on my Type III anodized lights that I use often get beat up as well. The lights I rarely use typically look new, odd.
Durability, like anything, test it out before you depend on it.
I have to admit, one thing I really like is that the batteries are insulated by a plastic sleeve inside the light. I turned the light on the other day, and it was blinking low battery until the batteries warmed up to give better light output. At very cold temperates (-40F and colder) the plastic/magnetic switch are easier to operate than pushbutton and twisty caps of surefire lights.
This light blows away the Surefire U2 at a similar price range in every category except for maybe total lumens (5watt vs 3 watt).
What I like best is that the light's features can be used together, you can turn the light on really low, and click it over to high power momentary. The light will stay on that really low mode untill you trigger the intense light.
This light is one of my favorites and does it all. If you want it to always be bright when you turn it on, you can set it to do that. Checking the mode can be done one handed by feel by turning it two clicks either direction so you don't have to look at it while you do it.
The plastic tailcap is tough and a non-issue. Lexan, Nylon 6,6, nitrolon, and kydex are plastics, but you don't hear people worried about breaking these.
The tailcap pin is not rocket science, and simple to use. It takes me twenty times as long to get spare batteries and make sure they are in the proper orientation than putting the tailcap on. It really doesn't take practice to do either, at least no more than using a flashlight.
The finish.... If you want something to look pretty, then don't use it. I use my stuff and it looks according. The finish on my Type III anodized lights that I use often get beat up as well. The lights I rarely use typically look new, odd.
Durability, like anything, test it out before you depend on it.
I have to admit, one thing I really like is that the batteries are insulated by a plastic sleeve inside the light. I turned the light on the other day, and it was blinking low battery until the batteries warmed up to give better light output. At very cold temperates (-40F and colder) the plastic/magnetic switch are easier to operate than pushbutton and twisty caps of surefire lights.
This light blows away the Surefire U2 at a similar price range in every category except for maybe total lumens (5watt vs 3 watt).
What I like best is that the light's features can be used together, you can turn the light on really low, and click it over to high power momentary. The light will stay on that really low mode untill you trigger the intense light.
LowBat said:
Won't happen.
With factory default settings, the three switch settings are bright momentary, bright strobe, bright constant on. None of those put you in danger.
I guess you could grab the light having put it in lockout mode, but then you might just as easily try to draw a gun with no round chambered.
Nothing wrong with arguing that a simpler light is better, but the Gladius was specifically designed to avoid the problem you mention.
In other news. . .
I told my wife about my little indiscretion, my Gladius order. She wants to see the strobe. She says if it convinces her that it might buy a split second or two to get into her truck and away from a bad guy, she wants one. Gotta love a chick who digs tactical gear!
We'll see when it arrives.
As for the tailcap issues, I am a little concerned about breakage, but I am willing to listen to Ken's claims that other lights are more delicate. I'll be curious to see the light when it arrives.
The battery replacement does not bother me. I have pretty much resigned myself to the idea of carrying a second light as a backup. The Gladius' low-battery warning negates my concern about needing a change at a bad time. In fact, I would say that, even if it required a screwdriver to change batts, the whole MO of going for the second light at the warning flashes negates the concern.
Another topic I don't know if anyone has thought of is maybe unique to firefighters. I was out working in my insulated heavy work gloves tonight, using some of my SureFires. Kind of a pain. The L4 with McGizmo switch was best, because the "S" cap essentially has a flange around the end -- easier to grab, easier to turn on (twistie action). I have the strong impression that the Gladius will be extremely easy to use with fire gloves. The flanges should be very easy to grab, and I suspect the selector will be easy to operate too. I'll just set it to constant on and smack it to activate.
Scott
oklalawman
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 235
I am all for anything that makes my job easier or safer. I think the things that
most companied dont realize is that most police officers dont make the type of money to buy the latest technology. The list price of the Gladius is $250.
The higher end Surefires go higher than that. Some of the depts in my area the officers/deputies gross $2000 a month. Take out taxes, insurance so forth
a $250 flashlight comes up to be a lot of money on equipment. That is why in my area use see a lot of Stingers. Cheap durable and rechargable. Probably 95% of the purchasers would never use most of the Gladius' features. It is overkill for most. My only problem is that we work in an area with a lot of wide open spaces and an led just can not throw. So that means this is even an more specialized light.
I applaud Strategos for there development and execution. When they come out with a cheaper incandescent I will take a look at that.
most companied dont realize is that most police officers dont make the type of money to buy the latest technology. The list price of the Gladius is $250.
The higher end Surefires go higher than that. Some of the depts in my area the officers/deputies gross $2000 a month. Take out taxes, insurance so forth
a $250 flashlight comes up to be a lot of money on equipment. That is why in my area use see a lot of Stingers. Cheap durable and rechargable. Probably 95% of the purchasers would never use most of the Gladius' features. It is overkill for most. My only problem is that we work in an area with a lot of wide open spaces and an led just can not throw. So that means this is even an more specialized light.
I applaud Strategos for there development and execution. When they come out with a cheaper incandescent I will take a look at that.
kukula
Enlightened
After reading all the Gladius threads in the forums, I came to one conclusion. That I am gonna get one this week. In OD
Why? Coz I like the gladius. It is prolly the most high tech light atm. And more than that, its coz of Mr. Ken Good. His personalized service, integrity, honesty and fortitude sold me the product. I just love to deal with a company who shows real concern for the clients. And who hears out customer recommendations. Now I know that if I buy a gladius, no matter if what happens, there will be someone to look after me. Nice job Black Ops:goodjob:
Btw I started by getting a Black Ops carrier pouch for my M6 now. The gladius wil have to wait till the weekend
Chris
Why? Coz I like the gladius. It is prolly the most high tech light atm. And more than that, its coz of Mr. Ken Good. His personalized service, integrity, honesty and fortitude sold me the product. I just love to deal with a company who shows real concern for the clients. And who hears out customer recommendations. Now I know that if I buy a gladius, no matter if what happens, there will be someone to look after me. Nice job Black Ops:goodjob: Btw I started by getting a Black Ops carrier pouch for my M6 now. The gladius wil have to wait till the weekend
Chris
I always thought that the KISS priciple meant that the most simple tool to do the job is the best tool as it reduces the rate of error and also reduces the strain on the limited human resources, mostly brain power. So it is basically a simple choice between "too much" and "not enough", leading eventually to the right decision, the KISS decision.
So, the choice of tool would depend on the job to be done and not on the tool itself, which makes your example flawed as you aren't presenting any adequate choices for the other side. You could have introduced a fifth weapon that could have been way too complex and would have left the combattant with a disadvantage should he have used it. Your example tries to ridicule the KISS principle by introducing an incorrect example with invalid choices and rethorically leads the reader onto a path where he doesn't seem to have a choice ... which you are withholding from him in this way.
A KISS user isn't a fool and doesn't like to be pictured as one. When there is superiority to grasp, be it on a battlefield or somewhere else, one will take it if the tool to get it won't cause negative effects that render the potential gain void.
Now ... if the Gladius is too complex or just right for the use it is intended for I do not know. Not my department as I am a civilian and won't pollute the discussions of those who know with my statements.
bernhard
Ken J. Good
Enlightened
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Messages
- 590
Hyperbole: A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
My example was clearly presented as an example of absurdity. What I am pushing back on is the idea that the KISS principle reins supreme.
Given a choice between complex and getting the job done
&
Simple and getting the job done it would be wise to choose simple.
Given a choice between simple and not getting the job done
&
Complex and getting the job done it would be wise to choose complex
Given a choice between simple and getting most of the job done
&
Complex and getting all the job done…Well there it starts getting grey in my opinion.
My example was clearly presented as an example of absurdity. What I am pushing back on is the idea that the KISS principle reins supreme.
Given a choice between complex and getting the job done
&
Simple and getting the job done it would be wise to choose simple.
Given a choice between simple and not getting the job done
&
Complex and getting the job done it would be wise to choose complex
Given a choice between simple and getting most of the job done
&
Complex and getting all the job done…Well there it starts getting grey in my opinion.
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Longbow
Enlightened
Really? !00,000 in use? Friends thats 20 million dollars worth of product!!! In Ken's dreams maybe.
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